Scooter hard to crank

[waterboysh]

Ok, so I've brought this up recently in another thread, but I've been told by 2 local mechanics now that it may be something different. Here's my problem.

The scooter is hard to crank. It typically takes 7 - 10 attempts to crank and it will only crank if I am giving it a little throttle while cranking. For the next 15 minutes or so, the scooter will not idle. If I try and let it, then it will die. I have adjusted the idle, it doesn't help. However, once you'd think the engine is warm (after a minute or 2) I still can't go anywhere because if I give it enough throttle to get over about 7 MPH then it bogs down and dies if I don't release the throttle fast enough. I will usually do laps around my apartment's parking lot at 3 - 4 MPH to help the engine warm up faster. Once it's very warm (like I said, about 15 minutes) it will all of a sudden let me give it gas without bogging and dying on me.

When I posted here about it, everyone was like "oh it's your valves, it has to be the valves." While I'm sure my scoot could probably benefit from a valve adjustment, I have taken some of the plastics off this morning and my valve cover is very hard to get to without removing the vast majority of the plastics, mainly because some of the pieces that are right in front of the cover are bolted directly to the frame. I could probably still do it, but I really don't want to take the scooter half apart. So I decided to call the place I bought it from and one other mechanic I see good ratings for a lot. Both of them said the same thing. Without me telling them I thought it was the valves they both said they thought it was a vacuum line issue. When I mentioned the valves, both mechanics said it was possible, but not likely on a scooter that has only gone 400 miles.

So what do y'all think is more likely? The dealer said it would likely not be covered under the warranty either way, but that it MIGHT be depending on what the problem is. They would charge me about $65. The other place said it would be about $45. I'm torn between taking it to the dealer (who is always backed up. Last time they had my scoot I didn't get it back for a week) and taking it to a place I know will be cheaper and gets good reviews.

[ootscoot]

Vacuum line issues or cracked intake manifold issues don't always go away when warmed up, Tight exhaust valve sounds more likely...

[richardthescooter1]

I think it could be one of four things, 1. your enricher not working or it nt totally sealed or the passage could be plug, 2. could be your piloit jet or passage way pluged up, or 3. air filter, if it super dirty full of dirt or oil. 4. the a/f ratio screw needs adjusted.

Another thing to check is the daiphragm in top of carb, look for holes or rips.

[edfr]

Q1,After it is nice and warmed up how does it IDLE nice or not, when you come to stops lights stop signs etcc, do you have to keep some throttle or not?

Q2,Any bogging or hesitation giving it throttle after it is nice and warm ?

If none of the above it is not your valves.

Problem I see is only when it is cold.
Which points to a fuel delivery problem when cold bogging opening the throttle. Have you checked your ENRICHER to see if it is working?
Before you go start it when cold take the ENRICHER OFF and see if the ENRICHER is RETRACTED or EXTENDED.

THIS IS RETRACTED=Feeds Extra Fuel For Cold Starts:



THIS IS EXTENDED=Shuts Off The Extra Fuel after 3-5 minutes.



So lay it on its side put your THUMB over the hole and hold it there and start the scoot.
Keep your thumb on the hole and watch the ENRICHER and see if it starts to EXTEND out.

Put the Enricher back on and now you need to adjust your Fuel Ratio Mixture on the Carb.
Do this AFTER the motor is nice and warm not when it is cold.

I put this step by step together because it is a lot to keep typing over and over.
Lefty

Follow this procedure to tune the carb: Take your time 1/4 turn to much in either direction makes a big difference.

ADJUSTING YOUR FUEL RATIO MIXTURE:

YOU WANT THE HIGHEST RPMS OUT OF THE AIR RATIO MIXTURE SCREW:

Start your scoot and Get The Engine Nice and Hot about 5 minutes so that the Enricher IF it has one is no longer Allowing Extra Fuel to come in. Then do the following to fine tune the Fuel Ratio Mixture:

FUEL RATIO SCREW:

FIRST TRY RICHENNG THE FUEL MIXTURE FROM ITS CURRENT SETTING:

1. RICHEN THE FUEL RATIO MIXTURE:

Turn the Fuel Mixture Screw COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/4 of a turn and wait 10 seconds to let the engine catch up with the new setting.

a. If the RPMS go up REPEAT #1 UNTIL the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE(then go to b).

b. TURN the Fuel Ratio Mixture Screw CLOCKWISE 1/8 and that should be your highest Fuel Ratio Mixture setting—GO TO #3.


******If on the FIRST 1/4 TURN from the STARTING Position IN #1 ABOVE the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE , turn the Fuel Ratio Mixture Screw Back the 1/4 turn to the Starting position and wait 10 seconds until the engine catches up -- GO TO #2 ******


2. LEAN THE FUEL RATIO MIXTURE:

Turn the Fuel Mixture Screw CLOCKWISE 1/4 of a turn and wait 10 seconds to let the engine catch up with the new setting.

a. If the RPMS go up REPEAT #2 UNTIL the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE(then go to b).

b. TURN the Fuel Mixture Screw COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/8 and that should be your highest Fuel Ratio Mixture setting—GO TO #3.


IF YOU GOT TO THIS POINT AND NOT INSTRUCTED TO GO TO #3 THAT MEANS THERE WAS NO CHANGE IN RPMS FROM DOING #1 or #2 ABOVE, IT IS TIME TO CLEAN THE CARB:
YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR PILOT JET AND PASSAGE AND AIR PASSAGES AND THEN START FROM #1 AGAIN.

3. IDLE SPEED SCREW:

The Idle Speed Screw on a Carb that are on most 4Ts you will find on the right side on the THROTTLE CONTROL WHEEL. It is the screw with a SPRING on it.
To Lower the IDLE you turn it COUNTER CLOCKWISE to Raise the IDLE you turn it CLOCKWISE.

If after adjusting your Fuel Ratio Mixture your idle is to fast Turn the IDLE SPEED SCREW COUNTER CLOCKWISE. For the 50s-150s they like to idle around 1500-1800rpms, for the 250s+ they like to idle from 1800-2000 rpms, pick the smoothest idle with the rear wheel not spinning ---GO TO #4.

4. TEST YOUR ADJUSTMENTS:

Now give the Throttle a QUICK twist and the RPMS should climb up quickly without hesitation or bogging and come down to where you set your Idle at---GO TO #5.

5. NOW take a ride and try it out, the Fuel Ratio mixture may need a tweak in either direction now that the motor has a load on it.

The tweak will be minor maybe a ¼ turn richer or leaner IF it acts up with a load---GO TO #6

6. When it acts up BACK OFF the throttle about ¼ of an INCH AND HOLD IT THERE:

a. If the motor speeds up it is LEAN you need to richen it up a little.

b. If the motor settles down and or stumbles and then settles down it is RICH you need to LEAN it out a little.
GO TO #5 AGAIN.

Problems with the IDLE:

1. Give the throttle a quick twist:

A. If the rpms drop below idle speed, then recovers (or stalls), it is RICH —Turn the Fuel Mixture Screw Clockwise ¼ turns at a time and go to #1.

B. If the rpms do not drop quickly to the idle speed but hang and drop slowly it is LEAN —Turn the Fuel Mixture Screw Counter Clockwise ¼ turns at a time and go to #1.

[waterboysh]

Feb 8, 2013 15:59:45 GMT -5 edfr said:

Q1,After it is nice and warmed up how does it IDLE nice or not, when you come to stops lights stop signs etcc, do you have to keep some throttle or not?

Q2,Any bogging or hesitation giving it throttle after it is nice and warm ?

The answer to Q1 is kinda. If I'm going on a short trip, like a mile or two, then yes I'll still have to give it some gas when stopped or it'll die. Once it's gone a few miles and gets not just warm, but hot then no, it'll usually idle.

It actually does this as well even when it's not cold. Like for instance when I stopped at the auto parts store to get a feeler gauge, I was in the store for about 15 minutes. Even though the scooter was still warm, it took 2 attempts to crank it and I still had problems with it wanting to die at idle. It went away much faster, but it was still there. The problem is just way more pronounced when it's cold.

The answer to Q2 is also kinda. On long rides (I took a 15 mile one way trip the other day) it'll occasionally stutter. I thought I was running out of gas, but when I checked I still had gas in the tank. Probably 1/4 of a gallon still. I've also lost top end speed since I got the scooter (I bought it the end of Nov). I used to be able to get up to about 58 and now it struggles to get over 50.

It's a pretty new scooter. It only has 400 miles on it.