fed up with my DC CDI

[grassulo]

So after installing two 35 watt HID kits on my bike, they look great, and I can finally see where I'm going out here in the country where we have few street lights and lots of deer.

Then my fun got spoiled because my battery isn't charging, I can just barely get 13.5v at around 2000RPM, the HID's pull a lot more current than the stock bulbs, but the DC CDI does too. I'd like to find out which wire is power to it so I can measure the current and calculate how many watts It's actually pulling, I've seen online it has been said the thing can pull as much as 20!

So I'm going to be gathering up the parts to swap the system over to an 11 pole stator and flywheel and AC CDI, right now the bike has a 12 pole stator and as previously mentioned a DC CDI. The current stator and regulator/rectifier is 3 phase so part of the swap should be easy.

But there are going to be a lot of challenges:

First, can I just run the CDI power right off the harness coming from the big coil on the stator, and just cut and cap off the DC wires that go to the box it has now?

Second, I've heard AC CDI's have a normally open kill switch while DC ones are normally closed, if that is the case I can modify my current one with an SPDT Bosch type relay.

Third, I have to make sure the stator and flywheel will fit my QJ scooter, I sent Scooter Elements a question (on a popular internet auction site we all use) regarding it's measurements and I will be ordering the parts for this swap from him if it measures the same as the 12 coil and will fit.

I may get a performance AC CDI box, but gut feeling tells me they may be a gimmick and the stock type one may be my best bet.

[yosemite]

The Bottom wire on the 2 Plug on your CDI is the POWER wire. If it is DC with the KEY on your meter should be reading 12v which is straight from your battery.
Sam

[Deleted]

I can tell you the racing CDI's are definitely not a gimmick.
The coils, on the other hand, don't do much for me.

[EPAhater]

Sorry , your CDI has nothing to do with the power on your system. If you have a 12 pole stator to go to a 11 pole will be a down grade of available power. You've got a problem at 13.5 volts, all 12 pole systems with a quality battery will easily put out 14.0Vdc +.

To even have a chance to run 35W HIDS you need a good 12 to 14AH rated battery. Two 35W HIDS = 70W = 5.83 amps of pull. You could have a weak coil on your stator and or a bad wire connection on the R/R losing charging amps.

BTW the DC type CDI will still run a scooter at 10.5 Vdc and the CDI pulls less than 0.50W.

Only advantage to a AC type CDI is you can start the scooter with a dead battery and a kick starter if your scooter has one.

If you go to a 11 pole stator the system will have the wire to go to the CDI and you'll have to buy a AC type and also rewire the R/R configuration along with putting a relay on the light system. 11 coil systems use a 7-pin R/R.

So I'm going to be gathering up the parts to swap the system over to an 11 pole stator and flywheel and AC CDI, right now the bike has a 12 pole stator and as previously mentioned a DC CDI. The current stator and regulator/rectifier is 3 phase so part of the swap should be easy.


May not be so, most 12 pole stators have a completely different hole pattern than the 11 pole and the flywheel is larger.

You didn't mention what scooter and engine, most 12 pole stators are on GY-6B engines, if that's your case then you'll be pressed to fine a apples for apples change out.

It may be difficult to find a apples for apples change out, most 12 pole stators are larger and have a bigger flywheel and are a two bolt type mount and hole spacing is 42mm




All the two bolt 11 coil stators I've seen are 41mm hole spacing:




Here are some specs on a 11 coil stator that is also a different size and use a 3-bolt mount:

•Diameter: 87mm
•Width: 30mm
•Bolt Hole Spacing: 41mm
•Bolt Hole Diameter: 6mm

I'm thinking the 12 coil stator is 88mm OD.


They put 12 pole stators on a scooter for a reason, more power.

[qwertydude]

Your problem is not the CDI it's that you're drawing too much power with two 35 watt HID's. There's no getting around that. You need a better charging system. Switching to an 11 pole and AC CDI won't get you that.

What power you save on the CDI is dropped by the fact you've got less poles on the stator.

I mean you can try converting to all LED running lights and brake lights but 70 watts is just too much draw regardless. If you try running that much power long term also, you're asking to fry your stator. I suggest running 1 55 watt HID light bulb at a time. It should be plenty it was plenty enough for my GS500F HID with cutoff conversion, no need to blind oncoming traffic with two HID bulbs especially if they don't have a proper metal shielded cutoff.

At most I know with an LED tailight conversion you can actually run a 55 watt HID, but only just. And only if you consistently run at higher top speeds, pure stop and go city urban city riding will eventually drain your battery. I know on the Buddy 125 it could push a 55w halogen so a 55 watt HID is possible, except you need consistent high speed running to ensure the battery stays charged especially because the high starting current drains quite some capacity from the battery.

[tvnacman]

I think you can get some boost by using larger wires .

John

[rockynv]

70 watts is a very heavy lighting load on a 150cc bike. Most would have 2 15 watt or 1 35 watt lamp for the headlight to stay within the limits of the bike. DC or AC your not leaving much to run the bike after the headlights. DC is the higher performance and more accurate CDI to me. Consider reducing other lamp loads using LED's including those in the instrument cluster. Most bikes with 2 35 watt headlamps have a 250 to 300 watt charging system however that would be a big load on a 150cc reducing overall performance and fuel economy.

[prodigit]

Just switch your tail lights to LED.
The math is very simple,
Regular headlight = 20W
Tail light =15W
Tail LED = 5W
You save 10W on tail, which you can put to the front headlight; getting it upto 30W.
35W is 5W above the limit,
You probably will have the same low voltage, but at a much lower RPM (say 1700)

There's not much more you can do to improve light.

Btw, if you get 13,5V at 2k RPM, then your battery is charging.
The only issue is when you're not above 2k RPM (say, stationary on a stop light, or when starting the bike).
A LED tail light might do the trick, or get a lower power headlight.

I know a lot of guys like the bright white ones, you can get them at lower watts too.
(search for 25-30W bulbs if they are available).

If you have 2 headlights, change one to a lower power one, LED strips sometimes help too, though are not as bright.

[wutzthedeal]

I put in an 8AH battery and run two 35W bulbs for headlights, plus I typically have my heated coffee mug plugged in and my cell phone charging almost constantly. I can go ride for several hours and when I get back, if I plug the Battery Tender Jr. in, it's back to a green status within a few minutes. I've had no problems and like the OP, finally I can get some warning about upcoming road hazards at night; super bright on high beams. May or may not be advisable, but is doing fine.

[lovemy2strokes]

You guys realize its not just the constant draw but the initial firing of the ballast that kills the battery...
You can change to all LEDs but ultimately you need a larger battery, changing the wires will only go so far as the resistance of a 20 gauge compared to a 16 gauge at 10 feet is only .05% less. If theres not the amperage to push the power larger wires also will do nothing but slow it down.
Ok heres a lay version of how electric works...

Think of electricity as a river.
Amps are the flow of the river - the push-current
your wires are the size of the width of the river- how much can be flowed through
Voltage is the river it self
wattage is the end result of all these combined.
ohms law

V-volts
---------------- =I-amps-current
R-resistance

how to figure gross wattage

V-voltage x I-Amps-current = W-watts

how to figure net wattage-actual wattage capable

Amps-I (60a) x resistance-e
--------------------------- = W=Watts
V-Voltage

If the flow is too low the river will run dry and all the width of the river will leave you nothing left.


What you need to do is add a capacitor inline with the charging system if you can not get a bigger battery to fit. What I did with my Kawasaki KLRs is I use 2 10,000mfd, 25 volt electrolytic capacitors (about thumb size) , a packet of 1/4 inch 14 guage ring terminals and a couple feet of wire for a few cents shy of $11, this is more than enough to run 2 55 w HIDs, the 300 w alpine amp I use for my stereo system, hand warmers 15 a draw, and still charge the battery. I use a 12AH battery and all LEds even gauge cluster lights. I think most scoots use 4-8 AH though the caps will help you can use 4 or 6 instead of 2.

[rockynv]

You do need pressure and flow combined to charge a battery. Still if the flow out is greater than the flow in you are fighting a loosing battle.

What is the stator rated at on the KLR 400/500 watts?

Most GY6 150cc scooters are maxed out based on lighting load with the high beams on while stopping. Using the horn while hitting the brakes on many will be beyond the capacity of the system to keep up.

I do understand the desire for brighter which is why I chose the 250 I ride now. 300 watt charging system with two 55 watt headlamps. My daughter when I follow her home refers to them as lasers burning a hole in the back of her head.

[tvnacman]

I can offer some help to beef up the harness. If your interested send me a rpm.

John

[lovemy2strokes]

The KLR is rated at 300 but weve only seen 242W at 3700 rpms, there is a 400w upgrade also. Factory claims 17a and 300 w.

[rockynv]

300 watts is still adequate even on a fuel injected bike. With a carb you ditch the load of the injector pump and control system leaving more available for lighting etc.

[wutzthedeal]

Jan 21, 2013 5:46:11 GMT -5 lovemy2strokes said:

Ok heres a lay version of how electric works...

Wow did that bring back memories. I learned electronics in the Air Force, then ended up teaching and becoming department head of electronics in a career school. One thing I can say personally is that I'd rather go through 3 $30 batteries per year than to hit a single deer. My little 3AH factory one was a joke, but the 8AH replacement is getting the job done well.

[lovemy2strokes]

Jan 22, 2013 5:22:14 GMT -5 rockynv said:

300 watts is still adequate even on a fuel injected bike. With a carb you ditch the load of the injector pump and control system leaving more available for lighting etc.

Fuel injected or not on most scooters we have an auto choke/enrichener that is constantly drawing Amps while running. Then Add DC cdis and high power coils and you just doubled or near tripled the constant voltage use and initial start up voltage which plays havoc with your battery reserves.

Vast majority of stators have a separate lighting coil and this is the problem when using high wattage piaa or hid lights. Its the initial cycle of the ballast that hurts being as your lighting coil is set up for 35w or 1.5 A and the ballast needs 200 w +/- to fire up. Sure theyre only 35,55,70,110 w while running but its the initial draw. You can change to what ever stator you want but unless you do something about the winding on the lighting coil its pointless and youre fighting an uphill battle. Or you can get a huge battery or caps like I said and run them from there, you can also link your coils together at the base windings to multiply the output.
Theres 20 ways to skin a cat you just have to do it right or you get to replace a lot of parts.

[tvnacman]

The answer is heaver wire .

John

[lovemy2strokes]

Im sure these things could use a little better gauge wire for sure too. The stuff thats in these are hair straind thin and its going partially bald.