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Post by danielm on Jan 2, 2013 15:41:06 GMT -5
So I've been getting the scooter bug for awhile now. I'm a complete scooter noob but I've been trying to learn everything I can first. I read the starter guides here, I think the best bet for me is a 125-150cc. I'm 5'10" and with clothes+helmet I'll be around 200 lbs. I don't want to take it any farther than work (5-6 miles, no highways) or the gym, 8 miles, sub 55mph roads. I originally was looking at a 50 but I figured between my size and the fact that there are a few decent hills even on my way to work with blind turns and no shoulder with a 35mph posted limit but most go faster, I might get smeared and I'm not really a fan of that. My planned purchase is in around 3-4 months or so. I'm going to take the PA motorcycle safety course as soon as it opens back up, I think in March. Budget wise I figured around 1200ish. It looks like that puts me in around the Chinese scooter territory. I'm pretty mechanical, but not really engine mechanics so I'd like to find something really reliable. If I could pick it up locally or have it shipped where I don't have to rebuild half of it when I get it it would be ideal. I've been looking on craigslist for a bit, I don't have the funds available yet but just trying to get a feel for it. I find almost all 50s on there and most people seem to be asking above retail, somehow. There has been a guy trying to sell a new'ish scoot on there for awhile for 1800 that I know I've seen for 1200 or less shipped online. Style'wise I like the more retro look, I was looking into what Valley Scooters had available and there was a dealer like 10 mins from me. I went there, they only had 1 50 and weren't planning on getting more scooters. It was this model. www.scootersus.com/motorinoamore50.htmlI thought I really liked the style but when I saw it in person it seemed way too wide for my tastes. Thinking maybe something more along these lines would be awesome. www.scootersus.com/bmsv9.htmlBudget is important, reliability just as much. How are the resale value on this range of scooter? I'm just thinking a few years down the road if I wanted something bigger or different it would be nice to recoup some of the costs towards a new one. Locally the dealers seem to mostly sell the higher end models like Honda, Vespa, Yamaha, which would be awesome but are out of my price range. With that in mind, a Piaggio 125 or 150 is about double my budget but if I could finance it and then have it be worth near the same value in a couple years for a sale it might we worth thinking about. Anyone have any suggestions with the above budget, style, relativity they can share? Thanks! |
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Post by skuttadawg on Jan 2, 2013 15:43:57 GMT -5
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Post by danielm on Jan 2, 2013 15:52:08 GMT -5
How do the warranties work on something like this that gets shipped to you? Would I have to find a local shop to diagnose stuff and they send parts or something?
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Post by inuyasha on Jan 2, 2013 16:03:31 GMT -5
Hi A 2 stroke 50 would work fine for your needs, Look into Benelli Jonway Kymco Genuine and Aprilia for a 4 stroke 150 i would recommend a Puma Cycles scoot www.pumacycles.com/Falcon-150CC.htmlThey make a topnotch product at an affordable cost Take care and ride safely Yours Hank |
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Post by danielm on Jan 2, 2013 16:15:44 GMT -5
I considered a 2 stroke 50 at first. We're moving around the same time I'm planning on getting the scooter and there are a few 40 mph roads there and I don't want to spend a ton of time WOT without anything left really if that makes sense. Unless I misunderstand the base differences between a 2 and 4 stroke, and I very well might, wouldn't the top end of a 50 be around the same whether its a 2 or a 4? There is an older yamaha vino classic 50 2 stroke at a local dealer for 999 that I had dismissed because I figured I'd get blown off the road on anything but a little back street.
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Post by prodigit on Jan 2, 2013 16:25:07 GMT -5
Do know that your scoot, if you ship it to your home, needs delivery charges, and some websites charge billing charges.
Also, you need to pay for a tag, and taxes when you register your scooter to your name. Tag and taxes for a $1000 scoot, are about $275.
You need a motorcycle endorsement (usually ~$250), and you need a helmet, boots, vest, gloves, and goggles, and possibly a large jeans pants for the endorsement class (you can get all of that for ~200 on Amazon).
So just be aware that all this is around $600 additional to your scooter!
A 50cc scoot does not need a motorcycle endorsement, and in many places you just need goggles, or a helmet with a face shield.
Aside from the lower price of the scoot, you also pay less taxes.
A 2 stroke is a lot faster in acceleration, usually top speed is around 50MPH, where as many 50cc 4 strokes top out around 40-45MPH.
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Post by inuyasha on Jan 2, 2013 16:39:47 GMT -5
I considered a 2 stroke 50 at first. We're moving around the same time I'm planning on getting the scooter and there are a few 40 mph roads there and I don't want to spend a ton of time WOT without anything left really if that makes sense. Unless I misunderstand the base differences between a 2 and 4 stroke, and I very well might, wouldn't the top end of a 50 be around the same whether its a 2 or a 4? There is an older yamaha vino classic 50 2 stroke at a local dealer for 999 that I had dismissed because I figured I'd get blown off the road on anything but a little back street. Hi A 2 stroke puts out nearly double the hp of the same size 4 stroke engine on a 50 cc its 3bhp(4t) versus 5 bhp (2t) Also they can rev higher my 4t redstreak redlines at 8,500 rpms my aprilia at 12,000 rpms Those attributes make the 2t much quicker off the line and with a higher topend then a 4 t of the same size motorscooterguide.net/Articles/2StrokeOR4Stroke/2StrokeOR4Stroke.htmlTake care and ride safely Yours Hank |
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Post by danielm on Jan 2, 2013 16:54:10 GMT -5
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Post by danielm on Jan 2, 2013 16:56:27 GMT -5
Oh, as for the earlier post. The rider safety course is free in Pennsylvania and they give you the M class license at the end since you need your permit to start it. I was surprised to find out it was completely free myself. I understand the safety gear is a fee I need to budget for, and I surely will as I don't want to be riding around recklessly.
Even if I ended up with a 2 stroke 50 I'd still take the course just for the experience.
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Post by snugglebunny on Jan 2, 2013 17:05:02 GMT -5
Do know that your scoot, if you ship it to your home, needs delivery charges, and some websites charge billing charges. Also, you need to pay for a tag, and taxes when you register your scooter to your name. Tag and taxes for a $1000 scoot, are about $275. You need a motorcycle endorsement (usually ~$250), and you need a helmet, boots, vest, gloves, and goggles, and possibly a large jeans pants for the endorsement class (you can get all of that for ~200 on Amazon). So just be aware that all this is around $600 additional to your scooter! A 50cc scoot does not need a motorcycle endorsement, and in many places you just need goggles, or a helmet with a face shield. Aside from the lower price of the scoot, you also pay less taxes. A 2 stroke is a lot faster in acceleration, usually top speed is around 50MPH, where as many 50cc 4 strokes top out around 40-45MPH. ^^^^hes wrong on alot of points^^^^^^^^^ 1st in PA all 50's need to register, tagged, inspected, must have M/C endorsement. if you dont have a valid MSF course or been M/C endorsed for 2 years, you MUST wear a helmet To register my 150 in PA 3 years ago it cost $38 per year for reg. more if you get instant registration and plate w/ sticker right then,Instead of that paper sticker. No need for instant, the only prob is if you dont have a sticker on your plate--you might get pulled over. But since you have NO back window to attach it to. You can just show 'em, But thats lost time being pulled over, getting you name ran thru. etc i went the 3 weeks till i got a sticker and never got pulled over. LUCK OF THE DRAW 1A. if you tell the Notary your paying $500 and get the person to agree to that, taxes are like $30 2, All M/C's ,scooters etc must be inspected--my place charges $9 / year Find the lowest price. 3, yes you must wear some kind of eye protection, in PA it can be sunglasses. 4. you dont NEED any other protective gear. GOOD IDEA but not regulated. as for a choice for you your a bigger guy etc etc i would recommend a 150cc. i CRUISE at 50mph all day long and have alot extra to get me out of trouble. The only road you can NOT ride on PA is the turnpike or if you happen to have a superhighway close by and its restricted. Legally i can ride on most highways. if the posted speed is 60 that is the TOP speed you allowed. NOT what you must do. In PA if its 55mph or higher you must be able to travel 40MPH. Which i can do for hours and hours until i run outa gas. WHERE IN PA ARE YOU  |
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Post by snugglebunny on Jan 2, 2013 17:08:17 GMT -5
one more piece of advise do a PDI before you ride. heres a good link x1scooters.com/pdi.htmlP.S im a old woman, not mechanically inclined at all do all my own maintenance. its pretty easy if you follow the tutorials on the home page, asks questions, respectfully,people will be MORE than willing to help there a few other forums where there intelligent scooter people also so any problems you might encounter mechanically, someone on any of the forums can talk you thru it step by step HOPE I HELPED |
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Post by danielm on Jan 2, 2013 17:24:14 GMT -5
Yep, you need plates, registration, etc, no matter what size. For under 50cc it seems you don't need the M class license. www.pamsp.com/FAQ.aspx#b17Ahh, the old PA notary trick, hah. The last car I sold years ago we went to transfer the title and we agreed to say it was 500 dollars, the car wasn't that expensive to begin with but whatever. We got there and the woman at the counter said, "you should just say you sold it for a dollar, that way you only pay 6 cents!" err.. OK! As for the areas I'd ride, I really want to stick to local roads. I see the people on the turnpike on sportbikes ripping around and I get away from them in our car, just not for me. I'm in Media, suburban Philadelphia. |
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Post by snugglebunny on Jan 2, 2013 17:29:40 GMT -5
Yep, you need plates, registration, etc, no matter what size. For under 50cc it seems you don't need the M class license. www.pamsp.com/FAQ.aspx#b17Ahh, the old PA notary trick, hah. The last car I sold years ago we went to transfer the title and we agreed to say it was 500 dollars, the car wasn't that expensive to begin with but whatever. We got there and the woman at the counter said, "you should just say you sold it for a dollar, that way you only pay 6 cents!" err.. OK! As for the areas I'd ride, I really want to stick to local roads. I see the people on the turnpike on sportbikes ripping around and I get away from them in our car, just not for me. I'm in Media, suburban Philadelphia. YEA SOME NOTARIES KNOW THE DEAL OTHERS DONT Philly??? better buy some good chains and locks lol |
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Post by danielm on Jan 2, 2013 17:44:40 GMT -5
Well, suburban Philly. I can't even find my way in or out of that place, it just seems when people ask where I'm from it's easier to tell them an area they've heard of before. I really don't go in the city, even in a car! haha Not a city guy at all!
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Post by turtle8 on Jan 2, 2013 17:51:53 GMT -5
IMHO, regardless of the power advantage of a 2-stroke 50cc versus a 4-stroke, I wouldn't believe there isn't enough headroom in hp that a 150cc has. Say you are riding on a 45mph road on a 50 2T that maxes out at 50mph, is the power reserve to enough to get you out of trouble if need be? How does it feel to ride at 45mph on a small, light 50? My final point, in my state, the law limits 50cc mopeds and scooters to 35mph. Riders have been known to get pulled over for going faster than 35mph. So, one would still need a motorcycle endorsement to exceed that speed whether or not it is a "moped".
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Post by inuyasha on Jan 2, 2013 18:58:00 GMT -5
IMHO, regardless of the power advantage of a 2-stroke 50cc versus a 4-stroke, I wouldn't believe there isn't enough headroom in hp that a 150cc has. Say you are riding on a 45mph road on a 50 2T that maxes out at 50mph, is the power reserve to enough to get you out of trouble if need be? How does it feel to ride at 45mph on a small, light 50? My final point, in my state, the law limits 50cc mopeds and scooters to 35mph. Riders have been known to get pulled over for going faster than 35mph. So, one would still need a motorcycle endorsement to exceed that speed whether or not it is a "moped". Hi I feel quite comfortable riding any of my small scoots anywheres in my state We have no speed limit restrictions for 50s in my state and my aprilia and also my modded redstreak can keep up with the flow of traffic and easily exceed the posted limits www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=810&q=430480Take care and ride safely Yours Hank |
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Post by skuttadawg on Jan 2, 2013 19:06:14 GMT -5
I have a CFMoto dealer minutes away and all parts and labor were free including headlight and kickstand that broke . CFMoto has a FULL warranty even electronics with unlimited miles . The very first service at 300 miles must be dealer done or the warranty is no good Oh yes a 2T 50 is lots of fun even more with a BBK and pipe I love my Jonway Magnum its a beast and blast to ride and make 4T riders 2T envy . Here is a list of some 2Ts 49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=genchat&action=print&thread=2765If you look around there is some Rocketa 2Ts out there . |
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Post by snugglebunny on Jan 2, 2013 20:11:52 GMT -5
Well, suburban Philly. I can't even find my way in or out of that place, it just seems when people ask where I'm from it's easier to tell them an area they've heard of before. I really don't go in the city, even in a car! haha Not a city guy at all! same with me. i live in rural/ surbs but its so much easier to say Pittsburgh |
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Post by adventroad on Jan 4, 2013 13:42:34 GMT -5
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Post by danielm on Jan 4, 2013 17:24:42 GMT -5
I really think I'm still leaning towards a 125-150 but not 100% positive yet. If I order a Chinese scooter online I would probably go through Valley Scooters.
I'm still half tempted to check out one dealer near me. They cost a lot more but I'd have to look into what the financing costs would run and the resale value. Even if it cost 2x my current budget but was super reliable and could sell for a very good price if I want to move to something bigger in a few years it might be worth running the numbers.
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Post by skuttadawg on Jan 4, 2013 18:58:30 GMT -5
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Post by rockynv on Jan 4, 2013 21:52:01 GMT -5
... I'm still half tempted to check out one dealer near me. They cost a lot more but I'd have to look into what the financing costs would run and the resale value. Even if it cost 2x my current budget but was super reliable and could sell for a very good price if I want to move to something bigger in a few years it might be worth running the numbers. That is why I went with the Aprilia 250. Financing was within my $100 a month budget, insurance came to $150 a year, resale value was good and reliability was good enough to qualify for a 4 year unlimited mileage parts and labor warranty extension on the entire bike not just the engine. The monthly savings on fuel come to over three times the amount of the monthly payment. If you have to ability to ride 300+ days a year the annual savings will be much greater then for those with a 90 or 120 day riding season. |
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Post by skuttadawg on Jan 5, 2013 1:30:48 GMT -5
If your not a wrencher or have knowledge of how they work and how to do repair and service then I strongly suggest getting a GOOD scooter with a warranty . CFMoto , Genuine and Kymco have 2 year warranties where even Honda only has a limited 1 year warranty on engine and CVT only . Most barely have a 30/30 ( 30 miles or 30 minutes whichever comes first ) LOL . Seriously many are a month to 90 days with some B&M shops may offer 6 months but limited . After buying a POS TaoTao and researching scooters after I bought that lemon , I learned that its better to pay the extra upfront to get a scooter that will need less servicing , instant upgrades or repairs too soon . I love riding and would hate to push a scooter home which is why I have roadside assistance .
The CFMotos are LC which is liquid cooled and my Echarm has never went up past a 3rd of the temp gauge even in the peak of summer . Mine has EFI like the Glory but some like at the link above have a carb instead of EFI . After reading all the horror stories about boogered carbs , clogged jets , bogs , having to adjust the fuel/air mixture and idle speed , EFI sounded like less of a hassle . Not only is EFI superior in every way like reliability , MPG , no need to bother tuning as the ECU makes changes when needed and my scooter really rockets away from any 150 . The CFMotos only have electric start with no kickstart . I asked my dealer why is that . He said his truck does not have a kckstart . They use a 12 pole stator where most are 6 or 8 poles and do not put out as much power . I hate cabled drum brakes since they squeak , inferior stopping ability , may more parts to remove to service than disc brakes , and cables stretch and break . Drum brakes are a deal breaker for me . All of scoots are F&R disc brakes .
I would only suggest getting a scooter with 12 to 16 inch wheels as the 10s are too small and a shorter body which I had to slump over where my longcase ( those with 12s or larger wheels ) I can sit upright . The 16s is what I consider a crossover as they ride and handle more like a motorcycle . To me IMO true scooter experiance is best with "doughnuts " ( fat tires ) like 130/60/13s on my 2T . The shorter the wheel the faster you can turn and corner but the get unstable at fast speeds so it feels almost like stunt riding . With the 13s I can go with both hands off the grips in a modest turn . 16s are better on the open road but not for tight turns as good as 13s . The wider tires I go over uneven road surfaces and cracks with ease where my 16s would shimmy and even high wind the 13s were stable the the 10s ( older scooter I had ) and 16s be unstable .
Regardless which size wheels you get I suggest having the wheels and tires balanced as it removed alot of shake and wobble at high way speeds as its smooth up to 60 and after that the wimpy rear shocks have it skeery up to 75 MPH
I do like having twin headlights on my 2T , Jonway Magnum with handsome boy body
I really enjoy that my Echarm has EFI insted of a carb and would suggest you look into a scooter with EFI
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Post by rockynv on Jan 5, 2013 5:54:57 GMT -5
On the 15"/16" there are differences too and you can't lump them all together. The Aprilia and other higher tier scoots when you get into the 250's and above you are getting 120/70 or wider up front and 130/80 or wider in the back making them handle highways like a small cruiser motorcycle but have increased manuverabilty in the city and on winding roads.
Got stuck riding across I4 from Orlando to Tampa at midnight running from a hurricane in August 2012 and the windgusts and rain were no problem for the bike even at 70+ mph.
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Post by danielm on Jan 5, 2013 19:53:30 GMT -5
Still unsure how the warranty works with shipped in items like this. If I get a 12 or 24 month warranty on a scooter I can bring it to any dealer or shop and its covered? I know there aren't specifically Znen or CFMoto dealers near me.
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Post by snugglebunny on Jan 5, 2013 20:05:07 GMT -5
go to the website and ask,
print the email answer
most need a M/c / scooter shop
to do the warranty work,
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Post by rockynv on Jan 6, 2013 5:00:07 GMT -5
Still unsure how the warranty works with shipped in items like this. If I get a 12 or 24 month warranty on a scooter I can bring it to any dealer or shop and its covered? I know there aren't specifically Znen or CFMoto dealers near me. On most Chinese bikes it is parts only with telephone or email support so you can DIY the warranty repairs or hire your own mechanic to do the work. Znen only covers labor on the Puma bikes you buy from their dealer network. Not sure on the CfMoto. That is why after shopping the local Puma and clone dealers I on a lark checked out the Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Vespa, Piaggio and Aprilia dealers. Found I could get a 250 there for only a few hundred more than the clones and there was no question on the warranty. |
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Post by prodigit on Jan 6, 2013 5:04:25 GMT -5
IMHO, regardless of the power advantage of a 2-stroke 50cc versus a 4-stroke, I wouldn't believe there isn't enough headroom in hp that a 150cc has. Say you are riding on a 45mph road on a 50 2T that maxes out at 50mph, is the power reserve to enough to get you out of trouble if need be? .... I find that largely irrelevant. On scooters you don't need power to get out of trouble, you need a nifty little bike that's quick in turning. Most trouble happens sideways (someone tries to ram you), or frontal (someone stops in front of you). On large motorcycles, you need power to try to escape, but on a scooter it's much easier to just steer away from the danger zone. That being said, I've NEVER ever, in my entire life, lacked power to get out of trouble; partly because I knew how much power I had, and never tried to get into trouble if I could do otherwise. For instance, the whole 'power'-thing could be said about bicycles as well. They have less than 2BHP, most accelerate slower than a 50cc scoot, and when you want to turn into a street with a lot of oncoming traffic, it's better to wait and let the traffic pass, than trying to get ahead of them, cycling your ss off to try not to have someone rear-end you. And I've never heard anyone say to a cyclist 'you should consider a motorcycle, because you don't have enough power to get out of trouble'. I find it to be a lame salestrick to make people believe they need more, when in real fact, what they have is more than plenty. Just about anything above a 4 stroke 50cc is good enough for riding around! Ow, and if you fear you will want something bigger in a few months, then my suggestion is to get a motorcycle additional to your scooter later on! I had a BMS260 (257cc Fuel injected), and though it did about anything I wanted to do, I did not feel very happy cruising at 7k RPM on the highway. Now I cruise at 4-5k RPM on the highway with my motorcycle, and do anything else with the scooter. Even a 250 will feel limited, if you're out for 'top performance'. But if you're fine with the minimum, and don't spend a lot of travel on 50+MPH roads, you can be fairly secure with a 4 stroke 100+cc engine. I ride with a 4 stroke 50cc scooter, peak at 45-48MPH, sometimes even surpassing 50MPH when the wind is right, to do most my joy-riding  In most cases a 4 stroke 50cc can keep up with traffic, just as long as there aren't too many hills, or stop lights. One thing I dislike about 4 stroke 50cc bikes (even the tuned ones), is their acceleration from 25MPH to 40MPH is so ridiculously slow, that cars get annoyed driving behind you... 0-25MPH usually is ok. A 100cc is essentially twice the power, thus twice the acceleration! A 4 stroke 100cc would be the best of both worlds for a single person. Great gas mileage, ~60MPH, good acceleration! Any 100+cc engine keeps up just fine in city traffic, and can even occasionally go on the highway! |
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Post by danielm on Jan 7, 2013 12:35:56 GMT -5
Thanks again for all the input from everyone.
As for the power issue, I'm not in any way looking for "top performance" if so I wouldn't really be looking in the 50-150cc range. I'm looking for fun, reliable and fits into my budget. My only issue with the 50s are that at nearly 200 lbs, and more with helmet, bag, etc, I would just need to know that I could get where I need to go and keep up with traffic. Like yesterday I drove to the gym, 45mph road with hills. I don't have to do 55 on it, but I don't know if a 2T 50 could even get me there going with traffic and maintaining the speed limit.
I've ridden dirt bikes and ATVs back in the day, I even ride a bicycle to the trolley back and forth for work, but I still haven't ridden a scooter. So without the safety course done already and no practical experience its hard to get an idea of what would feel right if that makes any sense.
If a reliable 2T 50 was a real cost savings and could go where I needed, I'd be great with it. I went to the local dealer and saw that 2003 Yamaha Vino Classic for $999, I love the look of it, its in great shape and the price is right but I just don't know if i'd buy it and then find myself holding up traffic on 45 mph roads with hills.
If the price is close to the same I'd most likely end up going with a 100-150cc since I'll already be getting my M class license through the course, registering it and getting insurance.
As for online vs local shop. It seems the warranty for online orders for the places I checked seems to only be valid if you have it assembled/checked over by a licensed mechanic. That would be I'd have to bring it there anyway, pay them to check it over, etc, I might be closing in on the costs of just getting something local in the first place. The court is still out on that one.
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Post by skuttadawg on Jan 7, 2013 13:05:38 GMT -5
Get the Yamaha and enjoy it . You can always put on a BBK and pipe later if you wan to go faster
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