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Post by slimshady on Nov 29, 2012 21:39:19 GMT -5
Hello I've been thinking about upgrading my eton 50 cc engine to a 70 cc. I stopped a t the scooter shop where I got my scooter and got a quote. 500.00 for a bbk , jets,rollers,ect installed. What do you think? On one hand I want to try it myself on the other I want to turn the key and go?  |
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 29, 2012 21:40:00 GMT -5
2T or 4T ?
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Post by slimshady on Nov 29, 2012 21:42:23 GMT -5
2 stroke
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 29, 2012 21:46:35 GMT -5
You meant BBK and if not done right it may turn into a BBQ LOL . A 2T is much easier to and rewarding . A 2T powerkit can cost just under 500 so getting that plus installed is a good deal if the do the variator and exhaust too.
It only took me an hour to take it apart and red mine , but I have many years of experience
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Post by slimshady on Nov 29, 2012 21:56:56 GMT -5
Darn auto correct
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Post by teddy554 on Nov 29, 2012 22:08:41 GMT -5
never that, thats crazy i can put a bbk kit on in less then 45 min and have it jet right and another 15 mins but if you aint comfortable in doing it and they will stand behind there work do it but i would shop around for a better price first a bbk average price 130-199 roller 20 bucks jet 5 bucks so on the high end 225 in parts and they are probably using the cheapest stuff and the rest is all cash in there pockets, find out what kind of parts they are using and what is included in your etc, but i charge 75 buck to put on a bbk on a 2t and 125 4t they buy the parts but i dont have no business expense also
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 29, 2012 22:19:28 GMT -5
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Post by teddy554 on Nov 29, 2012 22:23:40 GMT -5
yeah i have that kit on a eton beamer it is a good kit for the price everything else is stock on the eton and it still wants to wheelie
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 29, 2012 22:49:48 GMT -5
I can hit 11,000 RPMs and use a 105 MJ on a 19mm TK carb . I can pop a wheelie at 50 MPH with my 13 inch wheels
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Post by carasdad on Nov 29, 2012 23:46:21 GMT -5
never that, thats crazy i can put a bbk kit on in less then 45 min and have it jet right and another 15 mins but if you aint comfortable in doing it and they will stand behind there work do it but i would shop around for a better price first a bbk average price 130-199 roller 20 bucks jet 5 bucks so on the high end 225 in parts and they are probably using the cheapest stuff and the rest is all cash in there pockets, find out what kind of parts they are using and what is included in your etc, but i charge 75 buck to put on a bbk on a 2t and 125 4t they buy the parts but i dont have no business expense also Same here..2T or 4T...can do a BBK in 45 mins.Nobody believes it can be done. Shop the next town over charge for 3 hours labor..75 bux an hour...surely it can't take that long...they were just ripping folks off...probably why they went out of business. But 500 bux for his BBK install??? Talk about ridiculous...  |
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 29, 2012 23:51:31 GMT -5
For just a BBK and install yes its high but a whole power kit with CVT , pipe and carb costs almost as much if that is included . A 2T is very simple with basic tools just need compression ring pliers for the rings . I got a pair from Oreillys for 7 bucks
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Post by prodigit on Nov 30, 2012 2:53:00 GMT -5
I can hit 11,000 RPMs and use a 105 MJ on a 19mm TK carb . I can pop a wheelie at 50 MPH with my 13 inch wheels But you can't get 105+ MPG, or drive 130 miles on $5 of gas! |
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Post by lovemy2strokes on Nov 30, 2012 7:39:09 GMT -5
You guys realize theres more to just slapping together a 2 stroke engine?? Its called checking deck height, piston clearance, piston squish, port timing, air leak down test, pressure test, compression test, then you need to plug chop it till its tuned right. If I heard someone say what you guys are about building a 2 t I wouldnt let you touch it. And if you can get 105+ mpg out of a 11k engine with a carb you have beat any engineers design of a carbed 2t engine. Fuel injected aprilia Srs stock barely get 100 mpg and thats a ditech fuelie. I have gotten max out of a stock 2t kymco zx50 65 mpg. It is the nature of the beast to not get great 4t gas mileage. On my 13k honda engines I get around 20-25mpg.
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Post by lovemy2strokes on Nov 30, 2012 7:42:03 GMT -5
And its not a matter of believeing it cant be done, its a matter of it shouldnt be done. Simple checks will keep an engine from blowing up after 500 miles. If you say you build them all the time like this I would laugh. A leak down test is by far the MOST important thing to do after building any engine. If you can do that one in 15 minutes youre doing it wrong. Im sure Ill get some flak on this one but the truth is out there.
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Post by teddy554 on Nov 30, 2012 9:19:37 GMT -5
lovemy2strokes
i have never done a leak down on any bbk i have done, not saying it should or shouldnt be done, and for all the other stuff you throw out there besides squish Clarence is irrelevant to the back yard tuner now if your build a race motor or trying to get every last bit of power and everything needs to be more precise, then compression and port duration is more important, and if you could read a little more one guy is bragging about making 11k and the others says but u can't get 105mpg like he does. Some people make it more complicated then it really has to be and i do, do it like that all the time so enjoy a laugh on me
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Post by lovemy2strokes on Nov 30, 2012 9:54:23 GMT -5
I need a 105 mpg 2 stroke, I would love it! Back yard tuning aside you should still do at least the leak down. I totally agree 2 strokes are too simple to be complicated as long as you follow a few simple rules. I think 2 strokes are the most simple engine designs ever, but are amazing.
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Post by teddy554 on Nov 30, 2012 9:59:52 GMT -5
the guy that says 105 mpg has a toatoa 4t that i believe is all stock
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Post by snugglebunny on Nov 30, 2012 10:05:23 GMT -5
sorry if this hijacks this thread but,
when you do a BBK shouldnt you have to
use a strong "crank" etc etc
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Post by teddy554 on Nov 30, 2012 10:12:14 GMT -5
you can use a stock crank on most bbk it the racing bbk that rev higher that you need a stronger crank for. higher revs more stress on the crank
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Post by slimshady on Nov 30, 2012 10:13:06 GMT -5
My gas mileage is already poor or I think so 50 to 60 miles per gal not that the cost is to much but I would like to pass a few gas stations.
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 30, 2012 10:15:22 GMT -5
A forged crank is on my to do list since some can handle up to 18,000 RPMs beyond what the engine or mine can turn
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Post by lovemy2strokes on Nov 30, 2012 10:38:17 GMT -5
I run the Malossi MHR crank, follow the link in my signature for my one build with all Malossi parts on a 05 kymco zx50 engine which is a honda dio af16 with a longer case and larger 12 inch rear tire, clutch, and drive face.
I have 2 other kymco zx50s with Polini Corsa cylinders on them, one with a Leo Vince zx expansion chamber and the other with a PG short copy pipe.
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 30, 2012 10:41:39 GMT -5
Sounds like some fun rides . Yes I do not get insane MPG and I doubt youy get 105 MPG unless you ride at 20 MPh
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Post by lovemy2strokes on Nov 30, 2012 10:58:56 GMT -5
I can see a 4t getting it, but having a 50mm NCY kitted tao tao cy50 t3 I can say this... A stock kymco zx50 with the same external mods (variator, clutch, clutch bell, contra spring, triple springs, intake, carb, and exhaust) stock 49cc cylinder no work internal will beat my very modified tao tao 80cc in every way, 0-15, 15-max speed of tao tao at a weak 52 mph, uphill, down hill, and every thing in between. We did a race for fun and its proven, recorded on a super 8 sony handycam unfortunately ha.
In the end tho its still nice to get that sweet 80+ mpg when I want to ride 300+ km a day.
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Post by teddy554 on Nov 30, 2012 11:22:54 GMT -5
like the home made leak down tester on your link nice build i was thinking of doing a build on a honda elite
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 30, 2012 11:44:33 GMT -5
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Post by prodigit on Nov 30, 2012 19:15:43 GMT -5
Sounds like some fun rides . Yes I do not get insane MPG and I doubt youy get 105 MPG unless you ride at 20 MPh Driving at top speed actually (40-47MPH). Though in actuality, my average is closer to 102-103MPG.  The readings are a bit up and down, because of using different fuels, and using different ride conditions. The peak at 107MPG, I got from driving through the everglades at top speed. I've driven over 1200 miles, in 45 days, costing me only $50 in gas total! That's like a buck per day on gas! |
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 30, 2012 19:19:10 GMT -5
And what did you use to get the graph ?
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Post by prodigit on Nov 30, 2012 19:24:19 GMT -5
Fuelly. You can click on my logo.
The odometer is in km, but fuelly converts it correctly back to miles (odo meter is over 2000, yet fuelly tells me I've done 1200 something miles.
I've tracked the TaoTao's odometer via GPS, and on the 200+ miles trip I did through the everglades, it was only 1 mile off with the GPS).
The only thing that's off is the speedometer reading, but that does not affect MPG.
The combined 98.8 MPG reading you see in the bottom of my sig, includes the initial fuelup where I basically get '0'MPG, because I added 1,35 gal of fuel with zero odo meter, and the break in, where lower MPG is to be expected.
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Post by super9 on Dec 2, 2012 8:17:40 GMT -5
I think its rewarding doing it yourself..there is plenty of helpfull people on here that can and will point you in the right direction..and once you do it once your be able to do it again at a cheaper cost
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