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Post by oniondip on Nov 20, 2012 19:41:23 GMT -5
My 150cc chinese scooter was in my garage at the Jersey shore during Hurricane Sandy and it was fully submerged in salt water for several hours. It no longer starts of course and only a few wires are corroded. The battery is shot but the scooter actually doesn't look that bad considering everything.
No water got in the gas tank. Could any water have gotten into the engine or the carb?
Where should I even begin to try to get this scooter to start?
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Post by snugglebunny on Nov 20, 2012 19:46:59 GMT -5
idk if theres any experts on submerged scoots anywhere  i will offer some common sense idea, they may work. let everything dry, either naturally or use a blow dryer change all fluids, even brakes & hell gas also if you are mechanically inclined enough, take the valve cover off. No oil in it, and try and see if it all dries out. get some really cheap oil and fill and drain, heck twice just trying to get all water out anyone else have any suggestions?  ?? |
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Post by toxictom on Nov 20, 2012 20:10:49 GMT -5
If it was submerged you should treat it like water did get in the engine and carb. Pull the carb, disassemble and rebuild. I'd drain the oil then fill the crankcase completely with diesel fuel. Slosh it around real good then drain it out. Diesel is lighter than motor oil and might coax water out better. Use compressed air or a shop vac to blow dry everything out if you can. Be on the safe side and drain the gas as well. Replace the fuel filter as well. Put everything back together, fill with oil and crank it over.
Good luck!
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Post by jlee on Nov 20, 2012 20:14:37 GMT -5
If it was submerged in salt water for several hours, don't even TRY to start it. The carb & engine need to be fully torn down and cleaned. Gaskets will be swelled and need to be replaced. Needs to be done ASAP before salt corrosion sets in.
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Post by prodigit on Nov 20, 2012 20:19:13 GMT -5
Water itself is not the issue. There's plenty of water entering daily in your engine via the air intake, in the fuel, and sometimes it even gets into the engine where the oil should be!
All of that will evaporate.
What's worse is the electronics, and stator, but even that will evaporate.
What won't evaporate is the salt.
For that reason, get it all cleaned out, I'd say!
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Post by snugglebunny on Nov 20, 2012 20:30:56 GMT -5
wow lotta good points
hope it never happens to me
and i 'member it all--lol
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Post by scootercapecod on Nov 20, 2012 21:31:52 GMT -5
As a saltwater area living person I DO know how damaging it can be. After seeing what happened to the 9/11 memorial bike that OCC did, i'd say you have your work cut out for you. You will need to totally rebuild the engine, replace any and all electronics, this includes the entire wiring harness, switches, the like. Although you may not SEE any damage, trust me it's there and it only gets worse if you don't get to it fast. Even the best maintained scooters go through brutal hell in a salt AIR environment, let alone being under water! Sorry to (no pun intended) dampen your spirits but it's going to cost you some time and yes, some money. Hopefully you had insurance on the place where it was and have the paperwork on the scoot including receipts. if so, maybe you can file a claim on it with your ins. company. If so, it'll be a lot easier to get something for it and buy parts.
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Post by S.B.H. on Nov 20, 2012 21:48:14 GMT -5
My 150cc chinese scooter was in my garage at the Jersey shore during Hurricane Sandy and it was fully submerged in salt water for several hours. It no longer starts of course and only a few wires are corroded. The battery is shot but the scooter actually doesn't look that bad considering everything. No water got in the gas tank. Could any water have gotten into the engine or the carb? Where should I even begin to try to get this scooter to start? If it was me I would just flush the motor {pull plug fill will oil kick over couple times drain fill repeat } pull all panels and spray everything with a good contact cleaner and follow up with something like"toolbox buddy" by Lucas and just plan on a new carb,stator & pick up ,CDI, and go from there ,,,,,I`ve had 1 come to me full of sugar in gas tank and flushed out motor & tank replaced carb new plug and guy put another 3800?? on it before I put a new piston and jug on it. that`s the short story...my point is you would be surprised just how tough these things can be sometimes,worse case is your out a couple of bucks and some time,,,and you end up with a parts bike. |
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Post by Blueboy5000 on Nov 26, 2012 19:02:17 GMT -5
If this bike was submerged in SALT WATER it is pretty much screwed. Salt water is utterly corrosive! The ONLY way to properly fix this is to strip the bike and engine and extremely thoroughly clean, re-oil and reseal the entire engine!
A good flush may fix your engine just fine, but it is and extremely bad plan. When cars are caught in floods, the engines, transmissions, and differentials must be replaced if they are to be repaired from flood salvage, per Federal Safety Standards.
Contrary to most opinions, these bikes HATE water in the engine, and have been known to develop significant damage simply from induction of water in their intake charge while running in rain ( this is why you don't ride a sponge-foam style open element filter in the rain without properly oiling).
Even if I managed to get your salt-submerged engine to start after being flushed and re-filled with new oil, I would not trust it to run for long.
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Post by prodigit on Nov 26, 2012 19:13:56 GMT -5
Nah...
Salt water would do not much to a mostly aluminum engine!
The salt itself is corrosive, but not that in a period of 2 weeks it would cause any real damage.
I'd be worried if the salt entered into the engine, and into the bearings!
But then again, what kind of salt water did you get in there?
From what I saw on the news, NJ was pelleted with a lot of rain, which is sweet water, so unless the ocean flowed right in your back yard, the level of salt should be minimal!
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Post by inuyasha on Nov 26, 2012 19:20:51 GMT -5
Nah... Salt water would do not much to a mostly aluminum engine!The salt itself is corrosive, but not that in a period of 2 weeks it would cause any real damage. I'd be worried if the salt entered into the engine, and into the bearings! But then again, what kind of salt water did you get in there? From what I saw on the news, NJ was pelleted with a lot of rain, which is sweet water, so unless the ocean flowed right in your back yard, the level of salt should be minimal! Hi It all depends on the grade of aluminum used and the less expensive scoot engines are not manufactured using marine grade alloys but mainly Pot metals so the damage from the salt water could be severe www.sheetpileeurope.com/uploads/CMI%20technische%20documenten%20(engels)/aluminum_corrosion.pdfTake care and ride safely dear friend Yours Hank |
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Post by prodigit on Nov 26, 2012 19:27:31 GMT -5
Well, as far as I understand it, even the most basic aluminum oxidizes only very little. A feat of aluminum is that this oxidized layer is actually protecting deeper oxydation, like with steel or iron.
So aluminum, even low grade, can stand a lot.
Bearings are not aluminum but steel. Getting salt out of there would be very difficult, and better to buy a new engine.
Like Skuttadawg, I would just use clean water to flush off any salt deposit, use a soft cloth to dry the electronics, and dry the bike in a clean but warm space for a few days, until all water is out of it.
The engine I'd also flush and dry. Do a few oil changes, and the salt in the engine will be thinned out a lot.
Then use something like corrosion x, to spray most of the bolts, and iron parts, and prep the engine to drive it. Drive it until it dies, be it 2 months or 2 years, and in the mean time save up for a new engine or a new bike.
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Post by macktheknife on Nov 26, 2012 19:43:26 GMT -5
Well, as far as I understand it, even the most basic aluminum oxidizes only very little. A feat of aluminum is that this oxidized layer is actually protecting deeper oxydation, like with steel or iron. So aluminum, even low grade, can stand a lot. Bearings are not aluminum but steel. Getting salt out of there would be very difficult, and better to buy a new engine. Like Skuttadawg, I would just use clean water to flush off any salt deposit, use a soft cloth to dry the electronics, and dry the bike in a clean but warm space for a few days, until all water is out of it. The engine I'd also flush and dry. Do a few oil changes, and the salt in the engine will be thinned out a lot. Then use something like corrosion x, to spray most of the bolts, and iron parts, and prep the engine to drive it. Drive it until it dies, be it 2 months or 2 years, and in the mean time save up for a new engine or a new bike. The head, crankshaft, bearings, valves, valve springs, timing chain, cam, are not aluminum. Submerged is engine full of salt water, once it's drained the rusting process begins immediately and the rings are not aluminum either. Turn the engine over with salt on the piston rings and engine wall and it will be the same as throwing sand in it. Chances of saving this engine without total rebuild are slim to none. |
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 26, 2012 20:05:01 GMT -5
mack , interesting topic .
so salt water in engines is a poor gamble .
Well I have plenty of cdi's coils regulators stators carbs pod filters , I have one harness in stock .
In NYC daily and I ship very fast .
John
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Post by prodigit on Nov 26, 2012 22:26:24 GMT -5
I wonder if salt actually survives in the high temperatures of a piston?
Second, salt will melt, even in oil, if the temp is high enough (and it will be when the engine is running). It will mix with oil, and make the oil a little salty. Do an oil change, and the amount of salt will be very minimal.
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Post by macktheknife on Nov 26, 2012 22:39:48 GMT -5
I wonder if salt actually survives in the high temperatures of a piston? Second, salt will melt, even in oil, if the temp is high enough (and it will be when the engine is running). It will mix with oil, and make the oil a little salty. Do an oil change, and the amount of salt will be very minimal. The piston walls will not have a thick enough film of oil to protect the engine upon start up and that's where the salt will create friction enough to damage the rings and piston wall if the cyclinder is full of salt water and I'm sure the water the salt was in was full of dirt and impuites also after all we were talking about a hurricane not a rainstorm. Salt metling in oil? Now who has the IQ level below 80? www.blurtit.com/q337577.htmlAverage temp in a scooter engine's oil is 275f to 325F. Not happening. |
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Post by bobshaw on Nov 26, 2012 22:40:06 GMT -5
I'm no expert, but, before you start throwing things away and rebuilding or replacing it, what I'd do is flush it out and clean it off like recommended, and then try to start it. If it runs, even if you have to fix or replace some elecronics to get it running, then ride it as long as it will still run. Then rebuild or replace it. If you're eventually going to have to replace the drive train, because of the salt, you certainly aren't going to hurt anything by using it until it goes bad. JMHO
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Post by macktheknife on Nov 26, 2012 22:48:13 GMT -5
It's worth a try to flush it, you have nothing to lose but you should'nt even turn the engine over until you have flushed it as well as you can and hurry and get fresh oil in. Again when the scooter's engine is drained of all salt water the non-aluminum parts will rust very quiclkly adding to the problem with finished parts and bearings.
He has nothing to lose to try.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 27, 2012 13:07:58 GMT -5
Salt water for any time will leave behind a residue that will continue to corrode whatever it came in contact with. The bike would have to be stripped down to the frame and all the tubing flushed completely with fresh water and then treated with a corrosion inhibitor. All wiring and electronics will be questionable and should be replaced. Every thing else will need to be completly disassembled and gone through to remove the salt residue and put back into order. The hydraulic brake system components should all be replaced too.
The problem with a submerged bike is that it may not show any sign of damage until the internal corrosion of the frame gets bad enough that it breaks in two. Hopefully the bike will be parked and not travelling at 50 or 60 mph when that happens.
I grew up by the New England coast and have busted a few bikes in two over my knee that people scoffed at being salt damaged. I probably saved their lives by preventing them from trying to get those bikes running again.
Remember a scooter frame has a lot of nooks and crannies that are not easy to flush out so despite ones best efforts to clean things up you may still end up with a frame failure from salt damage. The mild steel that it is made of will fail a lot faster than one might imagine possible.
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Post by Blueboy5000 on Nov 27, 2012 15:05:23 GMT -5
I am entirely aware of what salt water does to automotive engines, which is destroy them, I've seen it first-hand.
I cannot believe that chinese gy6 engines are even remotely as durable, or made of comparable alloys to automotive engines. Aluminum is porous, and corrodes in the presence of salt, so is and does steel. Salt water submersion is an unequivocal death sentence.
It should be noted that aluminum designed to be used in marine applications is always coated with salt resistant coatings and platings.
Aluminum is not in anyway resistant to corrosion, it rusts a black color, and rusts easily with exposure to fresh water, salt water is hundreds of times more corrosive than fresh water.
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Post by scootercapecod on Nov 27, 2012 17:35:54 GMT -5
IMHO watever parts you can take off the bike and clean should be put aside for your next project bike and buy a new one all together. These people are absolutely right about salt water and the damage it causes. I live out here on cape Cod and I see first hand what it does to cars, boats, scooters etc.... The frame is certainly a concern as i've had many 2T scoots that have sat for years unmaintained until i started riding them, big mistake! No, none of them fell apart as in frame snapping in half but you can trust me when I tell you there was a LOT more give in them than they should have when I was riding! The things almost wanted to fold up under me when I hit any kind of bump. Aside from that, clutches seize, bearings rot out, the kickstand falls off, bolts drop out....it's a mess and that's not even being UNDER water, that's just exposure to this environment. Even if you do get it running again you're going to spend wasted money on parts if other things go badly. I'd save my coins and buy a new bike
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Post by prodigit on Nov 27, 2012 21:09:32 GMT -5
I wonder if salt actually survives in the high temperatures of a piston? Second, salt will melt, even in oil, if the temp is high enough (and it will be when the engine is running). It will mix with oil, and make the oil a little salty. Do an oil change, and the amount of salt will be very minimal. The piston walls will not have a thick enough film of oil to protect the engine upon start up and that's where the salt will create friction enough to damage the rings and piston wall if the cyclinder is full of salt water and I'm sure the water the salt was in was full of dirt and impuites also after all we were talking about a hurricane not a rainstorm. Salt metling in oil? Now who has the IQ level below 80? www.blurtit.com/q337577.htmlAverage temp in a scooter engine's oil is 275f to 325F. Not happening. I believe you sir. Tell me what happens to salt when you throw it in room temperature water? And for the record, melting is the same as dissolving in this case. |
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Post by scootnwinn on Nov 27, 2012 23:35:54 GMT -5
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Post by macktheknife on Nov 28, 2012 6:51:23 GMT -5
The piston walls will not have a thick enough film of oil to protect the engine upon start up and that's where the salt will create friction enough to damage the rings and piston wall if the cyclinder is full of salt water and I'm sure the water the salt was in was full of dirt and impuites also after all we were talking about a hurricane not a rainstorm. Salt metling in oil? Now who has the IQ level below 80? www.blurtit.com/q337577.htmlAverage temp in a scooter engine's oil is 275f to 325F. Not happening. I believe you sir. Tell me what happens to salt when you throw it in room temperature water? And for the record, melting is the same as dissolving in this case. Melting and dissolving are two different things and I won't even bother posting the defintions of the differences. As the last poster says salt does not mix with oil. Even if it did melt or dissolve in oil the corrosive properties would still be suspended in the oil. Just because you change salt from a solid to a liquid or even blend liquified salt with oil doesn't change it's destructive nature especially after you drain it form a engine and it leaves it's residue. By the way a GY-6 engine doesn't even get close to the needed temp to melt or dissolve (use either one you wish) salt in oil, you again ignore facts. |
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Post by musikron on Nov 28, 2012 10:13:42 GMT -5
OP, what did you wind up doing?
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Post by snugglebunny on Nov 28, 2012 10:25:38 GMT -5
if any of you have ever watched a
treasure hunt show
they leave any found articles in salt water.
stops it from rusting,
until they are completely ready to clean that piece.
so if the OP's scoot was submerged, then drained
or water went down naturally
rust has already started
and since this has been a running thread for awhile
im guessing the scoots dead.
might be able to save a few pieces
but inside the tubing of the frame
and other parts, naw rust is already firmly in charge now
SORRY
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Post by scosgt on Dec 1, 2012 18:09:03 GMT -5
Everyone is on the right track, but I think the first thing to do is wash everything down with fresh water.
Salt corrodes, water is the universal solvent. Everything needs to be totally cleaned in fresh water, then WD40 applied to remove the water. Then maybe a solvent to remove the WD 40.
In the end, the engine and electricals are probably ruined anyway.
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Post by dyoung1167 on Dec 3, 2012 8:57:08 GMT -5
Everyone is on the right track, but I think the first thing to do is wash everything down with fresh water. Salt corrodes, water is the universal solvent. Everything needs to be totally cleaned in fresh water, then WD40 applied to remove the water. Then maybe a solvent to remove the WD 40. In the end, the engine and electricals are probably ruined anyway. totally agree. flush, flush, flush, and then flush some more. paying special attention to any and all nooks, crannies and open frame spots. if possible (with it torn down of course) re-submerge in fresh water as many times as your patience will allow. and do not forget the steering bearings. wd-40 after will help because the corrosion process needs air (oxygen - whence oxidation, better known as corrosion or rust) and wd-40 will give it a protective layer keeping air from getting to it. unfortunatley this will be temporary as it does dry out. that is the point of the treasure dudes mentioned. keeping air from coming in contact. they don't have to use salt water though, fresh is better but less plentiful when on the open ocean. all said, you'll probably spend about half what a new one is worth to make it worthy and then it still won't last very long. hate it for ya dude, but as said, get what you can out of it. hope it all goes well for ya but it's not looking too good. |
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Post by jfischer6982 on Dec 3, 2012 11:39:26 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but, you did say it was a cheap Chinese scooter right? The amount of money these guys are talking about rebuilding , or getting a new engine, flushes etc. Is ridiculously expensive, instead save up 400-500 dollars, and but a new cheap Chinese scooter, I don't know why no body else recommended this. If saltwater is in the bike do not risk riding it, it is garbage, toss it. Go buy a new one.
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Post by prodigit on Dec 3, 2012 13:58:28 GMT -5
I think when a person loses many items in such a storm, and did not have an income for over 2 weeks, that money might be pretty tight; even $500!
Then again, time might be tight too...
I'd not go to crazy extends in flushing. Just do an fluid change (oil and gas), and clean the bike with a pressure washer. Dry it, and drive off. Doesn't matter if it's a cheap chinese bike; if the OP doesn't even have the time to reply to the topic, since nov 20, I bet he has little time to do all these routine things. Just drive the chino bike until it breaks, and then spend money for a new bike!
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