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Post by jackryan on Oct 2, 2012 19:36:01 GMT -5
Hi All,
My first real issue with my Shienke SL250 (honda 244cc upright clone engine) I can charge the battery with the plug in the side but it appears the bike's internal charging system isnt working. Where do I start to trouble shoot this? What do I check? Im mechanically competent but Im not sure how to trouble shoot this.
Thanks,
Sean
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Post by carasdad on Oct 2, 2012 20:08:34 GMT -5
Check your battery voltage with a multimeter....then check it again with the engine running this time. Voltage should increase to about 13.6v or better while running. If not...your voltage regulator or stator may be bad. Here is a link that will help you. Skip all the first stuff and go down to the 'stator testing' section. Let us know what you find.  Glenn scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=electricissues&action=display&thread=53915 |
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Post by richardthescooter1 on Oct 3, 2012 8:59:36 GMT -5
I agree with carasdad, regulators are known to go bad, I'd start there first after making sure the battery is good.
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Post by suburbanking on Oct 4, 2012 12:20:17 GMT -5
I have had trouble with starting my scoot. Battery would charge but would not start. I found out the R/R was bad and waiting on part.
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Post by macktheknife on Oct 4, 2012 21:47:41 GMT -5
Sorry the link you supplied is not applicable. This is a 18 pole stator and is 3 phase the testing procedure is different on a 3 phase stator. For help on this stator testing check out this site. |
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Post by carasdad on Oct 4, 2012 21:53:00 GMT -5
Sorry the link you supplied is not applicable. This is a 18 pole stator and is 3 phase the testing procedure is different on a 3 phase stator. For help on this stator testing check out this site. 18 pole 3 phase?...omg...you could run a Central Air unit of that thing almost....huh?..  |
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Post by macktheknife on Oct 4, 2012 21:58:27 GMT -5
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Post by carasdad on Oct 4, 2012 22:06:21 GMT -5
Ah ok....60vac..same as our lil scoots put out. K had me thinking 220vac 3 phase...and the thing came with a 4 prong 30amp range plug...so he could use a stove or electric dryer...to dry his clothes in case he got caught in a thunderstorm.. ;D
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Post by macktheknife on Oct 5, 2012 5:57:59 GMT -5
Ah ok....60vac..same as our lil scoots put out. K had me thinking 220vac 3 phase...and the thing came with a 4 prong 30amp range plug...so he could use a stove or electric dryer...to dry his clothes in case he got caught in a thunderstorm.. ;D No it's not the same. The GY-6 is a single phase type 8-coil stator and on the single coil that feeds the CDI one can have up to 100 Vac feeding the CDI. But on the other two legs 40 Vac is the max with the R/R unplugged on the two charging legs. On the 18 coil stator on this 250 scooter it has 3 charging legs and since the system has a DC powered CDI there is no AC leg from the stator to the CDI, it feeds off of 12 Vdc from the battery. It is a different system and the test application you gave him will result in him incorrectly testing the stator along with the CDI. |
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Post by carasdad on Oct 5, 2012 6:34:16 GMT -5
When I said 'same'...I meant voltage wise i.e. 60vac...not configuration wise... But did not know it was a DC system....so please don't throw me under a bus for trying to help...
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 5, 2012 7:32:56 GMT -5
When I said 'same'...I meant voltage wise i.e. 60vac...not configuration wise... But did not know it was a DC system....so please don't throw me under a bus for trying to help... We learn as we go, I don't remember seeing a 250cc with ac cdi. John |
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Post by macktheknife on Oct 5, 2012 17:41:48 GMT -5
When I said 'same'...I meant voltage wise i.e. 60vac...not configuration wise... But did not know it was a DC system....so please don't throw me under a bus for trying to help... Nope no trying to throw you under the old bus, just didn't want the fellow who started this thread to do tests and then think his stator was bad by the GY-6 type test. Also when one tests the GY-6 yellow and white leg on the stator they do the test to ground. On the 3-phase 250 18 coil stator the method of testing is yellow leg to yellow leg on each phase and not to ground like on all 3-phase type electrical systems. Each wire must be equal in voltage in the testing pattern of Wire 1 to 2 Wire 1 to 3 Wire 2 to 3. |
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Post by carasdad on Oct 5, 2012 21:11:34 GMT -5
When I said 'same'...I meant voltage wise i.e. 60vac...not configuration wise... But did not know it was a DC system....so please don't throw me under a bus for trying to help... Nope no trying to throw you under the old bus, just didn't want the fellow who started this thread to do tests and then think his stator was bad by the GY-6 type test. Also when one tests the GY-6 yellow and white leg on the stator they do the test to ground. On the 3-phase 250 18 coil stator the method of testing is yellow leg to yellow leg on each phase and not to ground like on all 3-phase type electrical systems. Each wire must be equal in voltage in the testing pattern of Wire 1 to 2 Wire 1 to 3 Wire 2 to 3. Ahh..so it is a 3 phase system then..tx..learned sumpin today..  |
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Post by macktheknife on Oct 5, 2012 21:31:10 GMT -5
Yes sir it's a 3 phase system and a very good one. Why they don't do this on all scooters is beyond me?
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Post by jackryan on Oct 6, 2012 2:33:00 GMT -5
well I finally got some time to get the parts and start working on it. Some observations so far:
1) have a good phillips screw driver, you will need it.
2) the panels dont come off as easy as you think.
3) the big regulator may not be the only bad electrical part (secondary regulator mounted next to it had melted wires)
4) Make sure you have all the bits and pieces before you start. (I forgot a gasket, we will see if that comes back to haunt me tomarrow.
This was the first time I have taken the body panels off of this scooter. it was harder then I thought it would be, but I got it off. The bucket is still installed so I may still have a ways to go. The back wheel has been squeaking as well so figured Id grease the axle as well so I pulled the aftermarket exhaust off and got ready to take the big nut off the axle in the morning (Electric impact wrench is really loud in my neighborhood at night). Is it okay to put that nut back on with it too? I picked up some Prestone dex-cool coolant (is that ok?) for when I dump out the old coolant to get to the stator as well as some 10-w40 oil cause it needs to be drained too to get inside the cover where the stator is. I replaced the old regulator as well as the little regulator next to it, so hopefully this will fix my issues.
With the regulators replaced should I do the test to see of the system is charging now, or should I go ahead and change the stator out first? I dont want to blow up me new regulators because of a bad stator.
That is all can think of so far.
Thanks all for listening.
Sean
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 6, 2012 5:00:58 GMT -5
the little regulator next to the big regulator is the blocking diode , that may have been the problem all along . If you checked the stator as mack suggested wee all would know if the stator is good or not . stators don't blow regulators . They swallow voltage.
John
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Post by macktheknife on Oct 6, 2012 5:15:34 GMT -5
That is correct, you don't have two regulators and I would not use dexacool but use the recommended 50/50 premix type coolant.
I sent you a PM.
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Post by jackryan on Oct 6, 2012 10:42:53 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the input. I am using the prestone dexcool 50/50 premix, is that OK? I picked it based on some research and the fact it said it was for aluminium engines and I know there are alot of aluminium parts.
the blocking diode (thanks for the correction) has two wires coming off of it showed signs of melting, so that seemed reasonable to replace. I also had the regulator checked and it appeared to be damaged as voltages were not being passed as expected.
As far as the stator url went I went and found the pdf and I will be running those tests this morning. If they prove that everything is ok now we will know that it was one of those two items, correct?
Well I know what to do from here, Ill follow up once I have more info.
Thanks,
Sean
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 6, 2012 12:01:50 GMT -5
Sean is the regulator 7 wires?
I have them!
John
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Post by macktheknife on Oct 6, 2012 21:04:46 GMT -5
No the 250 B has a 6-wire R/R
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Post by jackryan on Oct 6, 2012 22:07:19 GMT -5
Thank you Mac for the great pdf on troubleshooting the electrical system. I checked the the battery as it said to and I went through all the steps, when i got down to checking the stator it was way out of tolerance, I even checked it with another multimeter just to make sure (mine is a harbor freight special...$4.99 on sale today!) that it was right, and it was  so I started taking apart the bike to get to the stator, man that it the worst....its a Chinese puzzle ( I know, I know, it is Chinese ) so I have it all torn down and I got the old stator out and the new one doesnt quite fit but Ill get it in there, again its a puzzle. The other thing is I got the cover off and the gasket got trashed. Im kinda screwed as I dont have a replacement. Anyway I am burned out for tonight, Im back at it tomarrow. Sean |
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Post by macktheknife on Oct 7, 2012 4:48:34 GMT -5
Check your PM's
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so I started taking apart the bike to get to the stator, man that it the worst....its a Chinese puzzle ( I know, I know, it is Chinese