|
|
Post by chromestarhustler on Oct 2, 2012 13:27:56 GMT -5
The Piaggio BV 350 with as much power as a 400 to 500 cc bike while getting 80 mpg is a very nice bike. I am considering that engine in my next bike. By the time I am ready to trade up on my Sport City 250 I am hoping that Aprilia will be allowed access to that engine by Piaggio. umm you may be misinformed the bv 350 has 33bhp, the cbr250 has 24bhp, the ninja 250 has 28 bhp. kymco venox, 28 bhp, so it has more horse power than the 250 motorcycles, but a 1991 bandit 400, one of the lowest horsepower 400's, which was designed as a starter commuter bike has 50 bhp, the gs500 another low horsepower commuter bike, 50 bhp. the 1989 cbr400, 60 horsepower and it was the sporty 400cc bike. cb400, 50 bhp the bv350 horsepower doent come close to matching 400cc engines made 20 years ago.... if you go back 30 years to 1981, cb400, makes 43 horsepower. |
|
|
|
Post by Globs on Oct 2, 2012 15:14:30 GMT -5
Scooters are growing in numbers in the UK, Piaggo, SYM and Japanese. I use mine for work each day, so I need to know it will start and run well, and that the lights, engine and brakes work well.
I think for that reason chinese bikes are out.
London England is still rather bike hostile - too few parking spaces, all rammed full, and bumpy roads. France is much better, almost made for bikes.
I tend to ride past queues of cars at lights and in jams everyday, I get too frustrated in the car - I prefer to get wet etc and go on the scooter, especially the GTS, the low clutch pickup speed (walking pace) makes it excellent for traffic and low speed filtering.
|
|
|
|
Post by prodigit on Oct 2, 2012 15:54:24 GMT -5
Generally ALL the big brands are good.
Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda; just like Harley Davidsons, they last a long time without maintenance. Somehwere along the line you will have to do maintenance though...
Chinese bikes probably run fine as well, at least for the first 3-4000 miles or so.
|
|
|
|
Post by Globs on Oct 2, 2012 16:11:42 GMT -5
Chinese bikes probably run fine as well, at least for the first 3-4000 miles or so. They don't really though do they? The tyres are not as good, the shocks are inferior, the frames are not built with the same thought, the old carbs are hopelessly outdated compared to the new EFI systems that give higher power for less fuel, and choke free starting, the brakes are not so good, cheaper dimmer headlamps, less informative gauges, cheaper seats. The Taiwanese and Japanese bikes are frankly streets ahead even before the engine is started, ignoring reliability and resale. |
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Oct 3, 2012 4:43:23 GMT -5
The Piaggio BV 350 with as much power as a 400 to 500 cc bike while getting 80 mpg is a very nice bike. I am considering that engine in my next bike. By the time I am ready to trade up on my Sport City 250 I am hoping that Aprilia will be allowed access to that engine by Piaggio. umm you may be misinformed the bv 350 has 33bhp, the cbr250 has 24bhp, the ninja 250 has 28 bhp. kymco venox, 28 bhp, so it has more horse power than the 250 motorcycles, but a 1991 bandit 400, one of the lowest horsepower 400's, which was designed as a starter commuter bike has 50 bhp, the gs500 another low horsepower commuter bike, 50 bhp. the 1989 cbr400, 60 horsepower and it was the sporty 400cc bike. cb400, 50 bhp the bv350 horsepower doent come close to matching 400cc engines made 20 years ago.... if you go back 30 years to 1981, cb400, makes 43 horsepower. But is that usable power in the normal driving range of a scooter. Those numbers can sometimes be exagerated at a very narrow rpm range. The Chesterfield 250 puts out something like 76 hp but you have to rev it past 9,000 rpm to get that. Below 9,000 rpm my Sport City 250 will blow it away but has no chance once you get to rpms where the Chesterfields sweet spot begins to show. They gave the BV350 a boxed bore and stroke to give it more usable power in a scooters rpm range not more bhp than 400 and 500 cc bikes. That along with a more efficient automatic wet clutch instead of a centrifical dry clutch along other advancments in the cvt makes more of that power avalable at the rear wheel. At least that is what they seem to be claiming. |
|
|
|
Post by chromestarhustler on Oct 3, 2012 20:10:44 GMT -5
they gave it more power in a scooters usable range because its a scooter.
most motorcycles are set up on a drivablity stand point also, at or below a quarter throttle they have very linear acceleration, makes driving it quite easy and tame. go past quarter throttle and the acceleration is exponential. some people change the throttle cable spool from to open the butterfly faster. cruising along in a bike then you need to accelerate you drop the hammer,
the bv350 is a nice scooter with a broad power range to be used by a scooter. but its not a infinitively variable setup like a motorcycle. the isnt the chesterfield an aprillia rs250, its got a modified rotex engine (about 50bhp) and makes power 8000-11000 rpm, and was made almost exclusively for the track were experienced riders could keep it in the power band. they found there way to the street but the original design of the engine was to get max horsepower out of a small high revving mill inspired by suzuki's rgv250 grand prix bike. so basically the counter to the examples of great running 400 and 500cc driveable streetbikes i mentioned was a 250 track bike that was designed to run balls out screaming around a track for hours at a time that someone in the uk thought was a good idea to put on the street.
yeah the chesterfield got twice the power of a ninja 250, and if you rode it hard it would be ok on the street, but we are talking launching it hard at every light and keeping it wound up tighter than 5 pound test line with 20 pounds on it.
meanwhile a 250 ninja with a few less horsepower would easily be a close opponent with the manual being more efficient. modern vespa did a discussion on the ninja 250 vs the bv300, the bv300 could holeshot the ninja, but then it was all over.
typically the wider the power band has to be the less horsepower an engine makes, thus the bv350 has to have a wide power band because its a scooter and you can not change gears to keep it in the power band. its got a nice engine for a scooter. but not for a bike 33 isnt enough, the extra money probably could not be justified over a 250 ninja with a 2 up 1 down sprocket set
I can agree with you to a point, I really wish for the 400cc bikes to come back, as it stands 250, then the next jump up is 600cc. (only a few 500cc bikes still made). 400 is a fun bike, but an aprilla twin, 400 cc making about 55- 60 horsepower would be fun, and still easy to drive to work.
I personally am wishing for the 400 bandit, and the 400 cbr to return.
|
|
|
|
Post by prodigit on Oct 3, 2012 21:58:11 GMT -5
same goes for the 100-125cc's.
Most street models are either 50, a big bore (87), or 150cc. It seems 100 or 125 are overlooked.
100cc would make a good scoot, because it'll operate well on 45MPH roads, unlike a 50cc with a big bore, that will overheat, belt breaks, or parts inside wear out...
|
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Oct 3, 2012 22:24:02 GMT -5
The Aprilia 250 I was looking at were banded for a 9,000 to 13,000 rpm power range and were using Aprilia spec and modifed Suzuki 250 engines putting out 76 to 96 hp depending on the trim. Definately track bred Super Bikes not to be confused with the Street Replica version which will only hit about 200 kph or around 125 mph.
When comparing the usable power of the BV350 to 400 and 500 cc bikes we were talking scooters and not comparing the BV350 to a Nija, CB400 or a track bike even though they are all bikes same as spagetti, raviolli and lasagna are all pasta albeit for different purposes.
|
|
|
|
Post by gregsfc on Oct 7, 2012 5:50:07 GMT -5
When I had my Lance Vintage with the 10 inch wheels I rode it in Old St Augustine and the ride was so bad on the cobblestones that I had to bungie the top case to keep the lid shut at speeds over 5 mph. The Piaggio BV 350 with as much power as a 400 to 500 cc bike while getting 80 mpg is a very nice bike. I am considering that engine in my next bike. By the time I am ready to trade up on my Sport City 250 I am hoping that Aprilia will be allowed access to that engine by Piaggio. The Honda 150's in this country still sell for more money than you can get the $2,999 Aprilia 250 for so the price base or incentive must be different in Italy as I can't imagine a good Italian (yes we can be cheepskates) paying 20 to 30 percent more than the Aprilia 250 costs to get a Honda 150. Great discussion here about the all-new BV350 and it's power versus 400 and 500 cc bikes and scoots, but I must comment on the expected mpg and ask a question not discussed: I currently hold the title, by a wide margin on fuelly.com for a BV350 owner/rider. My average is currently @ 71.5 and is trending downward as avg. temps are dropping. My high is around 73. Everyone else is in the upper 50s to mid 60s. Most are low 60s. Without hypermiling, 80 mpg is unattainable on the BV350. Good fuel economy but not that good. My situation lends itself to great mpg. State highway commute; 45-65 mph. I can get 47 mpg in my car in the summer with worn tires. No one has mentioned power to weight ratio, which seems to be what would really matter. Isn't the weight of the BV nearly 100 lbs. lighter than some of the 400-500 maxi scooters? |
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Oct 7, 2012 8:48:34 GMT -5
At 390 lbs it is lighter than some Chinese 250's and about 60 lbs heavier than my Sport City 250. It is 25 lbs lighter than the BV500, 100 lbs lighter than the Burgman 400 and 223lbs lighter than the Burgman 650.
I see that the final spec is 65 to 70 mpg and not the pre-release 80 mpg that was mentioned.
|
|
|
|
Post by prodigit on Oct 7, 2012 10:31:02 GMT -5
I get 80+MPG on my BMS TBX 260 with EFI, but only when driving 40-50MPH. Driving faster (like 70-75MPH), and the MPG goes down; and the scoot is close to 400 pounds.
Scooter weight does something, but little to MPG rating. Most of the time, the silent scooters have the best MPGs. Scooters or bikes that are bobbing and roaring usually have lower MPG's (like cruisers, bobbers, Harleys, and hardtails etc...).
|
|
|
|
Post by prodigit on Oct 7, 2012 10:44:48 GMT -5
Chinese bikes probably run fine as well, at least for the first 3-4000 miles or so. They don't really though do they? The tyres are not as good, the shocks are inferior, the frames are not built with the same thought, the old carbs are hopelessly outdated compared to the new EFI systems that give higher power for less fuel, and choke free starting, the brakes are not so good, cheaper dimmer headlamps, less informative gauges, cheaper seats. The Taiwanese and Japanese bikes are frankly streets ahead even before the engine is started, ignoring reliability and resale. Look into BMS and Puma. Their bikes can compete to Korean models! Though on the race track they might be inferior, for regular driving around town, they're more than good enough! |
|
|
|
Post by gregsfc on Oct 7, 2012 15:03:26 GMT -5
I get 80+MPG on my BMS TBX 260 with EFI, but only when driving 40-50MPH. Driving faster (like 70-75MPH), and the MPG goes down; and the scoot is close to 400 pounds. Scooter weight does something, but little to MPG rating. Most of the time, the silent scooters have the best MPGs. Scooters or bikes that are bobbing and roaring usually have lower MPG's (like cruisers, bobbers, Harleys, and hardtails etc...). My inquiry about power to weight ratio is in reference to comparing the power of the BV350 to maxi 400s; not comparing mpg. I'm almost sure the new BV kicks tail with regards to mpg versus the Burgy andMajesty. Alot of posts have been putting out raw numbers comparing 400s stating how they easily beat the BV, but wouldn't the lighter weight actually equalize the power disparity considerably making those raw number advantages irrelevant. |
|
