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Post by endru on Sept 9, 2012 20:16:58 GMT -5
Hi everybody. I'm new to scooters and the forum. I just bought a Puma (P.C.C.) Amor 50 last week for commuting the 2.5 mi. to work. It's a bit too slow for me to comfortably drive the one 35 mph road, and I love working on engines so I'm planning on making modifications to get the most out of my little scooter.
I've been exploring the forum here for hours and hours the last couple days and it's been a great help, so no need for me to ask "hey what should I do to go faster." At some point soon I'll just post my battle plan for what I want to do and see what everyone thinks.
In the meantime though I have two questions that I haven't been able to find on the forum. Does my stock CDI have a rev limiter? Background on the Amor 50 just in case: I found out that Puma is the North American leg of the Chinese ZNEN brand (I think my Amor is a twin of the ZNEN Revival), and as such it of course has the GY6 139QMB engine. So I've read that most imported Chinese scoots with the GY6 do not have a limited CDI, and I have not felt it kick in at the top end, but my scooter's inability to hit 30 on a flat with WOT makes me think otherwise.
Also, thinking ahead to BBK's, I'm a little hesitant to install one since I don't have a class M. I know if I were to get pulled over (as unlikely as that is) that a cop would have no way to know whether I had one installed aside from my speed, but does anyone have any advice on what to watch out for or how to handle a potential situation? Obviously not tearing through town helps to keep from getting pulled over, I'm just interested in not being a road block anymore.
Thanks in advance, this is a terrific forum, just what an ambitious noob like me needs.
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Post by rbrooks1 on Sept 9, 2012 20:40:09 GMT -5
You can easily find out if it has a rev limiter a few different ways. The easiest in my opinion is to run it wide open and when you're topped out on speed check your dashboard. If your needle is bouncing slightly, like bobbing on the highest speed you can get it, then it has a limiter in the CDI. There is a possibility you have a limiter in your CVT system. It's a washer behind your variator and it limits how far the belt can ride. You can easily Google search how to get that off. Plenty of instructional videos.
As far as big bore kits, you're safe with one. Even if you get pulled over going faster than 30mph you should be fine. Just know what to say. Also if you just happened to get clocked at the bottom of a big hill, that's an excuse right there. And the best one I've heard so far when a cop asks how you were going so fast just say, "I don't know, I just bought it", or even "I was just squeezing the throttle, I don't know the moped laws". Ignorance of the law is often times a good way out, at least for your first time being pulled. The easiest thing to do is just watch out. I, personally, have never heard of anyone in my area being busted for having a big bore kit installed, no matter what speed they got clocked at. "It's just a performance upgrade to help keep up with traffic. It's a ton safer than having people speed and swerve by me".
PS: Welcome to the forums! You're gonna love it here. Good luck, and safe scootin'.
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Post by carasdad on Sept 9, 2012 21:04:34 GMT -5
Best of wishes finding how they restrict the Znen's. Have my own repair/parts shop and last year I was a Mechanic for a dealership. We tore down an Amor and a Puma. Found no restictors. Swapped out the CDI...no better...it was lean so we upjetted...no better...tried 4 diff variator weights and looked for washer in the CVT...no better....we used a UNI filter...Hi Po exhaust and upjetted...no better...still 34-35 max. Still took like a 2 legged dog...slow. With all that on place I put an 80 BBK..and we got 42. So my only thoughts are the gearing is 'Tall'..putting a load on the engine to keep speed down. Up side is they are well made and ride smooth as a Cadillac... Not trying to bust your bubble..just informing you of what I and the 2 shop owners tried and found. Maybe we missed something...but we all but completely disassembled the Amor and the Puma....
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Post by endru on Sept 9, 2012 22:17:38 GMT -5
Thanks guys that was exactly what I needed to know. I'll watch for the bobbing needle tomorrow, don't recall noticing that though, and I spend a lot of time eyeballing the Chinometer as it is. ... Not trying to bust your bubble..just informing you of what I and the 2 shop owners tried and found. Maybe we missed something... Glad to know I'm not the first to lay my hands on an Amor 50... there wasn't a lot to be found on the forum about them. It sounds like you covered all the bases for standard mods. 42 mph is a satisfactory improvement for my likes though. I could always try for a 100cc BBK, but that starts to push my financial limits and opens up more possibilities for unreliability. I wonder what would make the Amor's GY6 engine less affected by mods than any other? Seems like others on the forum have had great success tuning their GY6's.
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Post by carasdad on Sept 9, 2012 23:11:16 GMT -5
Thanks guys that was exactly what I needed to know. I'll watch for the bobbing needle tomorrow, don't recall noticing that though, and I spend a lot of time eyeballing the Chinometer as it is. ... Not trying to bust your bubble..just informing you of what I and the 2 shop owners tried and found. Maybe we missed something... Glad to know I'm not the first to lay my hands on an Amor 50... there wasn't a lot to be found on the forum about them. It sounds like you covered all the bases for standard mods. 42 mph is a satisfactory improvement for my likes though. I could always try for a 100cc BBK, but that starts to push my financial limits and opens up more possibilities for unreliability. I wonder what would make the Amor's GY6 engine less affected by mods than any other? Seems like others on the forum have had great success tuning their GY6's. The big bore did help....but do know...because of the frame design getting the head and cylinder off...is tight quarters. Also remember if you do a big bore..you have an EGR head..so if use the head that comes with the kit...you will need one of these to block off the port. www.motopartsdealer.com/second-air-injection-block-cover-set-for-50cc150cc-moped-and-15-p-1261.html
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Post by skuttadawg on Sept 10, 2012 1:58:46 GMT -5
Even with unlimited CDI and other mods a 49cc engine can only do so much , and less if your a big guy . Its easy to do mild tweaks but if you go wild and push it to or beyonds its limits plan on failure .
If you get a 2T they are much faster out of the crate and easier to work on since less parts .
With a BBK take off and uphill will be faster but top end most likely will be the same as its the gears that are the factor . Now a BBK will not have to work as hard to hit top speed and may last longer since it has more power .
If you have the eligibility to get a motorcycle license then why not do so ? Its actually easier of a road test than that of a car . I laugh when I have mentioned it to some who had a car license and were nervous about going for a MC license . I had a moped license at 14 and MC at 16 , and didnt have a car license until 18 . I had many two wheelers and so many friends with cars I didnt need it . I bought my first car at 18 .
When I had a moped tag on my 50 I got so much " Get off the road "hate and labeled a DUI offender as many ignorant cagers do us . When I put a MC tag on it I have not gotten any hate and not under moped limitations of 30 MPH . Here in SC cops have been hating on those with moped tags going over 30 MPH . What kills me is those with a 150 and a moped tag which is illegal and its so cheap to get a tag and insurance much cheaper than the fines . In SC if you get caught driving uninsured you go to jail and vehicle impounded
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Post by carasdad on Sept 10, 2012 7:31:23 GMT -5
Even with unlimited CDI and other mods a 49cc engine can only do so much , and less if your a big guy . Its easy to do mild tweaks but if you go wild and push it to or beyonds its limits plan on failure . If you get a 2T they are much faster out of the crate and easier to work on since less parts . With a BBK take off and uphill will be faster but top end most likely will be the same as its the gears that are the factor . Now a BBK will not have to work as hard to hit top speed and may last longer since it has more power . If you have the eligibility to get a motorcycle license then why not do so ? Its actually easier of a road test than that of a car . I laugh when I have mentioned it to some who had a car license and were nervous about going for a MC license . I had a moped license at 14 and MC at 16 , and didnt have a car license until 18 . I had many two wheelers and so many friends with cars I didnt need it . I bought my first car at 18 . When I had a moped tag on my 50 I got so much " Get off the road "hate and labeled a DUI offender as many ignorant cagers do us . When I put a MC tag on it I have not gotten any hate and not under moped limitations of 30 MPH . Here in SC cops have been hating on those with moped tags going over 30 MPH . What kills me is those with a 150 and a moped tag which is illegal and its so cheap to get a tag and insurance much cheaper than the fines . In SC if you get caught driving uninsured you go to jail and vehicle impounded Funny...that is what I did to get my MC endorsement...used a 150 scooter cause I knew the cone course would be easier with that...than using my Hayabusa...
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Post by endru on Sept 10, 2012 21:06:42 GMT -5
If you have the eligibility to get a motorcycle license then why not do so ? Long story short, I needed a 2nd vehicle on short notice, just to get me to work and back, and I'd been looking into scooters ever since I got back from Germany. Just haven't had the time to get my class M yet, but that's the plan sometime in the next 6 months. In the meantime, I have this scoot to work with, and if I can get it to where it needs to be then I'll have it for the long run. Just got back from Harbor Freight to load up on tools. I was going to bust open my crankcase cover to check for a washer on the CVT, but I ran out of time. More updates on that tomorrow.
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Post by endru on Sept 12, 2012 5:14:48 GMT -5
I pulled off the CVT last night and like Carasdad said there was no washer. Kind of a bummer, I was hoping there might be something I can do to get my top speed higher. I've also been looking for the bouncing speedo needle, no luck there either so it doesn't appear to have a rev limiter on the CDI.
On the plus side, I got over that initial scary part of having to yank off the variator nut. That was NOT easy!
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Post by coreylafferty on Sept 12, 2012 8:54:42 GMT -5
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Post by endru on Sept 12, 2012 19:15:28 GMT -5
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Post by carasdad on Sept 12, 2012 20:05:03 GMT -5
Old timers besides me will tell you...one piece at a time..that way when you have a problem...the last thing you did..is what caused the problem. Scooters are NOT like Crockpots..where you can toss 10 things in at once..and come out with a nice stew. Do that with a scooter and...well...you will see what happens. You will be on here every hour trying to get it right...
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Post by derbi on Sept 12, 2012 20:32:43 GMT -5
Old timers besides me will tell you...one piece at a time..that way when you have a problem...the last thing you did..is what caused the problem. Scooters are NOT like Crockpots..where you can toss 10 things in at once..and come out with a nice stew. Do that with a scooter and...well...you will see what happens. You will be on here every hour trying to get it right... Excellent advice i agree 100 %
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Post by endru on Sept 12, 2012 21:43:51 GMT -5
Old timers besides me will tell you...one piece at a time. Note to self: mess up one thing at a time, not everything all at once Seriously though, thanks for the good advice.
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Post by millsc on Sept 12, 2012 22:31:55 GMT -5
i bought every piece one at time with good results not sure if im a old timer at 37 i feel young lol
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Post by carasdad on Sept 12, 2012 22:39:41 GMT -5
i bought every piece one at time with good results not sure if im a old timer at 37 i feel young lol 1 piece at a time installed and tested as you did + 37 = young and wise..
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Post by grassulo on Sept 13, 2012 6:36:29 GMT -5
On the plus side, I got over that initial scary part of having to yank off the variator nut. That was NOT easy! An impact wrench is a worthwhile investment. Along with a flywheel puller. Also beware of cheap Ebay BBK's you get what you pay for.
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Post by endru on Sept 13, 2012 17:55:04 GMT -5
An impact wrench is a worthwhile investment. Along with a flywheel puller. Yeah that's the only way I was finally able to get the nut off. I tried for about 30 minutes with a long wrench on the nut and a 10mm wrench wedged between the teeth on the CVT and the crankcase (thanks youtube). Watching my 10mm bend and my crankcase get gouged up was finally enough for me and I just went and bought the impact wrench at harbor freight. Problem solved.
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Post by derbi on Sept 13, 2012 17:57:31 GMT -5
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Post by endru on Sept 13, 2012 21:45:52 GMT -5
Awesome thanks. I had a manual I found online but this one is a bit more extensive.
That reminds me of something I wanted to ask about. I was looking through the manual to see if this was normal. When I opened up the crank cover for the first time, a little bit of water came hissing and bubbling out of some of the bolts as I undid them. Kinda freaked me out at first. I guess in hindsight though it was probably just the pressure/humidity difference between here and China where it was manufactured.
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Post by jdikov on Sept 17, 2012 17:38:26 GMT -5
We have been importing ZNEN scooters for about 6 years now and they do not put any sort of restrictors on their scoots. The reason you hear some others say their 49cc goes 40mph is because they already have a BBK installed in it but don't know it. Tao Tao and Peace are notorious for brigin in scoots with 62cc and 72cc kits already on them to increase performance. They get cought from time to time and it costs them big $$$. I think Tao Tao just got done dealing with customs recently with that issue.
BBKs are not expensive. We sell ours retail for $99 delivered price to your door. Just have to tell us which valve length you need when you order. That is probably the best performance enhancement you can make. You can spend lots of money doing clutches, exhausts, variators etc but nothing will give you the same bang for the buck like a BBK. Irridium plug also helps.
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Post by carasdad on Sept 17, 2012 18:21:45 GMT -5
We have been importing ZNEN scooters for about 6 years now and they do not put any sort of restrictors on their scoots. The reason you hear some others say their 49cc goes 40mph is because they already have a BBK installed in it but don't know it. Tao Tao and Peace are notorious for brigin in scoots with 62cc and 72cc kits already on them to increase performance. They get cought from time to time and it costs them big $$$. I think Tao Tao just got done dealing with customs recently with that issue. BBKs are not expensive. We sell ours retail for $99 delivered price to your door. Just have to tell us which valve length you need when you order. That is probably the best performance enhancement you can make. You can spend lots of money doing clutches, exhausts, variators etc but nothing will give you the same bang for the buck like a BBK. Irridium plug also helps. Yes...our 'Gubbment' put an end to TaoTao 'secret 63' scoots. There will be no more they say. Znen makes a good scoot...buddy own a shop and I used to do repairs for him. They ride like a Cadillac...smooth and easy. No rattles...clangs..bangs loose fitting parts etc...like the $499.00 crappy MC_JL4 scooterdepot sells....that folks bring to my shop for repairs and parts. One day a guy that wanted a BBK on his...he was trying to barter me down in price.... only willing to pay right at my wholesale price for the parts. I said No can do...find another shop...and besides the cost of the parts alone are worth more than your scooter itself. Never rude to customers...but he just kept getting on my nerves.
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Post by endru on Sept 21, 2012 20:17:57 GMT -5
BBKs are not expensive. We sell ours retail for $99 delivered price to your door. John, do you sell a larger BBK than 72cc? I prefer buying from online stores like you instead of Ebay, but when I see a bigger kit on Ebay for $60 shipped, it's hard to look the other way. Unfortunately there's never any brand names on these kits, so how do I know whether one kit will outperform the other? Even if the cheaper kit would presumably wear out 3,000 mi. earlier, the cheaper kit is still an overall better purchase if it's costing half as much. Either way, buying a BBK will be one of my later purchases, I'm starting small and working my way up: 5 or 6 g sliders, then iridium plug, then a UNI intake and perf. exhaust including an upjet to a #85, and after that a BBK.
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Post by millsc on Sept 21, 2012 22:27:09 GMT -5
ive installed several ebay kits with no ill effects got two in my front room now to install tomorow
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Post by psychedelicode on Sept 21, 2012 22:31:11 GMT -5
As far as BBK's and legality goes, I have had mine impounded for speeding. 40+ on a scoot. They rode it to make sure it could not exceed 30 and put a big gurl on it for the test ride. Pulled the shroud to check the cylinder stamp and that was it. There are plenty of BBKs that are larger than 49 and still say they are (I just recently learned).... I have test ridden the ZNEN Grimace 50/Motorino Supremo. Such a nice ride, well built (I inspected the frame build and got to see one that was in the shop), handled well, great brakes, big enough that I did not feel cramped. The only way I could see them being restricted is maybe in head or exhaust. The one I rode felt ok for a stock 50 however. I did notice that the intake was bigger though in the engine setup. The intake tubing from the airbox to the carb was not tapered like on the tao tao cy50t3, it maintained a constant diameter through its length. Maybe this could be a type of restriction to reduce intake velocity in favor of volume? The T3 was noticibly faster, It also had smaller tires, The T3 uses 100/60-12 Which have a diameter of less than 18 inches which means that they will fit on a short case motor. I cannot confirm that the t3 uses a short case (i dont want to walk into the local scoot shop with a tape measure going loco without the intention of buying something). But the znen uses 120/70-12 which have an overall diameter of 18.59in. They are also known to have even larger 13" wheels and they are known also in the 2t version to be the Wasp as carasdad rides. I feel the increase in wheel/tire size may be used to overgear alot of 50cc 4t scoots in order to meet speed regulations. I doubt the CDI is restricted. I have tried various stock cdi's, I can make valves float with all of them.
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Post by carasdad on Sept 21, 2012 22:43:02 GMT -5
As far as BBK's and legality goes, I have had mine impounded for speeding. 40+ on a scoot. They rode it to make sure it could not exceed 30 and put a big gurl on it for the test ride. Pulled the shroud to check the cylinder stamp and that was it. There are plenty of BBKs that are larger than 49 and still say they are (I just recently learned).... I have test ridden the ZNEN Grimace 50/Motorino Supremo. Such a nice ride, well built (I inspected the frame build and got to see one that was in the shop), handled well, great brakes, big enough that I did not feel cramped. The only way I could see them being restricted is maybe in head or exhaust. The one I rode felt ok for a stock 50 however. I did notice that the intake was bigger though in the engine setup. The intake tubing from the airbox to the carb was not tapered like on the tao tao cy50t3, it maintained a constant diameter through its length. Maybe this could be a type of restriction to reduce intake velocity in favor of volume? The T3 was noticibly faster, It also had smaller tires, The T3 uses 100/60-12 Which have a diameter of less than 18 inches which means that they will fit on a short case motor. I cannot confirm that the t3 uses a short case (i dont want to walk into the local scoot shop with a tape measure going loco without the intention of buying something). But the znen uses 120/70-12 which have an overall diameter of 18.59in. They are also known to have even larger 13" wheels and they are known also in the 2t version to be the Wasp as carasdad rides. I feel the increase in wheel/tire size may be used to overgear alot of 50cc 4t scoots in order to meet speed regulations. I doubt the CDI is restricted. I have tried various stock cdi's, I can make valves float with all of them. Impounded?...what did that cost to get back?. All the 4 stroke 80 kits and the 2 stroke BBK for my Wasp are marked 49.75cc on the cylinder. Not sure about the Ebay 100cc.. millsc...are the 100cc BBK's marked 49.75 on the cylinder block like the 80 kits are?..
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Post by millsc on Sept 21, 2012 22:47:33 GMT -5
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Post by millsc on Sept 21, 2012 23:02:50 GMT -5
zoom zoom ;D Attachments:
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Post by endru on Sept 22, 2012 7:31:35 GMT -5
As far as BBK's and legality goes, I have had mine impounded for speeding. 40+ on a scoot. They rode it to make sure it could not exceed 30 and put a big gurl on it for the test ride. Pulled the shroud to check the cylinder stamp and that was it. On my way to work I regularly get passed by high school students on heavily modded 2t mopeds, no helmets, going 40+. I know the students, and they say cops have never given them a hard time. Still I'm also curious what it cost to get your scoot back, and if they fined you as well.
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Post by psychedelicode on Sept 22, 2012 8:23:31 GMT -5
It cost $200 in impound fees and tow fee. I got issued a ticket for operating a unsafe vehicle. (bent steering stem). Thread here: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=53618&page=1That was out around my cottage, Here in the city I have only been pulled over for doing the obviously illegal, like riding two up on 50cc. I actually was taking the ticket to court next week after I fixed my steering stem, But, since none of the replacements I ordered have fit properly, I have to pay the fine...phooey. Maybe I'll get lucky and the cop won't show or something
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