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Post by bwader on Aug 19, 2012 20:31:37 GMT -5
I had been riding with a stock variator for a while with 16 gram sliders and top speed was 54-55mph around 7,500-7600 rpms WOT. Now with the $40 racing variator with same 16 gram sliders my top speed range increased to 55-57mph at 6,900 rpms WOT. Tempted to pull it apart and put in 14 gram Dr. Pulley rollers and get a little faster and closer to 7,500 rpms WOT. But I don't care too much about acceleration, it's about saving more on gas mileage and my engine.  |
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Post by acntvman on Aug 19, 2012 20:42:18 GMT -5
14 or 15 g sliders will bring your rpm back up.
John
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Post by pucho on Aug 19, 2012 21:17:40 GMT -5
what size motor do you have? 50cc 150cc?
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Post by pucho on Aug 19, 2012 21:18:29 GMT -5
my bad just saw your description.
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Post by petrol42 on Aug 20, 2012 22:27:11 GMT -5
Where did you get this variator?
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 20, 2012 22:50:48 GMT -5
I had been riding with a stock variator for a while with 16 gram sliders and top speed was 54-55mph around 7,500-7600 rpms WOT. Now with the $40 racing variator with same 16 gram sliders my top speed range increased to 55-57mph at 6,900 rpms WOT. Tempted to pull it apart and put in 14 gram Dr. Pulley rollers and get a little faster and closer to 7,500 rpms WOT. But I don't care too much about acceleration, it's about saving more on gas mileage and my engine. if you dont need any more speed then leave it alone if your happy. i had to upgrade because most cars run around 60 and up on the 45 mph main rd that i usually ride on ,and i hated when people road my ass.  |
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Post by bwader on Aug 23, 2012 15:31:46 GMT -5
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Post by acntvman on Aug 23, 2012 16:12:50 GMT -5
Be careful the belt doesn't shred.
John
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Post by bwader on Aug 26, 2012 23:01:42 GMT -5
I've checked it since, belt looks fine still. I didn't put too deep of scratches in it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 2:08:53 GMT -5
No...
And I realize this is an old thread but perhaps you are correct when it comes to slider weights, however the below has been my experience:
The way the variator and the weights work it all spins straight off the engine's crankshaft so the engine rpm's directly affects its function, in short as the engine increases rpm's the sliders / rollers start to push outwards from inside the variator thus causing the belt to ride OUT the face and IN on the rear clutch which effectively changes your scooter's gear-ratio on the fly.
The weight of these sliders / rollers works against the force of the clutch spring in the rear, it takes centrifugal force (RPM's) to move the weights outwards.
So it isn't heavier weights for lower rpm's nor is it lighter weights giving higher rpm's at all.
HEAVIER weights take HIGHER Rpms to move outwards, it takes more engine power to work heavier weights against the rear clutch spring hence the belt shifts into higher gear LATER so you end up with HIGHER RPM's during acceleration.
TOO heavy a weight and your engine will Rev OUT.
LIGHTER weights take LESS Rpm's before they move OUT, thus you end up with LOWER RPM's during acceleration. TOO light a weight and your engine can't develop enough RPM's for acceleration thus resulting in poor performance.
If you want MORE Rpm's during acceleration then you need HEAVIER weights, and vice versa.
The trick now...
These engines have a power curve, there is actually a diagram on the performance CDI's that tell you the RPM's at which optimal power is gained, that is the power curve... So long MOST of the scooter's acceleration is happening with the engine RPM's inside of the power curve rpm's no further modification is needed.
If the engine is accelerating below its power curve (meaning the RPM's aren't high enough) then switching to a 1 gram HEAVIER slider should help.
If the engine is accelerating above the power curve (meaning the RPM's are too high) then switching to a 1 gram LIGHTER slider should help.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 31, 2012 4:55:46 GMT -5
That is backwards. The heavier weights create more clamping pressure against the ramp plates reaching their limit of travel sooner than the lighter weights and will require more belt tension to drive them back down again. Take an empty bucket tied to a short rope and swing it around and see how little centrifugal force it exerts even when your spin it as fast as you can. Now fill that bucket with a few cups of water. It now pulls away from you with much greater force. With variator weights it works the same way. Heavier weights generate more centrifugal pull away from center than lighter weights across the entire range of rpm. The weights are in grams not pounds and there are only 6 of them which is not enough inertial mass to greatly effect acceleration on their own.
Select weights that are too light and the variator will never develop enough clamping pressure against the drive faces to close up completely to reach maximum speed.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 31, 2012 5:04:23 GMT -5
I went with the next model up Hoca with the modified ramp plate angles along with the matching drive face. Night and day difference over a generic or stock variator. Greater top speed and down shifts were phenominal. At heavy throttle below 45 mph the variator would open up and the bike would pull like that proverbial bat some people talk about. Could get to 45 mph before you got across a major intersection. |
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 31, 2012 6:31:18 GMT -5
That is backwards. The heavier weights create more clamping pressure against the ramp plates reaching their limit of travel sooner than the lighter weights and will require more belt tension to drive them back down again. Take an empty bucket tied to a short rope and swing it around and see how little centrifical force it exerts even when your spin it as fast as you can. Now fill that bucket with a few cups of water. It now pulls away from you with much greater force. With variator weights it works the same way. Heavier weights generate more centrifical pull away from center than lighter weights across the entire range of rpm. The weights are in grams not pounds and there are only 6 of them which is not enough inertial mass to greatly effect acceleration on their own. Select weights that are too light and the variator will never develop enough clamping pressure against the drive faces to close up completely to reach maximum speed. nice catch , and very polite correction . John |
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Post by carasdad on Dec 31, 2012 9:09:34 GMT -5
That is backwards. The heavier weights create more clamping pressure against the ramp plates reaching their limit of travel sooner than the lighter weights and will require more belt tension to drive them back down again. Take an empty bucket tied to a short rope and swing it around and see how little centrifical force it exerts even when your spin it as fast as you can. Now fill that bucket with a few cups of water. It now pulls away from you with much greater force. With variator weights it works the same way. Heavier weights generate more centrifical pull away from center than lighter weights across the entire range of rpm. The weights are in grams not pounds and there are only 6 of them which is not enough inertial mass to greatly effect acceleration on their own. Select weights that are too light and the variator will never develop enough clamping pressure against the drive faces to close up completely to reach maximum speed. Hey...excellent analogy with the bucket..gonna use that to explain it to customers that tend to argue the subject.....yet bring the scoot in for repair/upgrade cause they don't know how...they just heard a rumor from Billy Bob's cousins..sisters uncle...etc. |
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Post by dyoung1167 on Dec 31, 2012 9:15:11 GMT -5
yes, almost too polite. i want to rant a little but there is a rock in my way. haha.
and a polite spelling correction - centrifugal force
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 31, 2012 9:28:20 GMT -5
yes, almost too polite. i want to rant a little but there is a rock in my way. haha. and a polite spelling correction - centrifugal force I thought I spelled "polite" wrong I went and checked . lol John |
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Post by rockynv on Dec 31, 2012 14:21:16 GMT -5
I thought afterwards that I needed to tone it down. Was in a rush but didn't want folks to start ordering weights that would give results opposite what they desired.
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 31, 2012 15:58:26 GMT -5
I have the same variator for sale , rollers and sliders from 9g-18g .If I get questioned, my first question is what the riders weight is and what they want to change .
John
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Post by scootercapecod on Dec 31, 2012 18:14:01 GMT -5
Great subject anyway, and I'm glad I got to read the thread because I'm thinking of going to a 115mm variator as well but seeing as my scoot already does 60+ I'm not sure if I would truthfully gain much and honestly I don't need the speed, it's just around here people go 75 in a 50 MPH zone and I don't like the idea of becoming someone's hood ornament. (for the younger crowd, cars were graced with emblems at the front of the car, mostly for decoration when i was a bit younger) All that aside, it may help takeoff a little more etc, I weigh 230, any suggestions?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 2:25:50 GMT -5
I appreciate that correction, sorry I get very excited, thank you for being polite, I only realized my mistake well after the fact...
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Post by jazzman on Jan 3, 2013 2:39:58 GMT -5
Now that is the way someone should take it when being corrected YOU DA MAN 8307c4.
I do that and I am polite as well because I know some do not like to be corrected and I always end up in a pissing match as some of you have already read in some of the threads(HAHA).
But Just go back and correct it because you did write up a very nice explaination.
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