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Post by marvinlee on Jul 14, 2012 23:33:00 GMT -5
What does everybody think about using Non-ethonal gas Vrs the crap that says "May contain up to 10% ethonal gas,". I'm supposed to use 91 or higher. I feel the corn syrup crap effects the engines overall performance. Anybody want to chime in on this topic, feel free. Marvin.
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Post by inkyben on Jul 15, 2012 0:12:42 GMT -5
There are only 2 places that offer non ethanol where I'm at and thankfully one of them is less than 2 miles from my house lol. Ethanol is known to soften metals and that alone is a red flag to not use it in my book.
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Post by skuttadawg on Jul 15, 2012 6:52:38 GMT -5
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Post by larry001964 on Jul 15, 2012 7:29:25 GMT -5
It really is getting harder to avoid getting Ethanol fuel.. It really does as the others said, softens metals, causes gas lines not designed specifically for it to dissolve..
The best thing you can do for your scoot, is to change the rubber gas lines to the type designed to withstand Ethanol... Many auto part stores carry it..
I have a back up carb, and all my fuel and vacuum lines have been changed. I even got rid of the rubber O ring on my intake boot and went to a flat gasket type. I don't see this situation getting any better in the near future. So best to prepare for it as best you can..
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Post by SylvreKat on Jul 15, 2012 13:15:48 GMT -5
No Larry, it's supposed to be getting worser instead. Our great politijerks in DC want to require an even higher percentage of crapanol. I'm just going to start sending all car repair bills to my senators and reps and let them pay for every gas-created repair. Or else let them buy me a new(er) wagon. Their choice.
What's sad is it's a totally pointless requirement. It saves nothing (you use more gas to get the same result, no gain there). It's really not buying more corn (esp right now with the drought). Gas companies dislike it (Shell has to include additives to help counter the crapanol's effects; others probably do likewise). Lord knows pop companies hate it (where's their corn going? Into cars' gas tanks instead of their sodas). Only folks who like it are the politijerks pretending it's an answer to global warming and all other environmental issues remotely related to cars.
(sorry you got me started, Marvin?)
I don't really have much option for pure gas nearby, so I stick with Shell, or BP if I'm not near a Shell. At least their gas isn't as crapaholly as, say, ConocoPhillips or (shudder) QT.
>'Kat
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Post by larry001964 on Jul 15, 2012 13:53:46 GMT -5
Hi Kat,
I know it's getting worse.. Where I live there are three stations, No BP, No Shell, and all of them have ethanol.. Unless I'm willing to drive 20 miles to a bigger town these are my choices... I competely agree with you on burning more fuel and getting less power because of Ethanol's lower BTU's, I won't argue with you about the detrimental effects on our environment caused by the waste created by the production of ethanol. And yes this drought is definitely having an very bad effect on Indiana farmers ( as im sure others ), that I'm sure we will be feeling in higher prices across the board.
But none the less when I go to the station, that's whats there, that's what I have to use, and that's what I need to design my scoot to use ( Hate it as I may ).. As for the politijerks well November's coming.. Remember the politijerks by name..
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Post by SylvreKat on Jul 15, 2012 14:55:24 GMT -5
Hey Larry, what if you and all your neighbours get together and ask one of the gas station owners to make one grade crapanol-free. You guys promise to mostly buy your gas from his station; he promises to supply you with one pure-gas option.
A deal like this would benefit both sides. Seems to me one of them would go for it.
Otherwise, I suppose you can always resort to gas additives yourself....
>'Kat
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Post by larry001964 on Jul 15, 2012 15:24:31 GMT -5
I don't know Kat, I could suggest it to the stations owners and see what happends, Fawkes can be pretty finicky when it come to his fuel.. There is one station in town who's fuel Fawkes finds acceptable the other two no. I'm not sure about the additive idea, as I said he is finicky.... And when you put real premium fuel in him you can immediately feel the difference in power, and starting.. He's like me with coca cola...... He loves the real thing..
LOL just my luck.
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Post by slimshady on Jul 15, 2012 16:22:59 GMT -5
Ethonal or non Ethonal Gas When I bought my scooter. The salesman told me that the ethonal in the gas was one of the biggest causes for needed repairs. I have be unable to locate any stations with non ethonal gas. So i have been using racing fuel, Its not cheep at 8.99 a gal
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Post by SylvreKat on Jul 15, 2012 17:24:03 GMT -5
Larry, my wagon knows the difference. Folks try to tell me gas is gas. I explain that when I fill up at Shell or BP, we get 16-20 typically, mixed town and hwy. When I use ConocoPhillips, we get 12 mpg. Tell me there's no diff. Bah.
At least it's better than a Hummer's 8 mpg hwy.
I still think it's worth an ask. Worse that happens, the owners say no. And there's always the chance one'll say yes.
>'Kat
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Post by marvinlee on Jul 15, 2012 19:52:40 GMT -5
There are a few stations here in Idaho with non- ethonal , gas. One I willing to drive too , except all they have is 87, the others are account based. Can I run 87 in my 250cc duke and then put Seafoam or an octane boost to make up the difference ? Anybody do this method ? Thanks,Marvin.
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Post by reynoldston on Jul 15, 2012 21:46:47 GMT -5
The best of luck if you can find non ethanol gas. As far as I know there is no such thing where I live. The same for racing fuel. We use race fuel for our pulling tractors but its very hard to find and the only way we can get it is we know someone who can still get it but they buy it in large amount and it was more like 12.00 a gallon. We need it for them because we are running a 12 to 1 compression.
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Post by WarrenS on Jul 16, 2012 8:05:19 GMT -5
There are a few stations here in Idaho with non- ethonal , gas. One I willing to drive too , except all they have is 87, the others are account based. Can I run 87 in my 250cc duke and then put Seafoam or an octane boost to make up the difference ? Anybody do this method ? Thanks,Marvin. Give 87 a try. My Burgman and Morphous run on it. The Chinese 91 is equal to 87 US anyway. |
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Post by skuttadawg on Jul 16, 2012 9:06:50 GMT -5
Add octane booster if you can only get 87
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Post by SylvreKat on Jul 17, 2012 22:44:19 GMT -5
Just fyi for anybody near Nebraska City--there's a Shell station with clean gas low and high grades; their mid-grade has crapanol (with a nice "good for Iowa" sticker proclaiming it so--yeah, good for you, Iowa, for believing and promoting the lie about crapanol) It's off the highway, just before the interchange with the other interstate. Hey, don't blame me, I wasn't driving!
Btb, why are towns named for states they're not in?
>'Kat
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Post by justpassinthru on Jul 18, 2012 0:11:49 GMT -5
The amusing thing is, in Ethanol Country, where they grow the corn and government money grows the ethanol plants...many gas stations still sell booze-free gasoline.
The farmers KNOW...that stuff is murder on their equipment. They're happy to sell their corn to whoever will pay for it; but they're not living their lives to prove their fealty to environmental dogma.
They run their cars and trucks and small engines with STRAIGHT GAS.
Wisconsin; Minnesota; South Dakota. Ask around; pay attention. Major retailers sell straight gas, in various grades.
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Post by chromestarhustler on Jul 18, 2012 0:25:50 GMT -5
ethanol isnt really bad for stuff.
it doesnt soften metal, but is corrosive to unplated metal.
anything old thats not outfitted with ethanol resistant hose, and plastic, and some fiberglass will crack with time and extended exposure.
ethanol is cleaner burning than gas, carries some oxygen with it to support combustion, but has less btu of energy per unit.
i have ran a straight ethanol car on the street when i could get a 55 gal drum for 62 dollars when i lived in kansas near a ethanol plant, about a buck a gal for it, and a few dollars for the drum.
the only place in new mexico to get Pure gas is at a small engine shop (6.00 a gal) because a lot of the rubber gaskets arent ethanol safe, which is why a new mower only lasts 3 years before the carb needs a rebuild.
all gas comes from the same refineries, the difference in "brands" is the additives, like techron, supermotive clean, philco clean run.
otherwise if you have an a&p license you can go to the airport and get avgas 100, its ethanol free.
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Post by puttputt on Jul 18, 2012 3:40:31 GMT -5
I just found this website that should be of interest. Just pick your state and then nearby cities and it lists locations and octanes available. Would 90 octane pure gas be appropriate? pure-gas.org/ |
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Post by nulldevice on Jul 18, 2012 23:46:59 GMT -5
Straight ethanol from the distiller?  Wow! 200 proof moonshine, for a buck a gallon, by the barrel. ;D ethanol isnt really bad for stuff. it doesnt soften metal, but is corrosive to unplated metal. anything old thats not outfitted with ethanol resistant hose, and plastic, and some fiberglass will crack with time and extended exposure. ethanol is cleaner burning than gas, carries some oxygen with it to support combustion, but has less btu of energy per unit. i have ran a straight ethanol car on the street when i could get a 55 gal drum for 62 dollars when i lived in kansas near a ethanol plant, about a buck a gal for it, and a few dollars for the drum. the only place in new mexico to get Pure gas is at a small engine shop (6.00 a gal) because a lot of the rubber gaskets arent ethanol safe, which is why a new mower only lasts 3 years before the carb needs a rebuild. all gas comes from the same refineries, the difference in "brands" is the additives, like techron, supermotive clean, philco clean run. otherwise if you have an a&p license you can go to the airport and get avgas 100, its ethanol free. |
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Post by marvinlee on Jul 19, 2012 1:47:17 GMT -5
Well I've ran Non ethonal 87 + octane boost. In my opinion the duke 250 seems to be running smoother, on the accel, and deceleration as well. It's not so damn shakey so to speak. Off topic, does any body know what ratchet size fits the spark plug? 19mm is a tad to big. I'm going to switch to Ngk iridium . My make is a 2008 lance duke 250cc thanks, Marv.
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Post by lavoyermn on Oct 8, 2012 2:20:50 GMT -5
In Minnesota we can get 91 with out the ethano
Look up hot rod clubs they list where to get the right gas the old cars have to use the nonethano gas check with a VW dealer and see what they say about the gas
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Post by rockynv on Oct 8, 2012 4:29:15 GMT -5
Lets see put in 10% ethanol and get 20% fewer mpg so that to go the same distance you went with 100 gallons of gasoline you need to purchase 120 gallons of ethanol so you are now burning 109 gallons of gasoline allong with 11 gallons of corn alcohol. It also can damage your entire fuel system. Who's got a problem with that?
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Post by chaz12 on Oct 8, 2012 12:41:12 GMT -5
My gas is 10 percent ethanol.. There may be non ethanol in 91 octane gas, or not.. So it is better you change hoses, rubber parts, ect every once in a while. Now some hoses have been on my scooter since new, for over 4 years and runs good still. Other hoses like my fuel line has been changed twice, some of air intake changed, fuel filter changed, ect.. but eventually my carb will need replacing- $190 carb... It is the way life is on ethonol.. Also other parts deal with the ethanol- parts like intake, the exhaust system, ect..
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Post by gregsfc on Oct 12, 2012 16:29:29 GMT -5
The energy density difference is about 30%, so if one is running E10 in the tank, which is 95% of all the gas available out there, one should lose about 3% mpg. Personally, I usually fill up ethanol free. I find stations from the website linked above, but my last tank was E10 and my mpg went from 71 to 67.5 but there could be other factors, i.e. gasoline brand.
This problem is entirely the result of the unintended consequences of the Energy Independence and Security Act 2007.
The law is meant to boost renewable fuels and other renewable energy sources by requiring minimum renewable fuel standards (RFS) that fuel distributors must blend into petroleum-based fuels. The problem with ethanol evolved for two main reasons: (1) The E85 market did not take off like the government and the ethanol industry analysts expected it to, and the minimum standard was set in the law based on those high expectations for the future E85 market. As everyone knows now, most people are uninterested in E85, primarily because, even though it might be slightly cheaper per gallon, most people can do simple math and don't want a fuel that results in a 25% loss in mpg. (2) our current dilemma of not being able to find pure gas has to do with the fact that the DoE thought that switch grass would be a new source for billions of gallons of ethanol per year in the near future, but after many years, and extensive study using real farmers, by the Oak Ridge National Laboratory (one of two research arms of the DoE), there has not been an economically viable way to bring ethanol to market via switch grass in a profitable way.
So what we are dealing with now is not the fault of anyone in the petroleum industry or retail owners, or even the renewable fuel industry. The problem we have now is that the Congress misjudged Americans' affection with ethanol and devised a bad law, at least as it applies to ethanol blended into gasoline, and they have done nothing to fix it. The intent of the law was not to force E10 on all of us, but since the RFS must be met by law, distributors have no choice other than to blend 10% ethanol into virtually all gas. What we need is a change to the law, especially since now, corn is in short supply and meeting the RFS will soon add to the cost of gas and to the cost of food.
From my perspective though, some parts of the law are working as intended. Biodiesel blended into diesel fuel seems to be working very well. In biodiesel's infancy, there were some quality issues and operational concerns by fleet managers, but after all of this seems to have been worked out, biodiesel is turning out to be an excellent renewable fuel to blend into diesel stocks. The best thing about biodiesel is that it is 100% drop in technology. No need to modify engines to run high blends, and since biodiesel is 88% as energy dense and results in less plunger barrel loss in diesel engines, pure biodisel will usually result in only 6-8 percent mpg loss. Using a popular blend, like B20, should result in no more than about a 1.8% fuel economy loss. Another way to look at it, biodisel is about as energy dense as gasoline or jet fuel.
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Post by kutch on Oct 15, 2012 12:05:03 GMT -5
There is a website I use to locate stations that sell REAL GAS. It is not 100% accurate, but pretty close. And it's the best alternative I know of. www.buyrealgas.com/If a station is not listed that you know, submit it. I did that for a local station after lamenting to someone about not finding real gas, and then he enlightened me so I submitted it and week later it was on the site. Edit: Before I posted my link didn't notice the link from putputt (http://pure-gas.org/), several posts higher. It has many more stations listed. |
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Wow! 200 proof moonshine, for a buck a gallon, by the barrel. ;D
