Linhai Vog 260 Starting problem

[OverReved]

Jul 27, 2012 6:33:21 GMT -5 EPAhater said:

From a completely technical perspective... using both switches at the same time will distribute the load that the starter solenoid places on the switches and make them last longer electrically.

So where did you come up with that bright idea? The amp load of the brake light bulbs and stater relay is not enough to create any such problem.

After the switch is engaged the current flows down one single wire (usually yellow/green) and heads to the starter relay and brake light/s.

This theory of yours has no validity or merit and if you knew anything about electrical you would know so.

And by your own admission you don't know anything about electrical.

Where did I come up with that bright idea? If you'd think about it for a moment you'd maybe recognize it as basic theory of ohms law being applied not to mention exactly how "scooters" function.

"After the switch is engaged the current flows down one single wire (usually yellow/green) and heads to the starter relay and brake light/s. " as you exactly said.
The reason it makes sense "electrically" to use both switches is to distribute the load across both switches. That would split the demand placed on any one switch to both of them, It's like using a bigger switch, your current carrying capability just increased.

You can say that the load of any of these components doesn't typically add up to a hill of beans and I'd agree as long as your bulb socket, or starter solenoid, or a wire carrying battery voltage doesn't meet a low resistance load like a short to ground.

Back on subject brake switches go bad , corrosion is one thing you mentioned as a failure type and since people wash their bikes or ride in the rain or they get rained on the brake switch may corrode- as you said. Corrosion if you are an electron in a scooter wire means resistance, resistance at a component, like a brake lamp switch, means you go from being a conductor to being a resistor. Resistors when you apply electrical magic stuff to them tend to heat up. Your corroded scooter brake lamp switch just became a heater, now every time you use it it will heat up, eventually it will fail. ( remember I made a crazy claim that you can make them last longer even if they are failing and you have no clue they are)
You've just set up a series of events that you said yourself is common. Heck I saw a guy post the other day that he's replaced 3 rear brake switches and two front ones. Must be a common thing.

I said using two switches at the same time would make them last longer "from a completely technical perspective...electrically" and it would.
If you had two switches and both were corroded they'd have high resistance that same resistance that you know.. heats things up when current passes through them. Oh I already said that.
Ohms law which is something everyone who messes with electricity these days understands to some unknown degree says when you have two resistances(corroded brake switches) in parallel( like on a scooter!) and measure their conductivity(what with a DVOM- the magical ohms law in a box thing?) you will find that their total resistance( that's using both switches at the same time) will be less ( LESS ) than any single resistor( any single brake switch). That's right, using two switches at the same time makes a better connection-crazy ideas.
So now instead of burning out your stop lamp switch in a hurry, you can wear two of them out at a much much slower rate.
When using two corroded(or un-corroded) brake lamp switches together they will make a better connection than a single Brake lamp switch.

From the look of it I never said I "don't know anything about electrical."
I did say something to the effect of "I don't know the testing specifications of this part" and went on to make an educated guess that was fairly correct. scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=discussion&thread=52457&post=509250

[EPAhater]

Back on subject brake switches go bad , corrosion is one thing you mentioned as a failure type and since people wash their bikes or ride in the rain or they get rained on the brake switch may corrode- as you said. Corrosion if you are an electron in a scooter wire means resistance, resistance at a component, like a brake lamp switch, means you go from being a conductor to being a resistor. Resistors when you apply electrical magic stuff to them tend to heat up. Your corroded scooter brake lamp switch just became a heater, now every time you use it it will heat up, eventually it will fail. ( remember I made a crazy claim that you can make them last longer even if they are failing and you have no clue they are)
You've just set up a series of events that you said yourself is common. Heck I saw a guy post the other day that he's replaced 3 rear brake switches and two front ones. Must be a common thing.


Very common for them to go out, they are cheap and poorly built and even if you replace them with the expensive exact ones from Honda they do no better.

Again not enough load to amount to squat and your theory while to some would make sense if some of the events of corrosion is there isn't a issue.

Both brake light bulbs on this scooter add up to 20W = 1.67 amps and the starter relay adds another 0.25 amps.

Now replace the two brake/tail light bulbs with LED's and the total amp load is less than 0.50 amps. So lets add some corrosion factor and just for kicks say it's 1 amp.

The switches are rated at 5 amp. Now the reason I KNOW all of this is because I own 1 of the scooters this poster has mentioned and 2 of the 250B's with the same switches. Don't leave them in the rain, all have LED replacements and ALL of the wiring has been properly went through and fixed for maximum effiency.

Yet I have replaced every single switch on all 3 scooters except the left side on one of them. Now you can also use your theory and just rotate the brakes as in use the left one one time the right the other which in theory makes the wear the same, which I have also done and I keep a spare switch for each brake in stock.

So you see I'm not guessing on any of this, not putting a theory to it like you, I own the scooters!

I also own a 50 and 150cc scooter and have spare switches for them too.

People when they are getting ready to get on their scooter and ride aren't thinking (except maybe you) I better press both brake handles to equally distribute the load! Get real it's a Chinese scooter, stuff breaks.

Now it seems by your introduction you think you have all this "what I know and I'm here to help you" BS and list all these credentials and want to come on these threads and post all this you've learned at some trade school and it's supposed to be the gospel so I'll fill you in on something.

I'm among a lot of things am a certified electrician and have been for over 35 years which is longer than you've been alive. You've worked on stuff for 15 years you say and are 30 so that means you're putting all this vast years of experience dating back to when you was a 15 year old kid. I was working on this stuff before you were born. To me you are still a kid.

Your theories while on paper work are not what people want for advice and they get tired of people like youreslf coming in with 2 pages of this is how it all works BS from you. Heck I have a multimeter that's older than you! Your arrogant introduction of I'm here to teach only makes you look foolish and like a smarta$$.

You want start some theroy debate and oh look what I know crap on every single thread you speak on, never just come in and say something simple like "check the brake switches and if you have a meter see if they are getting and passing voltage".

Here is an example of you running your mouth about a problem when you didn't even pay attention to what scooter the poster had;

scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=200cc&action=display&thread=52566

A fan on a VOG, yep it has a fan a RADIATOR FAN!

This says it all about you;

NC guy- can do anything.

Howdy forum I'll leave my introduction here.
I'm from, and living, in Rockingham, NC and I've got myself a 49cc Honda Ruckus.
I built engines for two years as a part time after school job then went on to a Trade school where I learned the ins and outs of every part of a car.
I'm certified in HVAC, hydraulics, diesel repair, heavy trucks, transmission repair, factory trained by Mercedes Benz to work on their vehicles bumper to bumper for a range of models spanning 30 years, I've worked on cars for 5 years and know them pretty damn well, I can do wood work, plumbing, painting, roofing, concrete, a little welding and torching, excavating and yard work, trouble shoot machinery I've never seen before in my life and operate all forms of equipment. I can probably do more but I can't remember what it is!
If there is an opportunity to do something new I'm all for doing it.

I came to the forum to get an answer to a question I had about my brothers scooter and after browsing the questions on the forum I feel the knowledge I've collected in the past 15 years will benefit anyone with the patience to answer a few questions I may have and the ability to perform a few simple tasks.

I'll try and hang around regularly in-case I can learn a few things or even do some teaching.


So take some good advice when it comes to trying to help anyone, keep it simple, make a suggestion and if you've never had, been on, or even seen the scooter the person is talking about then instead fo starting the this is what's wrong crap ask someone about their scooter and find out all you can and then say "hey this is what might be wrong" check this.

I can testify to the things the fellow mentioned on this scooter simply becasue I own one.

I can probably do more but I can't remember what it is!


One thing you can't do is listen!

[medman1952]

No need to jump on people get over the ego and cool it guys.

[OverReved]

Probably just a misunderstanding of ohms law? I'm glad to discuss any confusing issues but It does seem to get out of hand. I'll try some "replace part X" posts without explaining why the part needs replacing!

[EPAhater]

Jul 29, 2012 2:27:54 GMT -5 OverReved said:

Probably just a misunderstanding of ohms law? I'm glad to discuss any confusing issues but It does seem to get out of hand. I'll try some "replace part X" posts without explaining why the part needs replacing!

Guessing again huh?

Ego =

NC guy- can do anything.

Howdy forum I'll leave my introduction here.
I'm from, and living, in Rockingham, NC and I've got myself a 49cc Honda Ruckus.
I built engines for two years as a part time after school job then went on to a Trade school where I learned the ins and outs of every part of a car.
I'm certified in HVAC, hydraulics, diesel repair, heavy trucks, transmission repair, factory trained by Mercedes Benz to work on their vehicles bumper to bumper for a range of models spanning 30 years, I've worked on cars for 5 years and know them pretty damn well, I can do wood work, plumbing, painting, roofing, concrete, a little welding and torching, excavating and yard work, trouble shoot machinery I've never seen before in my life and operate all forms of equipment. I can probably do more but I can't remember what it is!
If there is an opportunity to do something new I'm all for doing it.

I came to the forum to get an answer to a question I had about my brothers scooter and after browsing the questions on the forum I feel the knowledge I've collected in the past 15 years will benefit anyone with the patience to answer a few questions I may have and the ability to perform a few simple tasks.

I'll try and hang around regularly in-case I can learn a few things or even do some teaching.


Read more: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=200cc&action=display&thread=52126&page=2#ixzz220T7CVLv

I was practicing and understanding ohms law before you were born.

I'm also not guessing on this scooter.

I'll try some "replace part X" posts without explaining why the part needs replacing!

I'll try and hang around regularly in-case I can learn a few things

You've got a long ways to go.

[haywire17]

starter solenoid is problem my vog did same thing caught it in the act then just tap solenoid started fine,replaced solenoid problem solved