IceBear PST250-1 Road Warrior Questions

[sailormonkey333]

Hello, I'm sure this is partially revisiting one or several old topics but I can't seem to find the info I'm looking for on here and am hoping someone can help me out. I should have my wires new RW delivered this week and it is going up on the lift and getting torn down to the frame and re-built this weekend before she gets to ride it. However, I can't find schematics, Torque specs, valve clearance, bolt pattern for rear wheels, if the front tire is tubed or tubeless, etc... I was pretty much going to rely on the standards I grew up with (10w40, 80/90, high speed lithium marine grade wheel grease, "grunt" torque, and blue loctite) if I couldn't get any model specific info but anyone who has hands on experience with these I'd love to hear any/all advice. Thanks!

[rapidjim]

Standard torque specs for chinese bolts (thread diameter) are as follows:

M5 5 Nm
M6 10 Nm
M8 21.5 Nm
M10 35 Nm
M12 55Nm

M6 bolt with flanged head 12 Nm
M8 bolt with flanged head 27 Nm
M10 bolt with flanged head 40 Nm

Valve Clearances Intake : 0.08mm - 0.12mm 0.003149 inch to 0.004724 inch
Exhaust : 0.10mm - 0.14mn 0.003937 inch to 0.005511 inch

Use 10w40 conventional oil in the crank case.

Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair

[sailormonkey333]

Outstanding, thanks a lot Jim! I wish you were closer to me, I'd be happy to pay you to take care of it Also, is there a kit to increase displacement, I'm going to upgrade to a unifilter and open up the exhaust baffles when I re-jet the carb and if theres a "drop-in" way to increase the cc's I might as well do it while I'm tearing it down.

[rapidjim]

I am not aware of a big bore kit for these. I know there was a guy working on one but I haven't heard anymore from him.

As far as exhaust goes. I have a customer who put a pair of slip on Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle Mufflers on his he didn't rejet. He sent me this video.



Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair

[ve14326]

That sounded really nice...I liked it...just wish there was a way it went faster than 55mph as a 250...that seems slow...

[rapidjim]

May 18, 2012 12:27:33 GMT -5 ve14326 said:

That sounded really nice...I liked it...just wish there was a way it went faster than 55mph as a 250...that seems slow...

Might try upjetting. I know they are set a little lean.


Jim

[sailormonkey333]

LOL that's cool but I don't think I'll spend the money on new SE slip-ons....I am going to re-jet and open up the existing pipes. As I work on it, I'll post pics. BTW, I've read that the tires aren't road legal, would you advise changing to 255/50--12 or just try to find bigger rims?

[rapidjim]

The tire should be DOT approved. What is your source for saying they are not?

Jim

[sailormonkey333]

Thanks guys, I figured it's was an older complaint...actually found it on this site... and I know it'll be on the sidewall when I get the bike but I'd rather know now so I can have new tires on hand if I need them ... but I do want to upgrade rear tire diameter to increase my top end a bit, I know 255/50-12 will fit on the current rims but does anyone know of a lighter weight and slightly larger rim that's available in the bolt pattern of the road warrior?

[sailormonkey333]

Very true Wile but from the pictures everything looks simply mounted so making new attachment brackets to move the fenders should be easy or I may get lucky and just tighten up the shocks a little to limit travel. I'll let you know how it works out, if it's as easy as making brackets I'll post pics/dimensions/materials to take the guess work out of it for anyone that may want to do the same mod to their road warrior....Though talking to the wife, she just wants me to make sure it's safe and reliable before I go tinkering so I may have to wait until she breaks it before I get to add tires, jet the carb, and get it breathing better LOL

[rapidjim]

I have a customer that went to bigger wheels and tires. I will email him and get the specifics.

Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair

[sailormonkey333]

Thanks Jim!

[rapidjim]

He sent me pictures and links but not sizes I will post it all when I get it. He did use adapters/spacers but did not have to alter the fender assm.

Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair

[sailormonkey333]

Outstanding, thanks again...that will be a huge help! I just went and picked up 80/90, blue loctite, and 10w-40 and dusted off my lift and torque wrenches so I can give it a good PDI as well as rejet the carb to 130 main jets, upgrade to a unifilter, and I have some emgo downslash universal slip-ons coming LOL I can't wait to get my hands on this thing and see what it can really do.... one question though, do these chinese engines need to be hot cycled first?

[rapidjim]

Not sure of what you mean by hot cycled.

The spacers he used were 2 inch from www.motorcitybolton.com/wheel-adapters-wheel-spacers/4-lug-wheel-adapters-wheel-spacers/4x114-3-wheel-adapters-wheel-spacers/4x114-3-wheel-spacers.html


He used 165 65 13 tires mounted on these rims store.sacramentocustomwheels.com/product/Primax-333-Machine/Default.aspx?gfid=p1872-w28675




Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair

[sailormonkey333]

Hot cycled or brought up to temp and kept to "cure" virgin gaskets before placing any load on them....about 20min of idle usually does it on other small engines I've worked on. And thanks for the links, hopefully I'll have my trike on wednesday and after a good PDI, I'll get some raw "before" data on it and when I do the 100 mile service I'll start messing with the motor and wheels and can post up what I did, how well it works, what parts, etc... and again, Jim, you really are a huge help and it's most appreciated!

[rapidjim]

You are very welcome

Jim

[sailormonkey333]

I got the trike about 2pm today and despite the lack of instructions I got it together, PDI done, and got it road worthy! It's weird riding a trike and it has the turning radius of a 747 but it's a decent little bike. I'm 295lbs and 6'4" tall and it would go 50+ with my butt in the saddle with no problems. So far the only thing I noticed is the tires aren't rated properly and are marked NHS so I will need to swap them out BUT to my suprise they had balancing weights on them and didn't wobble hardly at all even at speed so I my just upgrade to new tires and keep these wheels (at least for now). Most importantly my wife, who due to a hip injury hasn't ridden her own bike in 4 years, loves it! I am not too familiar with the tav reared so I do need some pointers with that.....there is a zerke fitting on the differential and it has sealed boot CV joints but what grease, how much and should I hand pack the CV joints before I put more miles on the trike? Also, any other pointers would be awesome if I've forgotten anything....I checked every weld, bolt torque, chain tension, cable linkage, carb adjustments, locktited all bolts, sealed electrical connections, zip tied up loose wires, tire psi, adjusted head light, flushed fuel and oil, and just cracked a beer LOL So far my only regret is I didn't know enough to buy from Jim!

[rapidjim]

You use standard grease in these rear ends a couple pumps from a grease gun will do you just fine. No need to open and repack the cv joints as long as you do not rip a boot you should be fine.

The only thing you didn't mention was the shifter linkage. Make sure that you check the adjustment and locktite.

Remember that riding a trike is very different from riding a 2 wheeler. You do not lean into a curve. Actually you "drive" a trike.

The most important thing is that your wife loves it! When the wife is happy, we are happy, when the wife is miserable . . . . . . . . . ., LOL.

Good luck to you.

Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair

[sailormonkey333]

Thanks Jim! I took some good old high temp/high psi grease and squirted some in the rear, shifter linkage was already done (just forgot to mention that) and re checked torque on all major parts today after 20 min of mild off-roading....all was good to go! All in all this thing is cool but I did notice that the exhaust is welded on so now it'll be a real PITA to modify it to take slip ons.

[sailormonkey333]

Ok, top speed is 55mph in 5th gear going flat to downhill and the engine has enough hours on it to be broken in (Wife spends an hour or two a night practicing at the local school parking lot) so it's going on the lift for full service, re-torque, air filter with velocity stack, main jet upgraded to a 130, and the exhaust cut off to allow a pipe extension to be mig welded on so I can mount the emgo turn-out slip-ons, and kuryakyn ISO grips...I also have 255/50-12 rear tires on the way and a new 3.00-18 MT66 front tire to spoon on (now it'll be fun finding someone to balance them for me). I'm homing to be able to get a little more midrange oomph and a 5-10mph increase in top speed once she is tuned up.....any other suggestions to increase performance?

[rapidjim]

Sounds like you have it all in hand.

Good that the wife is practicing in a lot before she hits the open road.

Post lots of pictures and keep us informed please

Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair

[sailormonkey333]

Update: I put in the 130 main jet, removed the fake air filter housings, modified the flex hose to the air filter to accept the unifilter and mounted it in the center of the frame, rerouted some wires and cables after removing the brackets from the frame that held the fake air filter housings on. I dropped the exhaust and cut off the rear baffle and punched 2 additional 1/2" holes in the forward baffle of each pipe. I fired it up, tuned the carb and readjusted all the linkages/cables I had disturbed and she sounds better, has noticeable increase in acceleration and can now maintain 50-55 up some mild inclines without having to downshift. Now I have to get new weather stripping for the trunk to stop it from rattling as well as some fiberglass (to reinforce the trunk) and rubber matting/industrial carpeting to finish the interior of the trunk. I also have some kuryakyn ISO grips on the way as well as the real slip-on exhaust but I might just save the exhaust for a later date project and make entirely new pipes for them to mount to. Once the tires get here and I get it all finished I will figure out how to post some pics for ya'll All said and done I'll have a little under 5,500$ invested after upgrades, taxes, title, and tags for what now seems to be a fairly reliable 55mph cruiser that makes the wife very happy and keeps me busy!

[falconbrother]

I have ordered a road warrior for my wife. I was told by a dealer of these things that it would do 70mph? I gather that's not true? Please let me know. Maybe I can cancel this order and get something a little more road worthy.

[sailormonkey333]

Yeah, this isn't getting anywhere close to 70mph, my wife is over 100lbs lighter than I am and it still doesn't go much faster on the top end than 55 but I also haven't gotten larger rear tires and the engine is barely broken in so the top speed will improve slightly after that but I wouldn't expect to see more than 60mph cruising speed without a new front sprocket, re-gearing the rear end, going to a lager carb, possibly turbo charging it LOL Seriously though, I and my wife couldn't be happier with it, it's a fun project for me in the garage and it is great for her to run around town, back roads, and you don't want to go faster than 50-55 on it anyway because it has a raked out front end without a steering dampener and any faster you would be fighting to keep the wheel straight. My goal for messing with the exhaust, intake, carb, and tires is all geared at increasing midrange, ride quality, and exhaust sound so my wife can enjoy the ride even more but this is a 250cc scooter with a small ATV rear end and a springer front end, it's totally not designed for high speed. Also, the rear wheel fenders are a solid piece which go all 42" across the wheel base and I don't know this for sure but I suspect (based on same top speed between the wife and I with the very large weight difference) that the rear fender assembly acts as a drag parachute and the bike reaches almost a terminal velocity of sorts due to lack of engine power vs air drag. Ultimately it is what is advertised, a small displacement city runner with back road/low traffic capabilities and if you are mechanically inclined, a fun project.....if you are not mechanically inclined and don't live close to a darn good mechanic than your up the creek

[falconbrother]

Well, I appreciate all your comments. I truly do. I slept on it last night and I think I'll just let it come on and see how she likes it. Our original agreement was that for local (non-interstate stuff) she would ride the trike but, on PGR trips that reguire interstate she'll ride with me on the Harley Heritage.

I'm a pretty good mechanic. I can do all my own cutting of the exhaust and mig welding. I own a mig welder and will cut that exhaust right in front of the mufflers and weld on some Cobra slash cuts I already have. Then re-jet that carb. The 130 main seems to be working for you so, I'll go get one of those.

Did you adjust the needle setting? I would think it might need to be lowered a notch?

How about the idle jet?

I wonder if there is a more aggressive ignition for the Lifan/Yamaha 250 engines? I know on Harleys you can do all the upgrades you want but, without an ignition upgrade you'll never get to enjoy the full benefits.

Where did you get the new air filter. I'm a little shy about some filters because they suck in water when riding in a hard rain. I have a buddy that has a Road Star 1700 that will shut off on the interstate in a hard rain. He has a big free flowing filter that doesn't do much to keep the rain out.

[sailormonkey333]

Another update LOL: I removed the 130 jet because even with the airscrew all the way out I was running rich and bogging down so....in goes the 125 jet and I could get to 45 in 3rd and 55 in 4th but I'd actually lose speed in 5th. So, I pulled everything apart again, went back to stock configuration except the 125 jet and the unifilter intake...... before I ran out of road in 4th, I shifted to 5th and ....well, nothing magical but I did maintain power and slowly started inching up in speed once I was a little over 50mph but I ran out of road before I could see it's top end. Now, I'm leaving it alone for now because tomorrow I'm welding on the EMGO down slash slip ons I got in the mail today which should help even out my power band and as rich as I was running I'm going to change the oil again because it's likely detergent by now and I'm going to readjust the valves (while I'm at it LOL).

I think that after the oil change, valve adjustment, exhaust, and larger rear tires I should see a solid 55-60mph cruise ability providing the increase in rear tire diameter allows me to get higher into the top end of 4th gear before I shift to 5th as 5th still seems to act more like an over drive and tanks my rpms.

Falcon- I don't believe the uni-filter (buggypartsNW.com) is going to allow too much water in but I haven't tested it, it is a little sheltered by the frames down tube and is well built, with spring core and double layer foam. I haven't checked into upgrading the ignition system yet so if you find anything let me know! I am entertaining the idea of just getting a larger carb and seeing what that does ....guess thats the best part about a bike like this, keep trying things until it's perfect or blows up LOL

[falconbrother]

I have noticed that on many of the choppers that use the Lifan engine they use a side intake non-CV carb. I have sent out a few emails looking for the side intake slide type carbs. Right now I think they are using off road type carbs and custom made intakes and straight out drag pipes. Not sure if there are any ignition system modifications. It is my novice opinion that the Lifan V-twin has a lot more power potential than it's actually making. It just seems to me like 80mph ought to be possible with bolt on mods. 80mph ain't that much to ask. Heck, I was at the local coliseum once when the go-cart races were there. They were running 80mph on single cylinder, small displacement, lawnmower engines.

I plan to run 10-W30 oil. They say these little engines like the thinner oils as opposed to 20-W50. That should also help them spin up a shade faster. I know that I run 10-W30 in my wife's generator on her grooming van and that things been working year round for three years. The book said 10-W30 so that's what I run even when it's 110 degrees outside.

Getting the main jet right is one thing but, have you messed with the mixtures? They can be difficult to get perfect. I traded in my VS1400 Suzuki that I had modified for my Harley. It probably took me a month to get the mixtures right on both carbs. I just carried a little screw driver and when something didn't feel right I would pull over and adjust. I got enough horse power from that bike that I had to get racing clutch springs because the clutch was slipping in higher gears.

I have read that the Lifan V-2 is jetted real lean. It might be possible to get a little extra by enriching the mixture and leaving the jets alone. What do you think? What I have done on bikes in the past was to drill and pull the mixture screw plugs and then gently screw the screw all the way in till stop and counting the turns exactly. Then backing it back out to the original setting plus 1/4 turn till I get what I need in terms of proper idle, lack of back fire, no flat spots, etc.. I would let the bike completely warm up then adjust for proper idle without stumble at idle. I do it by feel and by riding the bike. If I feel like things are way off I'll run it hard and hit the kill switch and pull the plugs to look at them. If I had to choose I would rather be just a hair rich than too lean. Lean equals high exhaust gas temps and it's not good.

I'm really surprised that I haven't found much on the internet about customizing these engines. I did read that the Lifan motorcycle has like a 95 jet. I read where a guy got better performance from a 112.5 main jet. I know that if you go real big on a jet you have to adjust the needle setting. It could mean pulling the carb a few times which is a royal pain and asking for intake leak issues, which suck.

[falconbrother]

One thing I have found, kinda expensive but, sounds worth it. It's a 6 sigma jet kit for the Lifan/Virago 250. It's 39 bucks but, comes with everything for a total recalibration of the carb. I have done these on Harley carbs and it's easy. It does require drilling the slide but the kits usually come with the exact drill bit that you need. Not drilling the slide is an option. It just slows down the throttle response a tad. With free flowing exhaust it's nice to have a fast throttle response and seems to make bikes come off the line faster.

[sailormonkey333]

This came with a 110 jet and I jumped straight into rejecting so I'm sure some increase in power could've been gained by simply making it a bit richer...I'm going to keep playing around with some configurations and if I get anything that works great I'll et you know. If you can milk some more power out of yours let me know as I am basically hitting a wall in 5th gear and if I had any pull in 5th I could see cruising at 65+