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Post by jcamaro on Apr 4, 2012 21:51:06 GMT -5
I am new to all this scooter buying stuff so you can imagine what I have been though, and you guys warned me!!
EXTREME-SCOOTERS is where I will start and Dave the OWNER.
I was interested in TWO Icebear Cyclone's so I made a lot of calls and compared the difference between the dealers, like what they gave along with the bike. The number one thing they all say is, we give you this and this and they don't do this. I tell them thats the same thing they told me about you!! So Extreme gives me a price of $2350 with shipping, Holy Smokes I'll take two!!! I told him I want 2012's not 2011's and he say's that the 2011's are the Year of Manufacture and Invoiced in 2012 as a PST150C Cyclone for $2350 Includes Shipping Each. I said no deal I want year of Manufacture of 2012, I tell him if he takes off alittle more off the 2011 that I will Take the 2011 if not give me the 2012's. He tells me he has to check with Wendy at Icebear in CA. He calls back and tells me the 2011 are sold but he can get me the 2012 for $2400, ok order them!!
Well we don't take charge cards and this is my fault for not looking but I ASSUMED that everyone takes a charge card on something like this and it did not say it on his web site so here I am wrong. I have a good deal with the credit card company on fee's and interest for one year why lose the interest and pay cash? He tells me he's not equiped to take charge cards. I tell him how many people out there can pay in full for a Big Boy Toy like this. He tells me well if I should not like it or have a problem I could stop the card payment. I mean are these machines that BAD that the dealer is already talking about problems? But then on the other hand he says let me check with Wendy agan. Calls back and tells me if I want to use the credit card I will have to pay Retail Price of $2599 shipped. Whoa alittle while ago you told me you where not equiped to take credit cards but if I buy it now it's Retail!! Forget this rip off guy stay away from him. I asked him to have Faith in me like he wants me to have Faith in him. Ship the bike I will have a shop put it together and set it up. In the mean time hold the title when it's done I'll pay him in cash or whatever he wants. Upon getting the payment send me the title. I think thats fair, you can guess his answer, NO WAY!! I even told him give me a deal like the credit card company with no interest or fee's for a year, same answer!!
Where is his FAITH like he wants me to have FAITH though, STAY AWAY FROM HIM.
Now for Killer Motor Sports they said they will beat any price. They tell me the best is $2699 I told them that POWER SPORT FINANCING has it for $2599 with everything they are giving with there deal. Well Killer and Power Sport are the same people with different names and they can't even match their OWN prices!!!
I found this with other web site dealers different names and prices just so you think your getting a better deal but you really are not. This is one of IceBears problems beside their workmanship there DEALERS are out to RIP us the customer off!!
I am going to post this on Icebears site just to see what they have to say about it. I think Ice Bear should have ALL Dealers have a location where the customer can go and see someone.You guys warned me about dealers but I had no idea that it was like this. I mean I want to buy to bikes at a good price and not get raped Who can I trust and beable to use a credit card? Don't tell me Rapid nothing bad to say other then his prices. Anybody else?
For all you first time buyers PM me maybe we can help each other.
Ice Bear needs to get someone who will keep these dealers in line. I was even told that being that they are not making money on their LOW price don't expect a warranty just the factory one and I will have to handle it myself. All I am getting is a
Bike In a BOX. BUYER BEWARE!!!
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Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 4, 2012 22:31:08 GMT -5
no one is trying to rip you off. you can order from whoever you want. and why do you want TWO if uncertain? these are not rare. order one and see how it goes. if you like it, order another
also unless a new feature has been added or upgrades a 2012 is no different then 2011. i certainly wouldn't pay more for a 2012. even Vespa has leftoever 2009's languishing about. people buy them at a slight discount and don't complain
these trikes hold no resale value, really. so meh
at least rapidjim will answer your calls after purchase and be attentive to you needs. you want cheaper? buy from a big drop shipper as you were and get what you paid for
oh, and IB is just a distributor. if anything its the DEALERS which keep them in line
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Post by jcamaro on Apr 5, 2012 0:13:28 GMT -5
I know its the dealers I have been to a Brick and Block dealer by me. They told me don't expect any warranty after I pick it up even after they are doing the PDI!! I mean what kind of answer is that? And yes they are out to rip us off same dealer sold my friend the same model he want paid $3000 out the door with credit card and he is happy. He told me about them I go down there and they want $3500 with credit card and same model. Thats not a rip off, would you pay the difference in 2 week span, I don't think you would. And yes jim will answer the phone and is a good guy but he is also $450 more. Also the other bike is for my friend.
Do you know anyone in Florida thats a dealer?
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Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 5, 2012 0:23:58 GMT -5
so you understand the market. thats good. its from china, lots of fingers in the pie. manufacturer, shipper, distributor, governments, you. costs rise and fall
this is a risky purchase. i understand you want the best experience and price possible. thats reasonable. so just find a seller with the right price and a sense of trust and take the plunge imo. you can order ONE and then another if satisfied
i just want to see you make a good decision based on what you want. not the whole "what year is it and why is it $300 more now?" thing
seems you understand once delivered you are mostly on your own except for the dealer sending out warrantied parts. have you seen the warranties on the trikes? meh
so take the plunge, clear eyed and realistic. after all once it shows up will it matter who you bought from unless rapidjim or another more attentive dealer? nah, it won't. it will be your trike and your joy or problem. or a little of both
hope you find what you are looking for. and good luck!
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Post by wile on Apr 5, 2012 0:47:39 GMT -5
Just a warning DO NOT PAY IN CASH or WIRE TRANSFER Always use a Crediti Card. If they do not take a credit card purchase RUN.
The usual way they work is you pay the dealer the dealer pays the Distributor for the scoot you ordered and the distributor drop ships the scoot. The distributor will not send out a scoot without getting paid from the dealer. Now another problem the dealers may pull is the COLOR you ordered, on their site they will ask for a color and second choice or you may call and ask if they have the color you want and they will lie and tell you yes we have one stock. So after you give them the credit card they will call or just email the distributor telling them I need a red whatever and the distributor may say we only have them in black and that is what you will get(HAHA).
The dealers are not about to loose the sale after they have your money they figure once you get the black one you will complain and bitch but you will keep it. And that is what they bank on because to send it back it will cost you and you will actually be out more money to ship it back on your dime. Then you will have a lot of fun getting your full refund back.
You see the distributor has the dealers money and he is not about to refund what you paid because he also has to get what he paid to the distributor. All this between them takes a lot of time and you meanwhile may not have more money to go buy from someone else. So here you are now trying to get your credit card company to credit your account and let them try and get the money from the dealer. Its a crazy world out there so be smart and check out everything also I would check with your credit card company before you charge it. Ask if there is a problem with the purchase will they credit your account and they deal with the seller to get the money back.
Wile
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Post by dudley on Apr 5, 2012 5:27:29 GMT -5
The extra 450 to rapid repair will be well worth it.
At least you will get constant technical help and honesty.
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Post by Cookees on Apr 5, 2012 13:05:17 GMT -5
The extra 450 to rapid repair will be well worth it. At least you will get constant technical help and honesty. AMEN |
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Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 5, 2012 15:28:29 GMT -5
what do you guys think of the "PDI" offered by Ice Bear? does IB ever really SEE the trikes at a facility, or do they simply trust the dropshipper to get it done? such as "we have an order for a trike with a pdi" and ship it out?
i find it hard to believe they would ship from china pdi'd? or that IB would have it go to a separate US facility, pdi it, and send it out for $100 extra?
but then again....what do i know! i just know IB says THEY offer a pdi service for $100
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Post by wile on Apr 5, 2012 17:27:19 GMT -5
IB Trikes are shipped from CA. IB has their warehouse there that is their Distribution place. The are the ones that ship it out from their warehouse, if going to a different state they get shipped by RAIL to your city then the Drop Shipper closest to you that ALREADY has been arranged picks it up from the Railroad and delivers it to you.
Wile
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Post by timber on Apr 5, 2012 20:09:22 GMT -5
Actually, if you pay by credit card and they told you yes they have red you wanted, and they ship black to you, you REFUSE the delivery, send it back, and tell them to send the red as you ORDERED, and if it's out of stock then you give them a reasonable time to GET it. Otherwise you can file a dispute with visa for item not rec'd as ORDERED.
When they have to pay a charge-back fee and lose the sale, plus pay for re-delivery or return, they'll change that tune real fast!
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Post by alexl on Apr 5, 2012 21:35:50 GMT -5
I tell him how many people out there can pay in full for a Big Boy Toy like this. Don't take me wrong, i like a new toy just like anyone else in the world... and i'm no financial advisor.. but i feel that this mentality is what has gotten the U.S. into the situation it is in. IMHO, if something is a TOY, then it should not be purchased unless the purchaser has the funds to pay for it at the time of purchase. I know credit card transactions can be safer, but i feel for a toy, if a purchaser uses a credit card, they should have the means to pay the bill in full at the end of the payment period. |
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Post by mainepeace on Apr 5, 2012 23:55:16 GMT -5
I think the issue is "buyer protection" rather than "ability to pay".
Ice Bear is a reputable company.
Online dealers may or may not be reputable. The ones who advertise here are. Some others... well... we've heard the stories.
Greg
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Post by Carolina Fun Machines on Apr 6, 2012 5:35:19 GMT -5
When ordering from a website drop shipper read the terms and conditions. Many state they can ship you whatever they want and you have to take it. TAKE the time to read the T&C that you agree to when you order from them or you will be out of luck.
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Post by rapidjim on Apr 7, 2012 16:43:04 GMT -5
I guess I will chime in here.
Hmm where to start.
I guess the place to start is my personal opinion of Pacific Rim Int'l in California, the sole distributor for Ice Bear. First off, I have not ever had a problem with them to date. Every warranty claim that I have submitted has been honored and even had a few items warrantied that were expressly not covered. So whoever the Dealer was that said not to expect a warranty from Ice Bear is either not being truthful or is to lazy to do the work required. The selling dealer is responsible for working with Ice Bear on any consumer issue. I do disagree with the customer paying shipping on a warranty part but, that is how a lot of Chinese Distributors do business. Not much that can be done about it, at least they are up front about it.
Pricing varies from Dealer to Dealer. I will be the first to say that my prices are higher than some strictly on line dealers, but, I am not the most expensive out there either. IB does set a minimum price for their products and there are some that do not hold to that agreement. Some of the reasons for my pricing is overhead and what you get for your extra dollars.
First off, I do not have a shopping cart for several reasons, one being I like to talk to my prospective customer to let them know what they are to expect. I then find out what model, year and color they want. After a tentative deal is set, I then call IB to check on the machine they want. If it is in stock, then I call the customer an finalize the deal. If not, I inform the customer the color they want is not in stock or maybe it is last years model and give them options.
Next, and most important, is after the sale support. To many on line dealers forget about you after the sale. They don't answer your calls or emails, take a week or more to get get your MCO to you, some even require you to request an MCO. the list goes on. We do not do that! Whatever the reason for your call you will talk to me and I will help you even if it is years later. If I happen to be tyed up and you get the answering machine you WILL get a return call! Speaking of the MCO, the MCO is sent to me automatically from IB for signature and right back in the mail the same day. In most cases I have the MCO before the machine even delivered.
We are not strictly a drop shipper. We are a brick and motor dealership that actually works on them besides selling them.
jcamaro, I do remember spending quite a bit of time talking to you on the phone and you wanted me to match the lowest price out there, give you the free helmets and gloves, which we do not do. At the time that we talked, there were not any Cyclones in stock in CA but, due in soon. You complained to me about a couple others not even returning your phone calls. Of course you were disappointed that I would not match the prices you were allegedly getting. I see from your post that the prices kept changing.
As far as IB doing a PDI. Yes it is offered and yes they have a full time mechanic in CA that does the PDI and Assembling. The machine is then repacked and shipped. They just started offering this to their customers when they changed their warranty on drop shippers. One question they are not sure of is what will happen in transit. This is all new to them and we will see how it works as time goes on. I do have a post on this in the trike section.
Finally, a thank you to those that commented on this thread in my behalf.
Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair
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Post by belen1705 on Apr 11, 2012 21:12:40 GMT -5
I purchased my trike from Rapid Repair and so far it has been the perfect transaction. Because, 1: Chinese scooters are not up to snuff on quality in many ways. 2: You will need help even if you are an experienced scoot owner. 3: When you are purchasing an item that is going to cost you 2K, isn't it worth 10% to make sure you are getting what you are paying for. l cannot aford to throw away a couple thousand so I take the sure bet.
Besides I have spent another 600 on accessories and extras because everything went smoothly with my trike. This is what I call a bargain when all goes as planned and you have the confidence to accessorize it knowing that it will be a lasting purchase not something that you will learn to hate.
All good fortune in your pursuit of a Chinese scooter, you will need it if you shop the sheister dealers.
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Post by Parker2100 on Jun 29, 2012 21:23:01 GMT -5
Just ordered a 150cc Type 8 Trike. Should arrive early next week (it is already in my state)
I agonized about it for a couple weeks and decided to take a risk. If I had a do-over, I would still do it but I would have chosen a different dealer. I know there are going to be issues but I can do most of my own mech work and I am willing to pay someone to do what I can't. Trick is going to find a local mech who will work on a GY6. Michigan is a BIG union state.
I bought a warranty but I probably won't use it.
I have to believe that 50% of the problems with these is people just not knowing how to maintain them. And my understanding is that Chinese scooters require more upkeep. That is fine. For example, I wonder how many new owners know that you must change the oil upon delivery then again 200 miles later, then every 600 miles for the life of the trike? I have seen A LOT of bad information online about maintaing Chinese scooters such as having to change the oil every 1000 miles. No! It's 1000 km! Which equals 600 miles.
Or that you MUST tighten all the bolts or things WILL come off? In fact, they probably will anyway. My eyes are wide open here.
My 12 year-old car just met its maker in Korean Car Heaven. So HEY it was either this or a cheap used car. You think that is a better bet?
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Post by wile on Jun 30, 2012 15:57:29 GMT -5
So your trike is the Viking Ruckus type, they are very easy to work on and especially the one you got it is wide open you can get at everything.
Enjoy and ride safe
Wile
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Post by Parker2100 on Jul 1, 2012 6:53:10 GMT -5
Thank you Wile,
Being able to get at stuff was a big reason I chose this model. Besides, it looks cool. Pretty much a frame with an engine and seat on it (and a couple other things).
Parker
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Post by justmopeds on Jul 3, 2012 21:14:51 GMT -5
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Post by kathineid on Jul 8, 2012 9:01:48 GMT -5
I have a customer who had an icebear drop shipped. It was PI'd also. I dont remember where he purchase it from. He had 2 problems with it. He called the dealer/distributor and the parts were shipped to me within a week. Fixed the trike and went on his way. He hasn't had a problem for the last 10 months of riding. Once the quirks are fixed (as in most scoots) most scooters are the enjoyment you expected.
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Post by jdikov on Jul 9, 2012 17:31:42 GMT -5
Lowest price if often not the best deal. We used import some lower priced scooters just to make our dealers happy. Well the manufacturer quality went down and then the dealers were unhappy. Now we only import the ZNEN scooters and they are happy again. Have to pay a little more for them but you know what you are getting and I am able to stock all the parts for them because ZNEN is well organized and has a good parts numbering/ordering system. This allows us to include the one year warranty for our scoots. We also do not charge to ship warranty parts, we pick up the tab. You can find lower prices but tr y and get the parts support.
Just got a call from a dealer who is looking for parts for the VIP scooters he sells. Seems like the importer is all out them. In fact I get a buch of calls every week from people looking for VIP parts (LOL)
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Post by Parker2100 on Jul 9, 2012 22:52:57 GMT -5
Whelp, my Trike came. Long story short, the battery cables were to short (as if setup for the other side) and a couple vac hose are not connected and just end. Thought they came loose but cannot find a connection they reach. Did the factory use a line that was to short then didn't want to take the time to correct it?
Although my dealer includes "free" PDI, clearly, it was not inspected before it was sent to me.
Parker
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Post by wile on Jul 9, 2012 23:23:28 GMT -5
Think about it, whoever you ordered it from may just be a suite taking orders. They never see even the crate it comes in. And even if they actually are a B&M dealer, not many will UNCRATE the scoot put it together and adjust and start it up then break it down again and crate it and then ship it to you. That takes hours and labor and they are not about to do that.
The PDI was done in china and good luck with that.
But anything your not clear about take pictures and we can tell you what or where they go.
Wile
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Post by Parker2100 on Jul 9, 2012 23:35:23 GMT -5
After a little research, what I thought was vac lines may be vent lines. However, there is no excuse for the short battery cables. That "should" be and easy fix if I can find the guage of my cables, anybody know? Its a 150cc IceBear Viking.
And, yes Wile, I had accounted for the possibility that my "free PDI" was just Smoke & Mirrors.
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Post by Parker2100 on Jul 10, 2012 19:53:07 GMT -5
Update:
Got my IceBear Trike runing and actually rode it around the parking lot. The Dealer didn't tell me I would have to install the front wheel so after my first ride, it was clear to me something was amiss. I didn't put on a spacer so the wheel was only held in alignment by the brake. (To be fare, this is why they all recommend that a Cert Mech do the assembly).
This thread is about poor Dealers and after my experiences, I must say that my Dealer was far from perfect. If I was a person of less mechanical & research ability then this would have been a NIGHTMARE instead of just the two days of labor and fustration that it was. Fortunatly, I planned for a bad Dealer experience as best I could.
But if you REALLY know what you are doing, most of these Dealers have some sort of value.
Parker
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