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Battery
Jul 13, 2006 16:33:41 GMT -5
Post by jose on Jul 13, 2006 16:33:41 GMT -5
What would happend if you did not charge the battery before riding the scooter. Step one: assembled the battery.. Step two: installed battery Step three: started scooter.. and off I go?
What would be the long effect to the battery? A? Would it still hold charge? B? Would it hold charge, but; at a lower level? C? Not do anything, being Chinese built, quality is currently questionable?
IF anyone has stepped on this trail, let me know outcome.. I have an idea, want to confirm before ending the troubleshooting process.
Jose'
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Battery
Jul 13, 2006 19:39:26 GMT -5
Post by scooterollie on Jul 13, 2006 19:39:26 GMT -5
jose; We used to refer to batteries that came with the acid separate as "Dry Charged". IIRC, the acid was added, battery installed and you went on your way. No pre-charge. I have bought a couple of auto batteries in the past that were "Dry Charged". I do believe that some shops would hook them up to a charger for a while just to be certain they were charged.
When I prepped my Roketa Bali 250, I added acid, waited a few minutes as instructed, installed the charger and set it to 2 amps. The charger sampled the battery level then cycled off. I disconnected the charger, waited several minutes and tried again with the same result. I then disconnected the charger and installed the battery. When it came time to start up the scoot, the battery turned over the starter motor strongly and w/o hesitation. That has been three weeks ago and the battery has never sounded as though it was low.
Short answer: No, I don't think there would be any problem. After firing up the scoot, the engine will charge the battery if necessary, and I don't see how the battery life would be shortened.
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Battery
Jul 13, 2006 21:46:55 GMT -5
Post by Jacine on Jul 13, 2006 21:46:55 GMT -5
It may depend on the quality of the battery. They say the battery is 75% charged at the time you add the acid. You are then expected to charge in until it reaches its full 100%. This apparently tells the battery how much to recharge itself. If the battery is big enough for the scooter, and only remembers to recharge itself to 75% you may never see any difference from the missing 25%. If its a chinese battery, and your climate is hot, the battery will go regardless.
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Battery
Jul 13, 2006 22:53:28 GMT -5
Post by scooterollie on Jul 13, 2006 22:53:28 GMT -5
jacine; You are correct in that we should not expect as much from the standard issue Chinese battery. To the best of my knowledge, lead-acid batteries do not develop a memory set and, if low, will charge to full capacity in the vehicle. The biggest problem with dry charge batteries is how long and under what conditions they have been stored. Temp. above 80F and high humidity will result in oxidation of the negative terminal. This will require a long charge to convert the oxidation on the negative electrode. Charge before installation is usually recommended for dry charged batteries because the age of the battery and conditions of storage are not always known. Generally, they can be stored up to five years under proper conditions, maybe even longer, but may require slow, extensive charging.
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Battery
Jul 14, 2006 23:02:08 GMT -5
Post by medman1952 on Jul 14, 2006 23:02:08 GMT -5
I agree with Scooterollie,
The older ni-cad/niklecadmium batteries were the ones that had charge memory problems. I've never heard of a lead acid battery having memory and not charging to its full potential when given a chance. I can see a problem if you never ran the scooter long enough to make up for the draw of the start up.
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Battery
Jul 14, 2006 23:21:49 GMT -5
Post by Jacine on Jul 14, 2006 23:21:49 GMT -5
Just got a new Yusa, that made me run through a whole set up procedure for the memory thing. The V* will not charge the battery under 3500 rpms.
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Battery
Jul 15, 2006 9:13:57 GMT -5
Post by woodlark on Jul 15, 2006 9:13:57 GMT -5
Jacine,
Is that new Yuasa one of the "gel" electrolyte ones? They are great batteries, but they require a higher charging voltage than the older style lead-acid batteries.
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Battery
Jul 15, 2006 10:43:38 GMT -5
Post by Jacine on Jul 15, 2006 10:43:38 GMT -5
I think it is in between, they have three styles it seems, lead, full gel, and something else. They're being used as replacements in the Yamahas, Hondas, Suzukis, and Kawasakis. So far its worth the price.
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Battery
Jul 15, 2006 13:11:18 GMT -5
Post by scooterollie on Jul 15, 2006 13:11:18 GMT -5
Perhaps it is an "AGM" - absorbed glass mat - battery. Below is info. I found last winter on a battery website when I was researching a new battery for my 150. I will purchase an AGM battery to replace the O.E.M. in my 250.
AGM Batteries?Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries (AGM Batteries) ?do not leak, freeze and do not require any maintenance.?An AGM Battery can be stored for a long period of time without charging. What is a AGM or Absorbed Glass Mat Battery??The newer type of sealed nonspillable maintenance free valve regulated battery uses "Absorbed Glass Mats", or AGM separators between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. These are also called "starved electrolyte.” Just like the Gel batteries, the AGM Battery will not leak acid if broken. What are the advantages of the AGM battery??The advantages of AGM batteries are no maintenance, sealed against fumes, hydrogen, leakage, or non-spilling even if they are broken, and can survive most freezes. AGM batteries are "recombinant" – which means the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine inside the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost. Charging voltages for most AGM batteries are the same as for a standard type battery so there is no need for special charging adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. Since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents. AGM batteries have a very low self-discharge rate (from 1% to 3% per month). So they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging. The plates in AGM's are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery.
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Battery
Jul 16, 2006 9:55:54 GMT -5
Post by ooopseyesharted on Jul 16, 2006 9:55:54 GMT -5
Wow, you guys are battery nerds!!! Just kidding....Lots of sweet info in here. I have an interstate battery in my daily scoot. How are they? It has a 1 year free replacement warranty too!!!!!!
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Battery
Jul 16, 2006 12:56:20 GMT -5
Post by Javarod on Jul 16, 2006 12:56:20 GMT -5
I believe Interstate is a good solid product, it is after all a name brand battery, and there's not too many of those. The interesting thing is that Interstate IIRC is reselling the Optima gel battery as the Orbital, which is a nice ifn expensive battery for your car or truck.
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Battery
Jul 16, 2006 17:19:26 GMT -5
Post by ooopseyesharted on Jul 16, 2006 17:19:26 GMT -5
I have an optima yellow top in my car. They are great batteries.
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Battery
Jul 17, 2006 15:33:44 GMT -5
Post by jose on Jul 17, 2006 15:33:44 GMT -5
Okay.. does it matter if the battery that came with the bike was a 12V/ 7AMp.. could I change it to a 12V/ 10AMp.. with no problems to the system regarding cranking.. Right now.. start occurs on the second or thrid attempt. I give it the button and with crank over, then wait for about 1/5 sec. then it with crank over via battery.. seems abit weak..?
Will it be okay to switch out to a 12V/10A?
Jose'
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Battery
Jul 17, 2006 16:44:02 GMT -5
Post by scooterollie on Jul 17, 2006 16:44:02 GMT -5
jose; ABSOLUTELY! In fact, it is recommended that when you replace the stock battery, go with one of more amp hours (AH) and a higher cold cranking amp (CCA) rating. The higher ratings will give more "oomph" at cranking, over a longer period of time. The only concern is if the battery will fit in the space provided. Check size very carefully as scooters often have a size-restricted battery box.
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Battery
Jul 17, 2006 16:44:46 GMT -5
Post by Fulltiltone on Jul 17, 2006 16:44:46 GMT -5
Not a problem, the 10A refers to the charge capacity. The only problem you may run into is if you were to go to a much higher amperage battery and then you may or may not be able to charge it fully. I have a 10A battery in my Tank Touring 180. I bumped up the cylinder size and the battery size to ensure it would have enough fire to start it.
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Battery
Jul 17, 2006 21:13:48 GMT -5
Post by Jacine on Jul 17, 2006 21:13:48 GMT -5
The problem is with the battery storage space. I tend to find the largest amp battery I can. The bikes turn over faster, stronger, and the battery seems to last longer, although it may be because its not a chinese battery.
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Battery
Jul 20, 2006 12:21:58 GMT -5
Post by mgreenfield on Jul 20, 2006 12:21:58 GMT -5
If your alternator is running OK, and you dont crank your starter long and often, you will put a full charge on anything you can stuff in the scoot. Only question is how big a physical size can you install?? My Roketa-150 came with a little 7AH battery. Maybe I can get a 10AH in the carrier. I'd put a 20AH in if it would fit.
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Battery
Jul 20, 2006 15:04:44 GMT -5
Post by scooterollie on Jul 20, 2006 15:04:44 GMT -5
mgreenfield; I replaced my original 7 AH battery in my 150 Phantom-clone with a 9 AH one. I don't have the exact battery number now as I sold the scoot and the paperwork went with it. I searched the battery suppliers and found one that was the same size but 2 more amp hours and double (from 90 to 180) the CCAs. It was also an AGM type battery, which is better (tougher, holds charge longer on standing) than the standard full liquid type. I noticed stronger cranking when starting and my other battery was new, not worn out.
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Battery
Jul 21, 2006 17:28:38 GMT -5
Post by jose on Jul 21, 2006 17:28:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the info.. When if this bat goes South.. Will look at paying for the Ten Amp, not the 7 and see if it comes in the same size..
Jose'
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