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Post by kenb6656 on Feb 3, 2010 21:44:16 GMT -5
I have been thinking. Recently when I attempted to put the ole ice bear into reverse, the cable snapped, at the handle and the trike has only 210 km. So I started thinking about the fix. I have been looking into the possibility of installing a linear actuator, or electric pull solenoid. Does anybody know the distance that the cable pulls the arm? I thought if I get a actuator that would screw into the bracket where the cable is, instead of the cable, cut the cable and attach it to the piston of the actuator and run a couple of wires and a switch. I need to know how far the cable needs to be pulled, as I have found some with 1", 1 1/2 " and 2" pull. Any thoughts or comments?
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Post by als01seville on Feb 4, 2010 0:19:21 GMT -5
Kenb6656, The Mechanism should only rotate about 1/4 inch to get it in REVERSE it is Spring loaded to go back into FORWARD when you release from the REVERSE poistion. But I would find out WHY IT SNAPPED!! That means that the cable going back probably has to sharp of bends on the way back there and has to be directed to the back in a straight line. So check the OUTSIDE TUBING of the Cable and it probably broke right around a sharp bend. When you pulled on it it gauged into the tubing on the INSIDE of the bend and got hung up and broke there.
Alleyoop
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Post by kenb6656 on Feb 4, 2010 9:39:57 GMT -5
Alley
The cable broke right at handle end. When I move the handle there is only a short piece of bare jagged cable sticking out of the tubing. So do you like the idea of an electric activated reverse?
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Post by WildMan on Feb 4, 2010 12:23:52 GMT -5
kenb6656
OK I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is.. I have the same setup but no breakage problem, knock on wood.. The problem is the cable adjuster is to close to the lever, when you actuate the lever to reverse it forces cable out at a fairly sharp angle in relation to the adjuster, & cable rubs on the end of the adjuster, which wears & or cuts cable.. Now in the adjuster there's a slot cut away that goes the length of the adjuster...
FIX:
Option #1: Turn adjuster so the slot of the adjuster is toward the rear & allow the cable to ride in the slot.. This is the way mine is, I've looked at this for several months, I don't like it, but didn't change it because I knew it would spoil the cable..
Option #2: Shorten the adjuster at the lever, the readjust cable..
Option #3: Purchase the shift lever that mounts to the side of trike down next to foot board..
David Sr.
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Post by als01seville on Feb 4, 2010 12:32:45 GMT -5
Kenb6656, Sorry, I did not answer that question. I think it would be cool to have an electric operated Reverse and Forward setup. But it will have to be a pretty strong little motor.
At the Handlebar does it bend the cable when you squeeze it? If so thats not good, take any wire and start bending it back and forth and it will break. If it broke right at the noob then its a problem with the way they built the cable. Another thing we all Trikers might want to do is fine a thicker cable or a cable of better quality.
Alleyoop
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Post by kenb6656 on Feb 4, 2010 21:29:39 GMT -5
The linear actuators that I have found so far have 10 lbs pull
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Post by als01seville on Feb 4, 2010 21:43:13 GMT -5
Kenb6656, Cool that should be more than enough pull. Can the linear movement be adjusted and are they they 12v?
Alleyoop
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Post by kenb6656 on Feb 4, 2010 23:17:04 GMT -5
Still researching all the information. I needed to know if 10 lbs was enough, I still need to determine exactly how much movement I need it to have. I just think electric would be a lot nicer than the cable. I even thought about bypassing the headlght switch, and using that for reverse. Seeing as how legally they should not be able to be turned off with the ignition on anyway.
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Post by als01seville on Feb 5, 2010 12:13:01 GMT -5
Kenb6656, Here are pictures of the Movement from Forward to Reverse, Its about 1/4-3/8 thats all: Alleyoop This is the FORWARD Position:  This is the REVERSE Position:  |
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Post by aileronjack on Feb 5, 2010 14:16:43 GMT -5
Ken:
I really like the idea of an eletronic acutator. Given that it will need to move the mechanism on top of the tranny a 1/4 inch of rotation, naturally, due to the inadvertent length of cable, the cable wire has to be moved a greater distance. Depending on the location on the bike you place the actuator, I think it's going to be a trial and error to finally determine the final distance movement of an acuator arm.
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Post by sc150rider on Feb 9, 2010 13:30:51 GMT -5
I had electronic actuators on the '51. A word of advice...If you get the solenoids, get the ones that are rebuildable (if still available), as the weather will wear them out, sometimes quickly. Also, just find a place to mount the solenoid, then adjust the cable length to 'match' what you need to pull the switch. You'll find that the cable will seem to stretch no matter how tight you make the connection between solenoid and switch.
Like aileronjack said, it's gonna be trial and error, but will be neat set-up when done.
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Post by als01seville on Feb 9, 2010 17:55:12 GMT -5
I would not use a cable, I would use a Thick solid wire and only about 4" long with the actuator mounted as close as possible to the Reverse Mechanism. The actuator must be adjustable that would pull about at least 1/4 to 3/8 only and release the same amount. Just like a SERVO on Radio Control Planes they have some very powerfull Servos That can be adjusted to rotate left and right any number of degress.
Alleyoop
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Post by aileronjack on Feb 9, 2010 21:15:27 GMT -5
Ken:
Ya know, what Alley has suggested is dead on. Really, it makes a lot of sense. The more length in your cable, the more likely it is to have play. Comparatively, a short thick wire will be less likely to stretch, nor will it have the play.
Pictures dude. We are rooting for you and your idea; and are well pleased at your suggestion. Take several pictures along specific intervals during the installation process.
Alley and Dwild are exceptional at this. If it weren't for their thoughtfulness and excellent planning toward when to take the photo, we would be left to handle our own modifications blindly without soild, proven, and experienced guidance. I just threw a bone to Dwild for his muffler audio, and one to Alley for his "short/thick" wire suggestion. We want to throw you one as well.
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Post by WildMan on Feb 9, 2010 22:03:24 GMT -5
Alley
I just noticed a problem in your pics of the gear box!!
David Sr.
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Post by als01seville on Feb 9, 2010 22:17:35 GMT -5
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Post by als01seville on Feb 9, 2010 22:30:04 GMT -5
Alley I just noticed a problem in your pics of the gear box!! David Sr. Dwild62, What problem? Alley |
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Post by WildMan on Feb 9, 2010 23:48:26 GMT -5
Alley
It's TO CLEAN!! WHY DON'T YOU LET ME TAKE CARE OF THAT FOR YOU!! ;D ;D Heck it doesn't look like it's been out of the garage!! I think you've been riding in circles in the garage!! Maybe something like this!!
David Sr.
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Post by als01seville on Feb 10, 2010 0:00:00 GMT -5
DWILD62, HAHAHA!! Here I am looking at the damn thing looking for something WRONG in there that I didn't see. I told you, I do not take it out WHEN THE STREETS ARE WET. I like a CLEAN PIECE OF EQUIPMENT:)
Alleyoop
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Post by WildMan on Feb 10, 2010 1:14:13 GMT -5
Alleyoop I should bring mine over to your place so you can clean it, & I'll take your & break it in for you.. You know just for the day, that should be enough time..  David Sr. |
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Post by als01seville on Feb 10, 2010 1:33:21 GMT -5
Dwild62, HUH!! No thank you I don't even clean my own. I take mine to FULLERS CAR WASH:) They wash it and dry and shine the chrome wheels and put armoral on the tires:)
Alleyoop
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Post by WildMan on Feb 10, 2010 2:03:48 GMT -5
Alley
WHAT!!!!!!!
What do they charge you for the spit & shine?? Heck you better just leave it in the garage!!
David Sr.
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Post by als01seville on Feb 10, 2010 2:11:40 GMT -5
Dwil62,
Well here is the thing, for XMAS my sons ask me what I want and I tell them FULLERS CAR WASH GIFT Certificates:) So they each buy me a 10 pack book:) Now they run $14.00 for each wash for a CAR but Since its only a SCOOT they only take half of the Certificate so its only $7.00 dollars a SPIT & SHINE:)
BUT DON'T FORGET NOT OUT OF MY POCKET:)
Alleyoop
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Post by als01seville on Feb 10, 2010 17:29:33 GMT -5
Hi Dawgs, I found this 12v PULL SOLENIOD cheap. www.alltronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=04N019I called to find out the Pulling force but the guy couldn't tell me. He then said to wait and he would try it. He came back on the phone and said he source of power was not enough. And he said He could not pull the Plunger out by hand either. The Soleniod retracts max 1" so it could be made to work. Does anyone have any Idea if you cannot even pull the Plunger out by hand is that a pretty strong magnetic? Its only 3.95 each but the min order is $15.00 so 4 would have to be ordered plus shipping. So $25.00 would have to be spent to see if it has enough pull if not then 4 soleniods are crap:) Alleyoop |
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Post by kenb6656 on Feb 10, 2010 21:49:24 GMT -5
I need to know what the diameter of the threaded end of the reverse cable is where it attaches to the transmission. I had an chance too look a little closer at the transmission today and I don't think there is enough clearance between the cable mounting bracket and the starter solenoid to mount the actuator. But I have not given up on the project yet.
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Post by als01seville on Feb 10, 2010 23:03:28 GMT -5
Kenb6656, Tomorrow I will measure it, but why do you need to know the threaded end diameter? Its just a bracket that holds the threaded end of the cable. Explain your thoughts on mounting.
Alleyoop
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Post by kenb6656 on Feb 14, 2010 18:58:46 GMT -5
The solenoid I was thinking about mounting will screw into the existing bracket. I did some price checking for a solenoid with about 10 lbs of pull, and about 1/2 " of pull, working at 12 volts, with a long enough duty cycle (the time it is engaged) is quite spendy, I found one nearby , but they want $149.00 for it! It is about 1 1//2 " diameter, and about 3 1/2 " long. I am not sure if I want an electricly activated reverse that bad. With the size of this solenoid I think with leaving the 90 degree, that is already there and mounting the solenoid to a fabricated bracket on the right side swing arm might do the trick. Hey didn't somebody say earlier in this post they were going to throw me a bone?
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Post by als01seville on Feb 14, 2010 21:57:38 GMT -5
Kenb6656, I will throw you a bone just for the idea and and looking into it.
But don't give up I am not, I found some pull actuators for $75.00 and thought that was to much:) But I will keep looking. Mounting it I do not believe is a problem, granted a piece of plate may have to added to mount it but thats a no brainer. I don't think the reverse will be used that much I bet less than the times you use the starter to start the engine.
Alleyoop
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Post by wolfhound on Feb 15, 2010 10:47:20 GMT -5
AlleyOop: Dumb question. Can the foward setting be put in place manually and the reverse not used at all? As light as the 150-8 ruckus clone is I dont need reverse anyhow. Once it is put in place manually will it stay there?
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Post by WildMan on Feb 15, 2010 12:16:40 GMT -5
A wolfhound
Yep, believe so.. If you don't have any adjustment left, just disconnect cable.. Shift shaft is spring loaded into the forward gear.. W/ cable unhooked it should be all the way into the forward gear..
David Sr.
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Post by als01seville on Feb 15, 2010 16:23:32 GMT -5
Wolfhound, Yes you can disconnect and even take the cable completely off if you want. The forward gear setting is spring loaded thats why its hard to get it into reverse. You are fighting the Spring to get it out of Forward. You Notice when in Reverse it has to be held in that position otherwise it will go back into Forward automatically due to the Spring.
Alleyoop
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