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Post by Bought a Morph on Nov 22, 2009 20:28:09 GMT -5
UPDATE:
In fairness to the Helix, I woke up with a flat rear tire today. The lack of stability I've been feeling lately was likely due to the tire losing air. I pumped up the tire and it's much better now. This does not change the fact that the Morph is still considerably more stable and on another level, IMO.
After living with my two Helixes for a while now, I've very recently purchased an 06 Yamaha Morphous with under 200 miles.
Since it appears the Morp was inspired by the Helix design, Virtually identical numbers in terms of overall length and wheelbase and displacement etc and I own two Helixes and now an 06 Morph. It makes since to compare the two.
After reading this comparison a few months ago (http://thescooterscoop.blogspot.com/2005/09/honda-helix-defends-its-title-against.html) and having lived with the Helix for some time, I was not expecting the Morph to impress me to any great degree. I was wrong.
The very first thing I noticed when I took my first ride on the Morph is the solid feel. It feels significantly more solid in construction than the Helix. The ergonomics are a huge improvement, The sitting position, the lower back rest and the handlebar position are all light years ahead of the Helix. The Yamaha is easier to ride and control, The steering in more precise and balanced and tracks much straighter than the Helix. Once again, the overall feeling is of an extremely solid well built machine.
I took the Morp on the HW for the first time a few days ago, at 70 mph I felt much safer, in control and comfortable on the Morph. It goes where you point it and does not need constant correction like the Helix. It also performs much better in the wind. I did not know how much the wind effected the Helix until I took the Morph out riding at 70mph in windy conditions.
I love my two Helixes but I have to be honest here, compared to the Morp, they feel and perform like they were designed 25 years ago ;D where as the Morph behaves like a very modern machine.
None of this may come as a surprise considering the age of the Helix design but I mention it because I am perplexed by Steve's
(scooter Scoop) total lack of comments pertaining to the most obvious differences between the two scooters.
Don't misunderstand my comments. The Helix still holds up as a great scooter but it's hard to imagine anyone thinking it's as good or even almost as good as the Morphous.
In my experience thus far, The Yamaha Morphous is more than just a step up from the Helix, It's on a whole other level.
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Post by ♣Luke♣ on Nov 22, 2009 22:43:20 GMT -5
i totally agree. i own 06 morph myself. if i want more power,i am going to buy 400cc maxiscoot for a second scooter,but i will never sell my morphous,i'll keep it forever.
i got a chance to ride a 600cc Honda silverwing last saturday, sorry to say but it's normal operating noise and engine vibration just shook my brain. , few minutes after that, i rode my morphous and felt the big difference in handling,morphous is waaaaay smooth to ride.
yeah,yeah,yeah,silverwing has more power because it's 600cc. but i don't need too much power. but in fairness to the SW,it can go 75mph all day.
i need a smooth steady stable ride with 68mpg gas mileage,and morph did the task flawlessly.
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Post by bananazx on Nov 23, 2009 1:19:09 GMT -5
I got to test ride Morphous if I have a chance. I used to own a Silverwing and it was smooth as silk.
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Post by WarrenS on Nov 23, 2009 9:31:19 GMT -5
I am also a former Helix owner with a Morph. On the highway my Helix seemed to have a hinge in the middle. I got used to it after a while. The Morph is more stable. Just point it where you want to go and sit back. The Morph engine has a long stroke, the same length as the Majesty. This is good for torque. It would also shake a lot but it has a gear driven balancer and impressive smoothness.
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Post by ♣Luke♣ on Nov 23, 2009 9:41:52 GMT -5
I got to test ride Morphous if I have a chance. I used to own a Silverwing and it was smooth as silk. na' ah! not as smooth as the morphy!! my standard of smooth ride is very high. LOL!! i like SW on hilly roads tho..  ,power is overwhelming. |
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Post by CCProf on Nov 23, 2009 9:44:45 GMT -5
Comparing the specs, the Morph wins hands down.
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Post by Bought a Morph on Nov 23, 2009 11:24:40 GMT -5
I am also a former Helix owner with a Morph. On the highway my Helix seemed to have a hinge in the middle. I got used to it after a while. The Morph is more stable. Just point it where you want to go and sit back. The Morph engine has a long stroke, the same length as the Majesty. This is good for torque. It would also shake a lot but it has a gear driven balancer and impressive smoothness. What do you mean by a "hinge in the middle"? Also, are you saying the Morph would shake without the balancer or are you saying it shakes now? |
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Post by Bought a Morph on Nov 23, 2009 11:46:47 GMT -5
i totally agree. i own 06 morph myself. if i want more power,i am going to buy 400cc maxiscoot for a second scooter,but i will never sell my morphous,i'll keep it forever. i got a chance to ride a 600cc Honda silverwing last saturday, sorry to say but it's normal operating noise and engine vibration just shook my brain. , few minutes after that, i rode my morphous and felt the big difference in handling,morphous is waaaaay smooth to ride. yeah,yeah,yeah,silverwing has more power because it's 600cc. but i don't need too much power. but in fairness to the SW,it can go 75mph all day. i need a smooth steady stable ride with 68mpg gas mileage,and morph did the task flawlessly. I have my eye on a 2011 Kymco 300i. 299cc, 33HP and weighs just 367 lbs compared to the Morph's 405lbs. I won't buy a new one so I'll have to wait until they start showing up on the used market but this bike might be perfect for the 150 -200 mile trips I take from Pa to LI NY. I've done it on the Helix. I Had a great ride down, not so great on the return trip. I'm sure the Morphous will handle it better but anything with a 250cc engine is not going to produce the performance I want on the interstates. The 300i looks like it will. |
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Post by WarrenS on Nov 23, 2009 14:12:39 GMT -5
By saying a hinge in the middle I meant that when going through a corner it didn't feel real solid. A long stroke single would vibrate more than a shorter stroke. The Morph engine is under square meaning the bore is less than the stroke. It has a longer stroke than the Helix or even my Burgman. That means the balance provided by the gear driven deserves credit for making the engine smooth.
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Post by JR on Nov 23, 2009 16:57:19 GMT -5
I'm sure the Morphous will handle it better but anything with a 250cc engine is not going to produce the performance I want on the interstates.
The 250 X-speed with 25 HP and a weight of about 360lbs will do just fine on the interstates! JRR
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Post by ♣Luke♣ on Nov 23, 2009 18:52:21 GMT -5
Morphous is the most judged scooter by it's appearance ever. it's either you like the style or not like the style. people don't get to test ride this maxiscoot and experience the handling and rideability,that is why maybe it's not widely marketed in the US. only 1,600 units all over america. small portion of it are still in the dealership showroom for sale.
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Post by Bought a Morph on Nov 23, 2009 22:46:48 GMT -5
The 250 X-speed with 25 HP and a weight of about 360lbs will do just fine on the interstates! JRR My Helix does " just fine" on the interstate. I'm looking for better than "just fine". Even the Ninja 250 struggles if you need to pass at 60mph or faster, according to some of the guys on the Ninja forum. Besides that 250 X-speed is one of the ugliest things I've seen. ;D. Definitely a 400cc in my future to meet my wants and needs on the highways. |
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Post by JR on Nov 24, 2009 2:45:00 GMT -5
Well just don't know myself I am a Yamaha man but the Morphous well let's just say it's like this old song; www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ltTzLMgJQBesides it being heavier and slower than the X-speed just adds to the misery don't blame ya for wanting 400cc in this case! LOL JRR |
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Post by CCProf on Nov 24, 2009 6:55:32 GMT -5
The Xpeed still kicks butt.
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Post by Bought a Morph on Nov 24, 2009 14:15:03 GMT -5
Well just don't know myself I am a Yamaha man but the Morphous well let's just say it's like this old song; www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ltTzLMgJQBesides it being heavier and slower than the X-speed just adds to the misery don't blame ya for wanting 400cc in this case! LOL JRR You're the only one expressing misery in this thread. I just wrote a glowing review of the Morphous. Perhaps you need a lesson in comprehension. Keep your super duper 250cc Interstate tourer which leaps buildings in a single bound. It's not my fault your expectations are so low. I'll take a bigger bike for the Highways and keep the Morphous for reasons you'll never experience with the super duper Xspeed.! ;D  |
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Post by JR on Nov 24, 2009 22:53:02 GMT -5
Now now now there ya go again blabbering off at the mouth again about something ya don't even know about! Nope not miserable unless being so full of mama's fresh pumpkin pie is called being miserable! LOL
I wasn't the one a while back who was saying that a 14Hp 400 lb+ scooter that BTW is ugly could out run a 360 lb 25Hp scooter got challenged to a race and then with all the egg on theri face had to eat a plate of crow when called out! LOL Ya must have had one of those nazi moments! LOL I don't even own a X-speed but if I did I'd be feeding your miserable don't like the country I live in face some crow too!
But go ahead and fall into the old buying a bigger scooter so you can be like all of your government friends and be macho and say Hey I couldn't out run the little scooter so "me buy big scoot" LOL You'll keep the Morphous and the helix's for the one reason of they're used and no one is just knocking down your doors to buy them! LOL That's easy to comprehend! You're just part of the ever raging conspircy and for sure don't drink the water!! It's got the bad old chemical chlorine in it man it'll kill ya!! LOL JRR
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Post by Bought a Morph on Nov 24, 2009 23:51:57 GMT -5
I wasn't the one a while back who was saying that a 14Hp 400 lb+ scooter that BTW is ugly could out run a 360 lb 25Hp scooter got challenged to a race and then with all the egg on theri face had to eat a plate of crow when called out! LOL Ya must have had one of those nazi moments! LOL I don't even own a X-speed but if I did I'd be feeding your miserable don't like the country I live in face some crow too! But go ahead and fall into the old buying a bigger scooter so you can be like all of your government friends and be macho and say Hey I couldn't out run the little scooter so "me buy big scoot" LOL You'll keep the Morphous and the helix's for the one reason of they're used and no one is just knocking down your doors to buy them! LOL That's easy to comprehend! You're just part of the ever raging conspircy and for sure don't drink the water!! It's got the bad old chemical chlorine in it man it'll kill ya!! LOL JRR Brilliant response!  You're not only a complete nincompoop, you're also a liar. I know exactly what you are referring to and I've never once suggested a Helix or Morphous would beat the Xspeed or any other scooter in a race. I also don't' believe anyone challenged me to a scooter race. LOL! I challenged you before to pull up the thread and prove me wrong. Should be easy enough. I've been waiting and waiting..... still waiting. I would never challenge or accept a challenge to race scooters. It's a completely silly concept. If I want fast, I wouldn't be riding scooters. I'll leave scooter races up to guys like you! broom broom broom!!!! LOL!  |
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Post by Ixty on Nov 25, 2009 0:15:01 GMT -5
LOL - *Breaks you two up*! Both of you are hilarious (and I mean it), let's be nice to each other. After all, when your tire catches a flat, I'm guessing one or the other is going to be pulling over to help *gasp* Holy carp it's him!  AND SPEED OFF! J/K |
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Post by Bought a Morph on Nov 25, 2009 0:31:28 GMT -5
Not exactly sure what I did to jrryan but he has now chased me to at least three different threads, Including my for sale thread in the classifieds section, and posted some silliness designed to annoy me and get a reaction. Up until now I was simply accommodating him but I agree it's time to move on.
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Post by Ixty on Nov 25, 2009 1:42:27 GMT -5
Well, both of you need to chill -
My recommendation: let's drop the politicized banter - keep it at home and let's talk scoots!
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Post by natefromogden on Nov 26, 2009 22:25:49 GMT -5
Once you guys get done wrasslin, I'll just say that if you happen upon a crash damaged Yamaha Majesty, I want to know so I can buy it. From my research, it looks like the Majesty engine is a direct replacement for my Morphous engine... No faster but more powerful.
And hey, I'd have the only one!
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Post by WarrenS on Nov 27, 2009 9:56:02 GMT -5
Nate, considering how low prices of used scooters are now you could get a used Majesty. Then swap the motor and you would have a 250 Majesty and a 400 Morphous. If it didn't work out you could change it back. Once the market picks up due to improvement in the economy and higher gas prices you could even make a profit.
I think I need to rest now. That was too much thinking.
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Post by Bought a Morph on Nov 28, 2009 11:08:01 GMT -5
Once you guys get done wrasslin, I'll just say that if you happen upon a crash damaged Yamaha Majesty, I want to know so I can buy it. From my research, it looks like the Majesty engine is a direct replacement for my Morphous engine... . I heard that the engine in the Morph is the same one in the Majesty 250cc over seas, Where did you hear that the 400 is a direct swap? Even if it's the same physical size and uses the same case, I would think there are modifications to make it fit. I doubt you can just switch em... If you're right, then I would seriously think about doing the same thing with my Morph. I'm undecided about the power/weight ratio of the Morph. It's so smooth and quiet that it may be deceiving me but the Helix I have seems to have more torch available and seems more responsive at times. Again, I do not have enough time on the Morph to reach a conclusion. It may be that it's just so damn smooth and quite.  No faster? The Majesty is considerably faster than Morphous and the Morph being 62lbs lighter than the Majesty,should be MUCH faster than the Majesty with a 400cc engine in it. |
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Post by flyangler on Nov 28, 2009 11:17:33 GMT -5
Morph, I think he might be refering to the 250 Majesty engine, I wondered about that too.
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Post by WarrenS on Nov 28, 2009 17:26:15 GMT -5
The Morph engine has the same stroke as the Majesty 400. The bore is much smaller to make it a 250. I heard of another owner who checked the external dimensions of the 2 engines and found them to be similar. You can't just bore it out and replace the piston because there are balance problems as well as the fuel injection and gearing to deal with.
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Post by Bought a Morph on Dec 1, 2009 13:29:07 GMT -5
warstein,
How does the power and speed of the Morphous compare with your old Helix? I have my own thoughts but want to hear what you have to say first.
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Post by WarrenS on Dec 1, 2009 17:20:05 GMT -5
The Morph is stronger on the top end. The Helix seemed quicker off the line if my memory serves. The top speed of my 87 Helix was about 5 mph slower than the Morphous although I really haven't tried checking its top speed. On the Helix I used to cruise at 70 but there wasn't much left after that. They don't recommend pushing the Morph engine that high due to the long stroke. They even have a rev limiter. With a long stroke the piston travels farther for each rpm. That is why modern engine design prefers a shorter stroke.
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Post by JR on Dec 2, 2009 11:44:55 GMT -5
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Post by Bought a Morph on Dec 2, 2009 13:48:36 GMT -5
The Morph is stronger on the top end. The Helix seemed quicker off the line if my memory serves. The top speed of my 87 Helix was about 5 mph slower than the Morphous although I really haven't tried checking its top speed. On the Helix I used to cruise at 70 but there wasn't much left after that. These are my conclusions as well. I noticed right away. The very initial acceleration pulls the Morph faster until perhaps 20mph but than the Helix pulls stronger, I especially notice on the big hills around here. I must say, I am a bit disappointed. Almost everything I've read before buying the Morph, including professional reviews, said the Morph has plenty of power. Even in the Comparison of the Helix and Morph, linked to above, Bill said the Morph was faster and the throttle more responsive. I disagree. Yesterday I plugged the flat tire on the helix and took it for a ride and after riding the Morph for the past week, a few things became obvious right off the bat. The Helix is quicker with more available torque to climb hills and pass. The Yamaha is so much more stable and comfortable. I never really liked the Helix's steering feel and now I like it even less. The Morph is much easier to control and steer. From the very beginning, with both of my Helixs, I felt that they were not the easiest machines to ride but I had never ridden a scooter so did not have anything in which to compare. Now I do and while I don't want to be to hard on the Helix, it feels like a toy in comparison. Very unsettling. You have to constantly think and correct the steering while the Morph lets you relax and enjoy the ride. The only time I feel let down with the Morph is when I hit the throttle and expect more from the engine, especially when climbing a hill. I was hoping the morph would replace my Helix on my 150 -200 mile interstate trips to visit family and while it's far more competent on the HW, It's probably goign to be replaced with a Majesty of Burgman this spring. Do you mean Yamaha does'nt recommend it or just in general? |
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Post by JR on Dec 2, 2009 15:03:46 GMT -5
victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htmPros and cons with both designs a long stroke type of engine is generally a longer lasting engine that doesn't run at as high of RPM as a short stroke which are made for faster running and RPM's! When a lot of the early engines came out long stroke was generally the preferred engine but as people wanted more take off and speed short stroke engines became a lot more popular ex the short block Chevy series that started in the 60's! Long stroke engines properly geared will run at a higher top end with lower RPM's thus they don't work as hard! A short stroke engine has to run at a higher RPM to achieve the same top end results thus engine wear is greater! As in anything it all depends on what you want; Long stroke = good mid range to top end, longer lasting, better MPG and less take off power Short stroke = good low to mid range, less MPG, great take off power, shorter life. JRR
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,power is overwhelming.
AND SPEED OFF! J/K 
No faster? The Majesty is considerably faster than Morphous and the Morph being 62lbs lighter than the Majesty,should be MUCH faster than the Majesty with a 400cc engine in it.