Perhaps the Automatic's Time is near at hand.

[Jacine]

Ridley Motorcycle Company announced major gains at their Houston area dealerships over last year, bucking reports of an industry slowdown. The company further announced American Dream Cycles in Houston and Xtreme Custom Choppers in Bacliff are leading the country in sales of new Ridley Motorcycles. The sales of Ridley Automatic motorcycles in the Houston market is up 140 percent over last year.

"I believe the overall industry may be down because rider demographics are changing but for the most part, the product is not," said Bob Kay, director of sales at Ridley Motorcycle Company. "Ridley motorcycles are different because they appeal to these new demographics such as first time riders and women, as well as experienced riders who are getting back into motorcycling."

According to the Motorcycle Industry Council, the number of female motorcycle riders has increased 36 percent since 1998. As the female demographic increases, many motorcycle companies are looking for ways to capture a significant market share.

"Some companies are trying to court new and female riders through 'shop parties' but the bikes they demonstrate are too heavy and complicated to ride," said Clay Ridley, president and founder of Ridley Motorcycle Company. "We're seeing a lot of customers learn about our motorcycles at these parties and come purchase a Ridley because it actually fits the rider. These customers are looking for a motorcycle with a low seat height, light weight and a low center of gravity. This exactly describes any Ridley Motorcycle."

Ridley is introducing many new model options for 2008 including a redesigned Sport, a completely new Auto-Glide Standard model, and an automatic, three-wheeled "Trike". Base model prices range from $13,995 to $25,995. Ridley Motorcycles are sold throughout the world. Their dealership network spans over 60 US markets, Canada, Puerto Rico, the Philippines and Japan. Ridley is looking to expand into the majority of the EU member countries in the near future.

These are automatic bikes, no clutch and no shifter. I think they are somewhat overpriced for what they are, but they do seem to be selling. 750cc v twin engine.

[dudel]

jacine said:

These are automatic bikes, no clutch and no shifter. I think they are somewhat overpriced for what they are, but they do seem to be selling. 750cc v twin engine.

The fact that these underpowered and overpriced bikes - with little or no dealer support or service - sell at all is indicative of demand for an automatic motorcycle. They are clunky bikes with low-tech engines and cheap inefficient transmissions. The Beverly-250 and similar scooters have more power, a higher top-end, and better reliability than their "750" bike but unfortunately they look like scooters rather than proper motorcycles. Had PiaggioCorp saw fit to put their modern fuel-injected 850 engine with electronic CVT in a bike styled like the Moto Guzzi Nevada rather than a naked sportbike they would have captured the Ridley market; women who want to get off the back of their husband's Harley. Of course, for less than the $25,995 for their bucket-o-bolts you could buy a new Aprilia 850 Mana and transplant the engine, transmission, and electronics into a custom cruiser frame and have a real motorcycle.

My 2-cents

[YellowScooter]

I'd love to see an EVO or an S&S super in front of that CVT. There's plenty of room for one in that nearly-empty looking cradle of Ridley's chopper model.

[stewntexas]

In the mid to late 70's, Honda made automatics from 400cc up to 750cc. I bought my wife one of the 400's, and it was what you are describing now. Low seat height, low center of gravity, relaively low weight and a HONDA engine.

These automatics were almost bulletproof. Some drag racers were buying them for the transmissions.

BUT, they were not macho. It is my opinion that at least 99% of the cycle purchases are based on the macho factor, causing the death of cycles going against the grain.

[WarrenS]

I remember when a real man kicked his cycle to life. I was one of the first to go for the electric leg as I have a scar on my leg from when my foot slipped off the starter. ;D

[Jacine]

It's that same macho american attitude that keeps all the good bikes in Europe.

[stewntexas]

As far as 'kicking it to life' goes, my old BMW R-27 was kick start only. The only problem was that the starter lever operated perpendicular to the bike axis. That meant the only way you could start it was to get off, hold the right throttle grip in your right hand, your left hand on the seat bracket, press down with your foot. Could not be started while on the bike.

This was one big mess if you stalled in traffic. Imagine having to jump off to use the kickstarter. BMW must have some reason for doing it this way as most of their designs were above average, just not this one.

[scootgap]

warstein said:

I remember when a real man kicked his cycle to life. I was one of the first to go for the electric leg as I have a scar on my leg from when my foot slipped off the starter. ;D

I know from where you come Warstein. Had a 66" Ducati Monza, kick only, and many a time the kick starter road up the inside of my ankle resulting in pain and much cussing. Also, as you would attempt to position the kick starter for a good kick the engine could suddenly pop over and send your knee out of joint. Hooray for electric start. I enjoy my CVT scoot but for a high performance bike I'd still rather stir my own. I don't believe it's a macho thing but rather a mechanical joy of interacting with the machine or something like that.

[earlwb]

I used to own a Vincent HRD Black Shadow ages ago. before I sold it, it almost killed me one day, when I went to kick start it and the stupid kick starter didn't engage and my foot slammed into the pavement. it was about a month or so before I could kick start it again. Man did that hurt my foot, ankle, knee, hip and back too.

I used to own a crappy beat up Harley XLCH 900, and everyone would wait for me to get it started before they would fire up their rides. I was something of a laughing stock at the time. But once it started no one would laugh at me anymore though, as it did have more power than they did.

Nope I don't really miss kick starters. At the time we didn't know any better. But when electric starters came along, the heck with kick starting. That is past history now.

I see the same thing with automatics too. People pooh pooh them now, but they quickly get to like them once they use them. Honda did have a 350 (or was it a 400) and a 750 for a while with a automatic. But I think they didn't really put much effort into marketing them. I think the bikes were too intimidating to beginners at the time, and the more advanced riders tended to pooh pooh them. It is too bad they discontinued them.

Scooters tend to look less intimidating to beginners. But they'll likely want to upgrade one day, so something that looks like a motorcycle but still has scooter like qualities with a automatic CVT drive or something just might be the ticket. Most beginners get something like a 50cc and quickly want to go faster as they develop better scootering skills. So I can see these as starting to take off Ok with the consumers.

[julio]

clonetrooper150 said:

I'd love to see an EVO or an S&S super in front of that CVT. There's plenty of room for one in that nearly-empty looking cradle of Ridley's chopper model.

Sounds cool but only problem is that the CVT will probably last 3 to 4 seconds without being torn apart.

[julio]

jacine said:

It's that same macho american attitude that keeps all the good bikes in Europe.

I agree 100%

[Jacine]

The EVO6 (Honda) 1000cc 4 cylinder is on the burner and has been shown at the shows. It has the automatic HFT Honda transmission. The DN01 is in production and will be selling around Aug 08 in Europe most likely. It has been modified for US with a rear foot brake, instead of a hand break and has passed DOT and EPA but don't expect to see it until close to 2010.

[dudel]

jacine said:

The EVO6 (Honda) 1000cc 4 cylinder is on the burner and has been shown at the shows. It has the automatic HFT Honda transmission.

The EVO6 uses the GoldWing 1832cc flat-six engine. They build the GW engine in Ohio. I'm sure HondaUSA would love to use the Ohio-built GW engine and low-horsepower Ohio-built VTX engine in a few more bikes rather than importing bikes with the dollar in the toilet. The Rune with the 1832cc engine was a flop and the EVO6 with the 1832cc engine and HFT will probably weight 800-lbs dry like the Rune.

However, if they built a lightweight version of the EVO using the Honda Griffon Concept 750 flat-four engine and HFT (with low seat height) I would be interested. But they won't; and if they did it wouldn't be a USA model.

[Jacine]

There was some talk of bringing back the Honda Rune to compete with the Victory. The Rune has been slipping into a lot of Honda's advertisements. There is a replacement of several parts with lighter and stronger metals to decrease the wt to a reasonable 700+.

[dudel]

jacine said:

There was some talk of bringing back the Honda Rune to compete with the Victory. The Rune has been slipping into a lot of Honda's advertisements. There is a replacement of several parts with lighter and stronger metals to decrease the wt to a reasonable 700+.

Yep, heard that. Heard that the Rune 1832cc was coming back at a lower price. Even with a slightly lighter weight that 68.9-inch wheelbase makes it too ridiculous for anything other than parking in front of a saloon. But the Victory Vision isn't competition for the Goldwing mostly due to the fact that Polaris has only one motorcycle engine - an air-cooled low-compression 100/106-cubic-inch 45-degree v-twin (i.e., Harley-esque engine) and that old-world engine simply doesn't belong in a Jetson bike. Also heard that the 1832cc engine would get the HFT. No idea whether it will look like the EVO6 but if the production bike is heavy, has a long wheelbase, and too tall seat height then what's the point? It's like the manufacturers are building automatic transmission bikes that are purposely designed to be useless as a city bike. For example, it was bizzarro-world logic for Yamaha to put their clutchless YCCS system in a huge 1300cc touring bike that spends 95% of the time on the highway in fifth gear only. Why does the Aprilia Mana have a 31.5-inch seat height? It's like they are trying to prove nobody wants an automatic by building the dumbest bikes.

[tyrssen]

I well remember the auto-trans Honda that StewnTexas mentioned. They didn't last long, and it's too bad. We'll probably never see a Harley twin-cam with an automatic tranny, and I don't think macho has anything to do with it. One does have a better feeling of control, when shifting gears ... same is true on cars. (Okay I confess: I'm old enough to remember manual trannies. Loved 'em.)

Kickstarters, I don't think anyone will miss; my 1959-ish Sportster started only when it bloody well felt like it, which is why I finally sold it. I, too, got a case of "Sportster knee" when the kicker fell through and slammed my leg into the ground, full-force. I rolled around on the ground for a while, experienceing a whole new level of pain, all the while wondering, "gee, did I break my leg? I really can't tell..."

Beemers will start when ya just step on 'em, more or less, if they're in good tune; and the old Hondas were a breeze, requiring minimim force. Old Harleys and Brit bikes, different story. I love 'em dearly, but don't wanna kick start anything any more.

Is there a future for automatic trannies in two-wheelers? A cautious "maybe." Dummy-proofing bikes is not a good idea. Stupidity is not an honorable death, if ya see what I mean. I used to see these squids on their Ninjas dressed in a bathing suit and a helmet all the time; do we need to make things easier for idiots like that? (And on the flip side, ol' geezers like m'self wouldn't mind the convenience. So I guess it could go either way.)

[Jacine]

dudel said:

Also heard that the 1832cc engine would get the HFT. No idea whether it will look like the EVO6 but if the production bike is heavy, has a long wheelbase, and too tall seat height then what's the point? It's like the manufacturers are building automatic transmission bikes that are purposely designed to be useless as a city bike. For example, it was bizzarro-world logic for Yamaha to put their clutchless YCCS system in a huge 1300cc touring bike that spends 95% of the time on the highway in fifth gear only. Why does the Aprilia Mana have a 31.5-inch seat height? It's like they are trying to prove nobody wants an automatic by building the dumbest bikes.

I have to agree. It doesn't make sense to create a bike that is hardly rideable and then put an automatic engine in it. Yamaha really created a mess with the FJR1300AE. The bike is top heavy and litterly falls over if the revs get too slow in the turns. That and the fact that the seat is wide and high doesn't allow many to flat foot it. Of course it is not a real automatic but an electronic shifter but the bike just doesn't ride well. And then Harley came out with the Vrod R. Beautiful performing bike except the seat was 31.5 inches, well above any other Harley seat. Noone wanted a bike they couldn't easily flat foot so it was removed from the 08 lineup.

Harley does have a semi automatic. The Vrod destroyer has no manual clutch.

[dudel]

jacine said:

And then Harley came out with the Vrod... Harley does have a semi automatic. The Vrod destroyer has no manual clutch.

The VRod is a sales flop because the 50yo+ demographic that buys HD wants a bike that looks like a 1950s motorcycle which for them is reminiscent of the old biker days or at least the way the movies portray the old biker days. The VRod is HD's only modern bike and the only HD I would be seen on. I wouldn't be caught dead on any of their old-fat-fart bikes.

If HD offered an under-warranty OEM pressure-plate type clutchless system I would be interested (I am not interested in the aftermarket clutchless pressure-plate kits). However, a clutchless Dyna Glide makes as much sense as a clutchless FJR1300. It would need to be in a lighter-weight modern looking bike with a modern engine like the VRod; if they could get the VRod wheelbase down to 60-inches while keeping the seat height under 29-inches and offer a clutchless system with a kliktronic type thumb shifter that would be a fun bike.

[WarrenS]

I believe the V-rod that Jacine referred to is a special model built just for drag racing. I think it even comes with a wheelie bar. I don't think it is street legal.

[Dennis D]

I don't know... doesn't look like it. There's a Yellow VRod R that was offered for sale on this page on December 20, it's plated, street legal, and no wheelie bar:

novascotiabikesfoprsale.blogspot.com/2007/12/2006-harley-v-rod.html

[WarrenS]

That Vrod doesn't have an automatic clutch. Here is the one she was talking about.
www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/Racing/vrxse_destroyer.jsp?locale=en_US

[Dennis D]

You know, I'm not sure how you can tell, both the VRod R and the VRod race bike with the wheelie bar have clutch levers.... maybe Jacine will pop back in here with an explanation.

[dudel]

dennisdh said:

You know, I'm not sure how you can tell, both the VRod R and the VRod race bike with the wheelie bar have clutch levers.... maybe Jacine will pop back in here with an explanation.

Just to be clear:

The VRod Destroyer track bike uses an MTC multi-stage lock-up clutch. Drag bikes often use an "automatic clutch" which is a pressure-plate type system as it allows the rider to twist the throttle and go without worry that the bike will stall at the starting-line due to an over-excited rider or conversely the rider behaving gingerly on the clutch let out.

References to "clutchless" or "automatic clutch" are common but inaccurate terms for pressure-plate type system like Revloc, Rekluse, etc. My comments about the production street-legal VRod and "clutchless systems" are based on the hypothetical of Harley offering a pressure-plate type lock-up clutch and whether such a bike would be either practical or desirable

About the clutch lever specifically, some dirt-bike riders will install an "automatic clutch" and replace the clutch lever with a rear brake lever like a scooter but in other applications the clutch lever is retained to assist when shifting. For example, Rekluse highly remmends that Harley owners retain the clutch lever because of the clunky Harley transmission.

The point I was trying to make is this: if Harley offered a Revloc/Rekluse type system on a production motorcycle:

[1] putting it on a Dyna Glide, etc. would likely resut in a big sales flop like the clutchless FJR1300

[2] to interest me personally it would need to be on modern looking bike with a modern engine like the VRod but with a shorter wheelbase

And I should probably add:

[3] to interest your average Harely wife who wants to get off the back of her husbands bike a "clutchless" pressure-plate type system would probably be more attractive in combination with a thumb-shift installed on a retro-styled bike that was closer to the physical size and weight of a Moto Guzzi Nevada than anything Harley currrenty offers.

Hope that clears everything up.
===================

[Jacine]

dennisdh said:

I don't know... doesn't look like it. There's a Yellow VRod R that was offered for sale on this page on December 20, it's plated, street legal, and no wheelie bar:

novascotiabikesfoprsale.blogspot.com/2007/12/2006-harley-

v-rod.html

That's not the destroyer. It may be the Screaming eagle CX but I Can't tell from the pic.

[Jacine]

warstein said:

That Vrod doesn't have an automatic clutch. Here is the one she was talking about.
www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/Racing/vrxse_destroyer.jsp?locale=en_US

That's the destroyer screaming eagle, with the multistage lock up clutch - semi automatic.

[Jacine]

The automatic clutches are a misnomer to the extent that you still have to use the shift foot lever but they are excellent when used on bigger bikes. EFM makes an racing autoclutch for any bike that will fit the Vrod, (centrifugal clutch). In the case of the vrod the clutch is different from most Harleys so the hand clutch lever is completely disconnected. In the other Harleys you keep the hand clutch lever and can use it or just upshift with minimal foot pressure and throttle. One finger clutch when using these centrifugal clutches, (use the original clutch basket and plates. The pressure plate is the centrifugal part. Add different clutch plates of kevlar or some additional plates and you now have a bullet proof, stall proof, semi automatic bike. You can also add a pingel electric shifter but the bike becomes extremely easy to shift without it. Harley is also making for the 08s a slipper clutch, (the autoclutches do the same thing) and everyone apparently is retrofitting them to the earlier models. So Harley is halfway there towards offering a semi automatic clutch.

[bob]

jacine said:

The automatic clutches are a misnomer to the extent that you still have to use the shift foot lever but they are excellent when used on bigger bikes. EFM makes an racing autoclutch for any bike that will fit the Vrod, (centrifugal clutch). In the case of the vrod the clutch is different from most Harleys so the hand clutch lever is completely disconnected. In the other Harleys you keep the hand clutch lever and can use it or just upshift with minimal foot pressure and throttle. One finger clutch when using these centrifugal clutches, (use the original clutch basket and plates. The pressure plate is the centrifugal part. Add different clutch plates of kevlar or some additional plates and you now have a bullet proof, stall proof, semi automatic bike. You can also add a pingel electric shifter but the bike becomes extremely easy to shift without it. Harley is also making for the 08s a slipper clutch, (the autoclutches do the same thing) and everyone apparently is retrofitting them to the earlier models. So Harley is halfway there towards offering a semi automatic clutch.

Don't know where you are getting your info from, but the Destroyer has a working clutch and an Air shifter.