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Post by phetish on Jul 1, 2009 22:02:24 GMT -5
Roketa 150 Sicily
I noticed that as the rear wheel is spinning, the axle nut (on the muffler side) spins as well.
It seems tight, but is it supposed to do that?
Thanks!
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Post by WildMan on Jul 2, 2009 0:24:06 GMT -5
 Yes it is..
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Post by phetish on Jul 2, 2009 0:43:49 GMT -5
woohoo! now if my rear wheel falls off... I'm going to drag my bruised and bleeding body to your door and ask you to explain what went wrong |
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Post by WildMan on Jul 2, 2009 2:06:58 GMT -5
;D Ya, I hear Ya!! I went down on my Goldwing last October, shattered the Plato in my left leg + Compartment Syndrome from running over my own leg. 3 surgeries & laid up for 4 months & still not back to work yet! So I do understand your concern.. The rear axle is the final drive shaft from the CVT, the bearings on the right side (muffler side) are pressed in the right side swing arm & the axle or the final drive shaft slide through the wheel assembly then through the bearings in the swing arm, the nut tightens against the inner bearing race which tighten against the wheel assembly. So being that the rear axle is the final drive shaft and the nut is on that shaft it has to turn.. So having said all that, if that brings you down then I'd be in the same boat as you because both my scooters are built the same way!! And remember I'm just getting back to being able to walk again & I'm surely not planning on kissing the pavement again. That episode rang up a $65,000 medical bill!!       So, you're alright.. |
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Post by trailheadmike on Dec 28, 2012 9:51:45 GMT -5
2012 -- here's a related problem -- when I just reinstalled my wheel, I can't get the axle nut to stay on. If I tighten too much, the wheel locks up. If I tighten to the torque setting and hand spin the wheel, the axle turns within the nut and it fall off. I can try locktite, etc, but I have had this nut on and off a few times and never had this happen. Is this a locknut that wore out? Time for a new nut? Any advice appreciated.
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 28, 2012 9:56:02 GMT -5
2012 -- here's a related problem -- when I just reinstalled my wheel, I can't get the axle nut to stay on. If I tighten too much, the wheel locks up. If I tighten to the torque setting and hand spin the wheel, the axle turns within the nut and it fall off. I can try locktite, etc, but I have had this nut on and off a few times and never had this happen. Is this a locknut that wore out? Time for a new nut? Any advice appreciated. check the axle theads or the lock nut could be shot . John |
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Post by trailheadmike on Dec 28, 2012 10:02:59 GMT -5
John - I'm thinking that I go to home depot tonight and get a typical old M14 locknut and see if that does anything. Any downside to that?
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 28, 2012 10:05:17 GMT -5
I wonder if the outter bearing is tight ? on the nut side , what if you spin the wheel backwards ?
John
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Post by trailheadmike on Dec 28, 2012 10:09:42 GMT -5
I'm not home so I'll give it a try. I'm not sure what you mean by outer bearing though. I put on the wheel, the 3" sleeve, the swing arm (which has a seal in it) the bushing (a large thick "washer" looking piece) and then the nut. I don't know which of these would be considered a bearing.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 28, 2012 10:16:17 GMT -5
2012 -- here's a related problem -- when I just reinstalled my wheel, I can't get the axle nut to stay on. If I tighten too much, the wheel locks up. If I tighten to the torque setting and hand spin the wheel, the axle turns within the nut and it fall off. I can try locktite, etc, but I have had this nut on and off a few times and never had this happen. Is this a locknut that wore out? Time for a new nut? Any advice appreciated. Then you most likely have the spacers in the wrong order. Is this drum or disk brake? If disk does it jamb without the brake caliper installed? |
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 28, 2012 10:21:50 GMT -5
the swing arm has a bearing in it it gets squeezed on both sides so it will turn with the axle and wheel .
John
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Post by trailheadmike on Dec 28, 2012 10:23:37 GMT -5
Its a linhai engine, and as described in the earlier post, there's not too much for even me to have messed up. Wheel, 3" spacer, swing arm, smaller spacer and nut. here's a picture WITHOUT the final spacer and nut:  |
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 28, 2012 10:26:50 GMT -5
if the bearing is not turning and the axle is it will spin the nut loose . I bet the bearing is frozen or tight . I have not come across this problem , but it makes sense .
John
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 28, 2012 10:28:14 GMT -5
I bet if you spin the wheel backwards it will tighten the nut .
John
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Post by trailheadmike on Dec 28, 2012 10:31:44 GMT -5
I will try it. I just checked this expanded view: roketa.com/product/parts_detail.jsp?partId=30732&partName=ENGINEI see what bearing you're talking about (part 35), but unless it is under the oil seal (part 35) it is not there. Specifically, it is NOT on the tire side of the swing arm. Maybe that;s part of the problem. If it tightens when I spin backwards, what does that indicate?? |
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 28, 2012 10:39:06 GMT -5
35 sits in the swing arm , that is the bearing I'm refering to . the oil seal I think is a dust cover. the bushings on both sides of the bearing press on the bearing . See if the axle shaft has wear marks on it . We have to talk when you infront of the scooter . Is that grease in there or sealler the orange I see in there .
John
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Post by trailheadmike on Dec 28, 2012 10:54:13 GMT -5
Thanks as always John. I didn't put anything on, and I think its grease.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 28, 2012 20:34:27 GMT -5
By the looks of things it would only bind if the bearing was bad or of you left out part 33 or put seal 36 or bushing 37 on the wrong side of the swing arm. Other common mistake that causes binding is getting the brake caliper assembled in the wrong order.
Parts 37 and 38 are considered by many to be one use disposible and to be replaced as a set.
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Post by dyoung1167 on Dec 29, 2012 10:07:43 GMT -5
i agree with seized bearing. as said, if you turn the wheel backwards after first tightening it will further tighten the nut. and you do have 35. it is the metal you see in your pic just behind the rubber dust/weather seal. i think earlier models may have used open bearings here that required periodic packing with new grease and why it's called an oil seal, but now, with sealed bearings this is just extra protection from the elements. mine has one on both sides of the bearing.
anyway, i'm 100% sure your problem lays within said bearing its self unless, somehow, your swing arm is bent and you are grossly torquing it at an angle binding the bearing which i doubt. a missing bushing wouldn't cause this as the threads are not long enough and the nut would bottom out first, but both bushings on the inside might. as mentioned by tvnacman everything tightens against the inner race. if this doesn't turn the friction is transferred to the nut and wheel, holding it in place and causing it to loosen as you turn the tire forward or tighten in reverse, and if real tight, simply won't allow the tire turn.
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Post by trailheadmike on Dec 30, 2012 19:33:00 GMT -5
Finally made it back to the garage, and the nut tightened when you turn the wheel backwards. I pulled the swing arm, and using the stick-your-finger-in-it method the bearing is frozen. Its a 6303RS sealed bearing, which I've since learned is very common and I can get it at a powersports place tomorrow. Its held in by a snap ring though, and the cheapo snap ring pliers I just bought from Harbor Freight can't cut it. I'll either have to see if I can borrow a pair or spend some money on a quality tool.
I'll keep you posted, and thanks for all the advice as always.
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 30, 2012 19:51:32 GMT -5
Mike take the swing arm with you , see if the place you buy it from will remove it for you . I dought a mechenic will lend a pair of snap ring plyers . any auto repair shop will have the tool . If you were closer I help you out .
John
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Post by trailheadmike on Jan 4, 2013 20:48:16 GMT -5
Got my better pliers, got my bearing (had to go mail order - no one seemed to stock this), but now the old one won't come out. Must be pressed in. I'm off to the lawnmower repair store tomorrow to have them pull it. So close!!!!!
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Post by tvnacman on Jan 4, 2013 20:58:47 GMT -5
Mike keep us posted, I have not done one of those bearings.
John
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Post by rockynv on Jan 4, 2013 22:38:07 GMT -5
I usually drive them out using a vice or hammer along with the closest matching socket from my impact wrench set.
Pay attention to the shaft for being worn down from spinning in the bearing. Rear wheel and axle issues can result if the shaft does not fit exactly in the center of the bearing any more.
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Post by trailheadmike on Jan 5, 2013 10:02:36 GMT -5
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Post by trailheadmike on Jan 12, 2013 12:42:36 GMT -5
Done. I waited another week for the seal, but I think the reason the old one was so smashed was because someone really crushed to get it in - the crevasse is really just deep enough for the bearing. since the bearing is sealed i ultimately left it out. I cleaned the axle and put on some lithium grease (as per the Yamaha 250 manual) and the bolt torqued right on and there it sits after my test ride. thanks to all as always, and great call John, Rockynv and dyoung for the bearing diagnosis (as well as the hint on how to get the new one in). Ride on dawgs!!!!
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Post by trailheadmike on Jan 14, 2013 16:24:39 GMT -5
Well, sorry to say that I lost the nut and bushing on my ride to work. I don't think its the bearing - I think the nut was probably damaged. The nut is easy, but BMS parts did not stock the bushing, nor did I see it on the web. Found it and ordered the two parts from Roketa, and nut + bushing +shipping = $27!!!!!
Reason I knew there was a problem - a slight "twist" everytime I hit or let off the gas. Looks like I'm going to be down yet another week.
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Post by rockynv on Jan 15, 2013 4:51:25 GMT -5
Well, sorry to say that I lost the nut and bushing on my ride to work. I don't think its the bearing - I think the nut was probably damaged. The nut is easy, but BMS parts did not stock the bushing, nor did I see it on the web. Found it and ordered the two parts from Roketa, and nut + bushing +shipping = $27!!!!! Reason I knew there was a problem - a slight "twist" everytime I hit or let off the gas. Looks like I'm going to be down yet another week. Those crush or clutch nuts are considered one time use. Sometimes you can get more out of them if you use Locktite but they are limited to how many times you can take them off and on. Touque does become critical when reusing them and sometimes you need to go a few lbs tighter then spec. |
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Post by trailheadmike on Jan 15, 2013 7:19:40 GMT -5
Thanks rockynv. When I looked to buy a new one I saw that they come as lock nuts - I didn't know that. The one I was putting back on didn't even have the plastic ring anymore, and it was probably the third or fourth time to be removed. Live and learn.
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Yes it is..
