WATER COOLER TO OIL COOLER I've Went Totally Crazy

[JR]

Ok I have an update. As I stated earlier I found that with these temps up to the 250+ range I would be looking to replace the Gates fuel line hose rated at 257 degrees with hydraulic line. Went to the auto parts this morning, was in a hurry and just asked the auto parts man to cut me a 9ft piece of the 1/4" ID hydraulic hose. Now I have discovered that even though this hose will forever handle the temp and never break I also didn't remember that there are different grades of this stuff and he has the what is called 3 braided type and it's $2.50 per foot!! I already had him cut it so I wasn't going to even think of backing out, won't make that mistake again, should have looked and asked. Oh well that's what I get for being in a hurry!! Now also this stuff is dang hard to put on your fittings and with the 3 braids when you slide it on your hose barb you had better have your mind made up!! It's a PITA if you ever won't to take it off!! Got to find a 300 degreee + hose that is easier to work with. JR

[numbski]

LOL - thanks for the head's up! I'm hopefully getting the extra oil plugs from my supplier today (the owner of the local bike shop), so with any luck my cheapo tap and die kit can get the job done.

It's been raining EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

I really don't want to go to the salvage yard unless it's had a few days to dry out first. I'll lose a shoe out there!

[numbski]

Was trying to find a US Vendor for this one:

www.dualsport.com/en/Digital+Speedos/ATV/ACE-3990.htm?section_id=21402&product_id=279



Unfortunately, that one is $200-ish vs the Vapor's $100. Just to get a fuel gauge.

[JR]

Yea know what you mean on the rain my poor garden is standing in water!!! Early in Feb it rained so much that it actually killed some of my plants!! I'm holding up again as the forecast this week is rain one day sun the next rain the next. Going to go out this afternoon and try to pull some of the dirt back around my poor cabbage!! Oh well I save rain water in big barrels as it will come in handy this summer when you and I are hot and begging for a cooling off shower!! LOL Yes just wanted to let you know about the hydraulic hose and there is certainly cheaper hydraulic hose around but the guy at my auto parts has the heavy kind and as I said I asked him to cut it before I checked it out and that's my fault but I'll guarantee you it'll be good for life!!! LOL

Hey numbski another thought is sometimes while one is looking for a cooler he can find one with the lines still on it and a guy might easily fit them in on his scooter, just a thought. I checked into power steering hose but it is only rated at 220 degrees JR

[JR]

Good Evening scootdawgs from it's not raining at the moment Arkieland. Finally got the hydraulic hose on all the fittings except the two down where the feed lines hook up and with a little luck I'm going to put it back on the scooter and be done with it. I may get it all tied together and then see if I can find me a computer fan at my buddy's shop and go ahead and install it just depends on if I have time. I would like to put a 50+cfm fan on this as I believe it will make a difference especially when you're in slow traffic.

I've been having a little vibration problem with the valve assembly on the bottom drain plug and even though it has not leaked any it gets loose due to the vibration of the engine. Well I solved that today while I had it down and it's this;



I went through all my parts and spare junk and found a thin jam nut that nearly fit the 1/8" nipple and I ran a pipe tap through it and put it on and then screwed the assembly back in tight and then tightened the jam nut down against the drain plug. Problem solved it won't get loose again! Again tomorrow I'm going to try to get it all back together and back to testing, supposed to be back in the mid 80's by mid week. JR

[JR]

Got her all back together today and also added the fan this was a pretty good little fan really puled air good and it only pulls 0.26 amps. It and the pump together are pulling less than one amp so I'll be fine on the power end. I'm going to look up this fan on their website and get the cfm. JR

[JR]

www.svc.com/da08020b12u.html

Well I found the specs on this little fan and as you can see it's 59cfm and boy it's expensive to buy! LOL I'm going to look this site over to see if I can find a higher cfm fan the same size as this because the 80mm X 80mm was just right which is about 3 1/8" square.

Guy these fans are easy to find with people who fix computers as they generally throw away crashed units that you can get the fans out of for free and they vary from like this one to as high as 100 cfm and 99% of them are 12vdc. Free is good! Most computers have 3 fans in them. JR

[JR]

OK have had some questions about the cooler so I thought I would update, will be posting the pump again as Ebay listings run out after 90 days. OK here is the pump listing again;

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Universal-12V-Electric-Fuel-Pump-Kit-20GPH-Flow_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5d26ea64a6QQitemZ400084853926QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Now I have been asked about the cooler also and again read the earlier posts where I got mine at a local auto salvage yard and also just the other day I was at a salvage yard just looking around and I noticed the hood up on a late model Ford Explorer and right in front in the grill area in front of the air conditioning condenser was the neatest little transmission oil cooler!! I asked the owner what he would take and he said $5!! Most generally salvage yards have a lot of these already removed and ready for sale. I'm a little lucky I guess because the guy will let me go remove things myself which saves me some bucks!

I also want to remind you to clean it good! I put mine in a big pan and poured hot boiling water on mine and then blew it out with an air hose and let her dry, gave her a new coat of black paint and she was as good as new!

It was about 12" X 10" with at least 12 cooling coil passes and where it was located it would take a whole 10 minutes to remove! Also it had crimp on hose connectors about 3/8" in size! This cooler was even better than the one I got, in fact I'm going to go get it and put it on my scooter because it has more cooling capacity than the one I got!

Also I would highly recommend the little cooling fan which as I said before one can easily get from an old computer! They come in 3 and 4", don't pull squat as far as wattage and when one is sitting still on a hot day they will move some air through the cooler. The cooler I just mentioned on the Ford is large enough to mount two fans on!

Also the nice thing about these little coolers is one can work with them and mount them in a way that they look nice and like they belonged there to start with!

Also I would like to say that since I installed this the only change I had to make was the hose I used originally. It was rated at 250 degrees but I know in the hot summertime the temps on the oil in this engine can exceed this temp a thing I learned afterward so I changed to 1/4" hydraulic hose and it will never break and can handle temps over 500 degrees but man it is a pain to work with!! LOL

So one might want to look at different hoses or even consider using copper tubing instead!

Also as I stated earlier I used brass fittings from the local auto parts but one can save some bucks by just using standard steel fittings from the hardware. If you want to eliminate drilling and tapping the bottom side drain plug you can also get this fitting at your local NAPA Auto store as mentioned by XS 650 earlier in this thread.

It is a M12 X 1.5 to 1/8 NPT by Equus Napa p/n 9848.

The last thing I want to mention is this cooler has worked nicely and along with the prodigy variator which has reduced the engine workload with lower RPM's I feel like this little GY-6 engine stands a lot better chance of having a longer life.

The pump has worked like a dream and I have run this scooter on 45 mile one trips in 95 + degree heat and she just keeps "keeping on" LOL JRR

[shookupart]

OMG!!!! HOw MUCH $$$$ my loyal fabricator!!!!??

this put ncy coolers in the dirt. When does mass production begin so we can all BE COOl for next summer!!!

you are a genious and +1

[anthonyvs]

Jrryan when you turn off the oil pump, does all the oil drain back into the engine or stay in place?

[JR]

Stays in place as this in line pump has a built in check valve! JRR

[usfmarine]

A really helpful update JRR. If only I had a place to mount the cooler on mine.

[JR]

Well I tell ya Marine I was looking for a Bello drawing and part break down! Looks like to me from the pictures one could make a nice opening and put it right under the seat on that panel that comes up under the seat area! Could find some pretty grill mesh and if one put a fan behind it it would pull air through the cooling condensor and blow it right on the engine head , an extra bonus! Lets look at the possibility! There is also the possibilty of cutting out a section of the belly pan and fitting it in. JRR

[harrywr2]

Nov 18, 2009 19:55:35 GMT -5 JR said:

Well I tell ya Marine I was looking for a Bello drawing and part break down! Looks like to me from the pictures one could make a nice opening and put it right under the seat on that panel that comes up under the seat area!

Pretty tight there JR...I'm surprised the valve cover doesn't rub against the grill in front of my seat on my classic.

There should be some room in the front fairing for maybe an 8x8 radiator...just can't remember if there are suitable mount points.

[JR]

Ok was wondering how close the valve cover came to the plastic there and I was hoping for say 4" because even with a fan that would be enough, dang it that rules that out!

Yea I was looking at the front fairing also and with some good fabrication one could build a nice grill to mount on there for the air to move through, nice stainless steel screws to be used to make and mount brackets for holding the cooling condensor. they are light since they are made of aluminum but weigh more when oil is circulating of course! Gonna figure it out Marine! JRR

[usfmarine]

Ya, I had a bunch of ebay transmission coolers picked out, any of which would do a very good job using your formula here. I did not want to hide this oil cooler, but post it in a location where the ambient air could blow past it. My only idea, was where my airbox used to be above my CVT. But then I am running hot as hell oil lines all over the place to them to and from the cooler. Under the front plastics wouldn't work because it's very tight in there with my air horns. I guess under the gas tank under my feet could work. But i'd have to cut plastics from the belly and then again, I have bouncy oil lines danger close to the valve cover. I think I am going to be in the planning stage of this oil cooler installation for a lot longer.

I appreciate the help though JRR.

[JR]

Hey gonna figure it out, got any pics of the belly pan area? Remember we can pull air with fans very easy! These little computer fans don't pull squat as voltage but really do a good job pulling air through a cooler and as I said I found the neatest cooling condensor at a auto salvage yard, just like it was calling, get me off this car, I belong on a scooter!! LOL Would kill for a detailed drawing of the bello! JRR

[JR]

Hey no bouncy on the oil ,lines as they are easy to secure and if we do use hose like the 1/4' hydraulic line hose they do not get very hot as they are double wall therefore insulated somewhat! JRR

[usfmarine]

Ahh, that's good to know. Thank you.

[indy50]

Nov 18, 2009 21:14:54 GMT -5 usfmarine said:

Ya, I had a bunch of ebay transmission coolers picked out, any of which would do a very good job using your formula here. I did not want to hide this oil cooler, but post it in a location where the ambient air could blow past it. My only idea, was where my airbox used to be above my CVT. But then I am running hot as hell oil lines all over the place to them to and from the cooler. Under the front plastics wouldn't work because it's very tight in there with my air horns. I guess under the gas tank under my feet could work. But i'd have to cut plastics from the belly and then again, I have bouncy oil lines danger close to the valve cover. I think I am going to be in the planning stage of this oil cooler installation for a lot longer.

I appreciate the help though JRR.

IMO a fin cooler has to get direct air flow
Sideways mount aint gonna do squat & you'd be wastin your time settin it up like that

[JR]

Hey totally agree Indy but after looking at a Fly was wondering if we might be able to squeeze it in here?



I don't have a breakdown drawing of this scooter but Marine can help me I'm sure! Is the battery box in this area like right here in this picture with the arrow pointing at it?



In this stripped scooter I can see some room right above the engine and under the seat and again if the battery box is not there then the right size cooling condenser would fit in here and then one would need to cut out the plastic in front to open it up! With a good fan one could also pull in outside air and discharge it right on the engine itself another cooling plus!! JRR

[gtbike]

JRR and Marine,

I really like this idea on so many levels and keep looking for a good place for one on mine too.

For the il Bello what about behind the front fairing where your horn is (was)? An extra couple of leuvers cut into it and air flow would be right up front. Put it on a little bracket and run the oil lines where the electrical ones go to the drain plug area?

For mine I have that area as well with a decent sized spot potentially available. I'd like to get one done before spring hits. Heck it's in the 70's again today.

Indy50 air flow is critical but the extra oil and the heat dissipating cooler and manufactured airflow with 1-2 computer fans would really do decently even back where the old air box was. Even a deep sump on a VW has been shown to lower oil temps even though it's right there in the same place and even closer to the asphalt which in summer can be brutally hot.

[Florida Chameleon]

I seriously like this idea... I'm looking at putting my scoot to work 25 miles each way for school... And around here, people like to do 55-60+ on the non-highway most of my trip will probably take place on... I'm wondering if I have enough space to mount the fins behind my front wheel, would it pick up too much dirt from the tire?

[JR]

Nope that's where I have mine!! JRR