Sym Citycom 300i Review + Maintenance

[frost]

Call home Essendon , suburb of Melbourne. Like to be close to cafes etc , love food n coffee , a bit too much..lol.On the plus side only about mmm 15 min away from countryside and open riding roads. Scoot was a second hand , bit of a long story but previous owner (elderly male) had a minor off and his best half put the foot down , the scoot goes. Nothing damaged only a little cosmetic (fairing and mirror) which were replaced. I picket it up probably about $3000 AU off new price and it had 1800 on the clock. Over here they come with a 4 year warranty so looked a great deal especially as my first scoot was wriiten off just before this was available. Step up from the 125 and a bit heavier but a sweet ride for sure. I have a little fairing rattle but will get to isolating it oneday .

[Kiwiscoot]

The fairing is very easy to take off, about 5 mins once you know how. When you get to do it let me know and I could give you "directions". Probably a screw not in place.
Seems like you got a bargain. It will be perfect for what you want. You may find that it is even cheaper to run than your 125. May not be as nimble to get thro the traffic tho.
You will have pretty much the same weather as us in winter. Summer is on it's way, so I'm looking forward to some long trips.
Well have fun.

[argirhs]

kiwiscoot about the water temperature,i realise that even if it works hot it goes down when you accelerate like no thermostat,but i know that the thermostat is ok,so i think that for you because you drive on cold weather its good to think of applying the old fasion way,the closing with plastic cover of the radiator ventillation port just behide the front wheel,of cource you can open some holes to adjust the temperature,a black color plastic from those women put on the tambles it would be perfect i think, recently i saw something like that on a BMW 3 series

[Kiwiscoot]

yes I have given it some thought. I thought some of the aluminium mesh that the they use on the front of cars would be good to restrict the air flow a bit. But I would like something that I can take off easily when it turns into a warm day. Must be plastic, clip on and easy to put under the seat. Even this morning the temp needle just moved from cold by the time I got to work. It just does not feel right. I think these scoots has been designed to be sold around the world for city riding, therefor they have a very big radiator. This is a bit of an overkill here where it is cooler.
Do you mean a table place mat??
hope you are over the sore throat and enjoying that Citycom.

[argirhs]

yes iam ok thanks,the bad weather conditions are out of our door tho,i took a 50 klm trip and it was very nice,that bike is something,i can not understand whats going on too with this theme,the same thing is with german cars too,most the diesel ones,like my opel,only the japan made work the same both winter and summer,all the others is like the thermostats wont close well,because i think no matter the size of the radiator the engine sould work hot if it close properly,except if water temperature sencor indicates the values from a spot that they found is better for the engine,i have to take a look if the cylinder head is hot enough when the values to the indicator(temperature)are low,about airflow i think not a "bit",i think you must close it 90%or 100%,close 90%,or after the first ride open some holes one or two at first,yes that table place mat that you eat on, i think we mean the same, i thougt of something just now,that things that they put on the car windows for the sun which have a mechanism so they can open and close,i think small ones of that excist,but you have to make holes,so its bad idea,anyway i think if it is something plastic and fixed it will be okey with some holes,i will try it on mine too,and tell you

[Kiwiscoot]

Well I think you have a good idea. I took black builders tape ( a thick plastic sticky tape 50mm wide) and taped up all of the top of the radiator, except for the bottom 3. That is between 70% and 80% of it. I started from the top and went horizontal with the taping. Now if it is to much I can just remove the bottom strip, which will expose about 1.5 rows more. The tape is not very visible with it covering the top of the radiator and it being black.
I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.

[argirhs]

as soon as it will get warm the tape will go away my friend(if you put it on the radiator possibly will dry and you will have problem taking it of after),or the tape will not hold to the position,i think you will not be able to avoid the plastic mat for the table,also i thought of something else,closing the air outlet,i think its under the bike,that plastic cover has a wide hole and you can put there even a tamber that can close or open an amount

[Kiwiscoot]

I would be careful closing the back air outlet of the radiator as it cools the exhaust where it exits the engine , but I see your logic. One would be able to close off the left side or a bit on both sides to still allow air down the middle to cool the exhaust.
Well the first trial this morning, scoot was up to the first 2 marks on the temp gauge after about 2 kms. When I stopped at work it was 3rd mark and our morning temp was just below 10 degC. Normally the scoot doesn't even heat up to the first mark for the whole trip. I too noticed that the idling was down where it should be. Normally when I stop at work the idling is around 2000 rpm as the scoot still thinks it is cold. I will keep on running it like this and experiment. Only thing is our temperatures are rising here. You may need to do some experimenting with your colder temperatures.
Apparently the Suzuki 400 scooters take a long time to heat up too. Some owners do a modification (add resistor) in the temperature feedback circuit of the ECU. I don't think that is wise as the engine is still cold. Tuning the cooling is a better approach to me. Adjustable cooling would be the way to go.
Anyway have fun. Bye for now.

[argirhs]

hi,friend,i think you have to close completle all of the radiator "face",if the tape is ok make one small hole at first(after you can open it more)12 o'clock,so when the fun starts the air goes directly to the hot side of the radiator the upper side,,also i dont know if you realise something,if you let the engine in idle for some minutes before you go,it warms up better after,do you know were the temperature sencor locates?

[Kiwiscoot]

Do you have a service manual. I share it here www.4shared.com/account/dir/15412986/3c778837/sharing.html you are welcome to download it.
The temperature sensor sits on top of the engine next to the thermostat.

The thermostat is in the middle of the photo on top of the engine. The sensor to the left is the temperature gauge sensor and the one to the left is for the ECU. As you can see the thermostat has a little by-pass pipe. I think too much water flows past the thermostat via the little pipe.
Well so far with only the bottom 3 slots of the radiator covered the scoot is at temperature when I get to work, when I went out for lunch and when I went home (15 degC). It seems like there is enough cooling for our current weather conditions. I think maybe opening the fourth slot may be where it would be fine for city stop start riding, that will be about 65% of the radiator covered. 6 degC this morning. I am watching the temperature gauge like a hawk as I don't want the scoot to over heat.
I did let the scoot heat up (idle of 10 minutes) in the winter, but my fuel consumption went up. In the end I decided to just ride it. Covering the radiator or restricting the radiator outlet air is the way to go I think.
Have fun - untill next time... ;D ;D

[argirhs]

i think that we have to see why they put the by-pass pipe because maybe thats the problem of the rapid fall of the water temperature ,if it is for safety resons it has to be closed,except if it plays the role of a relief way for the thermostat to operate better,will see

[Kiwiscoot]

Oct 14, 2009 15:15:45 GMT -5 argirhs said:

i think that we have to see why they put the by-pass pipe because maybe thats the problem of the rapid fall of the water temperature ,if it is for safety reasons it has to be closed,except if it plays the role of a relief way for the thermostat to operate better,will see

I think it saves the engine from overheating if the thermostat should stick and stay close. I don't think these engines generate a lot of heat and the ceramic coating inside the engine probably does not absorb as much heat as a conventional engine. The thermostat has a small hole in it too, probably about 3mm.
The builder's tape (thick plastic like insulation tape) is still holding up well and is not difficult to get off, so it will stay for a while.

[argirhs]

anything ceramic is a good thermotank,it can take a lot ammount of heat without contraction

[argirhs]

hi,friends,i was thinkink today after a ride i took with my scoot about the break in of the motor,finally i see that i must have done a good job,because the 120klm/hour are coming very easy even if i climb,allthow i now have 1200klm on the odometer,almost 750 miles,i think that the motoman is right,also a strange noice came out of the rear turned to be from the suspension spring as i put in in the soft "mode",i think i have to undo

[Kiwiscoot]

Good sound like you are getting there as far as the break-in goes.
I run mine on the softest setting with no problems. I'm 90 kgs. When you go thru a pot-hole the suspension can make a "clunk" noise, but it needs to be a bad hole!
I am running mine now with the four bottom slots of the radiator uncovered and it seems to heat up better and it does not get hot in the traffic, even with a 17 degC day. I've done a 75 km run to a country town and back and it was fine too, even at 130 kph on the speedo which was wide open throttle @ 8000 rpm with slight head wind.

[argirhs]

no,no that "clunk"noice,when the motor is on idle and when i start accelerate,its something like the noice of an old watch when you turn the roller to load the spring,when i catch the spring it stops,it seems like its loose when its on the soft mode,nice with your radiator,now your scooter works as it sound be,i wonder what these people could answer to us if we asked them about when a bike sould "go out"?only above 20 degrees celcious?

[argirhs]

today i also repair the radiator "issue",i closed the radiator "face"with that table place mat,in my case is a miky-mouse one,its 2mm thik,i cut from this plastik 3 strips,the lenght of the strips is 23cm each,the width for the center one of the radiator is 6,5cm,and the other(for the edges) 2 strips are 4,5cm,in the center strip to the bottom of it for 2cm of lenght is winder about 2cm in order not to be able to come out easy,it was an easy job took my 1/2 hour,and the strips go easy in with a pen just to help them go under the plastik covers of the radiator,its nice also, mine is something like yellow,tomorrow first god i will test it,so till tomorrow

[argirhs]

everything ok with the water temperature,tested in the city out and going up on the hills,today it was 17 celcious

[Kiwiscoot]

Somehow my reply of yesterday was not posted. So here goes again.
I think you are talking of a computer "mouse pad". I think that is an excellent thing to use. I have an old one I am going to use too. Today was a warm 17 degC and I had to go into the city center to the scooter shop(another story). The scoot ran fine and did not get hot ( only up to the second long bar from cold) in the stop-start traffic at all. I see too that the scoot warms up quicker by the idle that is at 1500 - 1700 rpm at traffic lights. It will be interesting to see if it makes a difference in the fuel consumption. My last fuel fill-up did give a small improvement, but is was less than 100 km of riding with the radiator closed. I believe the Suzuki scooters have the same thing that they take ages to heat up, which cause them to stay on auto-choke for a long time. This cause their fuel consumption to suffer.
The reason that I went to the scooter shop is that I am disappointed with the Givi screen. It started to split from the bottom, between two of the mounting holes. I don't understand as the screen is rubber mounted and has bushes around the mounting screws to stop any stress. The screen does flex a bit in the wind and with vibration from the road, but it doesn't explain why it split. They will talk to Givi as it is only about 6 months old.
Well all for now. Enjoy your SYM

[argirhs]

hi friend i think that the problem with the screen is not the vibration or the mounting(thats good)but is the air force that reacts to the mounting,so that screen has a speed limit they never told you about or is weak and unable to "win"the force that the air resistans produce,about the mouse pad yes but mine is bigger and i stole it from my small doughter(she use to eat her food on staff like that),and it was the one with the miky maous figure on,it works well and wont come out,allthow it would be better if i put an ammount of silicone just in case

[argirhs]

also can you please tell me when this vantilator starts on?on which line of the temperature indicator?

[Kiwiscoot]

The temperature that the fan comes on I don't know. I once tried and had the scoot idle for more than half a hour when it was new. The temperature went up to about half way, sat there for a while and then shot all the way up to just under red, which alarmed me. Before I could switch it off it shot down to just above halfway again. At that point I was not game to try anything more. From memory I think the owner's manual advise against letting it idle for a long time. I have never felt or heard the fan come on.
Do you think it is a good think to silicone those thing in. If you have a very hot day and you notice the scoot's temperature is getting very high you may want to remove one or two and will not be able too.

[argirhs]

finally from what i saw today,the solution is to close that by-pass tube and see what is going on,if really that is a by-pass for the thermostat thats wrong(even for greece),also today i saw that the ventilator goes on at the 4th line in the middle of the temperature indicator(i let it idle),and it works i think less than a minute before the temperature goes down even a milimiter,i think in that area are the 90 degrees celcious,and this must have the meaning that the 3rd line that the scoot works more of the time is low too,i think that does not make any sence,but i have seen this phenomenon before,with my sh!ty opel astra diesel that stupid car,the worst car of all the times

[argirhs]

about the silicone i think if its few you can take it out easy,of course its no need it wont go away i tryed it,also by using the key of the engine you can take out them easy,for you driving at winder i dont think you will ever need to get them out,also the strips on the edges can be 5cm(i think ,mine are 4,5cm),you said something about not let it work to much idle,that must be right,i saw that today,i also can not understand why on the HD200 you can see the ventilator works and here no

[Kiwiscoot]

Oct 21, 2009 15:17:25 GMT -5 argirhs said:

finally from what i saw today,the solution is to close that by-pass tube and see what is going on,if really that is a by-pass for the thermostat thats wrong(even for greece)

If you look on page 12-5 of the service manual you'll notice they call it a by-pass pipe. I think it's function is to give a minimum of flow to stop hot spots in the engine with the thermostat closed. I would be nervous to close it off as one could cause serious damage if a part of the engine has localized overheating with a closed thermostat. I think closing the radiator is the way to go. I think for me : Winter setting = 3 bottom slots open. Spring/autumn(like now) = 4 slots open and summer = ??(haven't had a summer yet). I'll have to see. I too need to play in the mountains to see how it goes there. Easy enough to keep an eye on the gauge and stop and open another slot. Porters Pass at 930m (3000ft) high, 700m climb in about 2-3km at 60kph WOT in summer will be a very good test.
On another note. I took the Givi screen off yesterday. I may just for the fun of it see what the top speed of the Citycom is without a screen. ;D ;D I'll fit the factory screen again and wait to see what the outcome will be about the Givi screen. the factory screen is of thicker material than the Givi screen.

[argirhs]

that sould be thick too so it can retain the "air force",about the by-pass this is what i thought too,because the thermostat is to close to the cylinder the water is to few and can boil faster than if it was on the radiator with more water inside the tube betwen the cylinder and radiator,i think at summer you need all of the radiator surfase,we will see

[frost]

Hi All, thanks Kiwi for the help offer. It seems there may have been some shortcuts in the repair of the minor off the previous owner had. I will pull it down a bit to investigate but I am a bit worried about the seal at the base of the windscreen. One of those "easy to pull out , impossible to put back ". I fear at worse case senario that a replacement handle cover might be necessary. On the positive the weather is on the way up over here and mid 20'sC great for riding.
And yes, the different in running cost to my 125 is negligable. In fact when the Citycom gets to 5000ish Kms, it maybe better as the 125 was WOT up most significant hills. Rdie safely dudes.

[Kiwiscoot]

Oct 23, 2009 4:51:52 GMT -5 frost said:

Hi All, thanks Kiwi for the help offer. It seems there may have been some shortcuts in the repair of the minor off the previous owner had. I will pull it down a bit to investigate but I am a bit worried about the seal at the base of the windscreen. One of those "easy to pull out , impossible to put back ". I fear at worse case senario that a replacement handle cover might be necessary.

Don't worry about that one, it's the easiest. Don't pull it off as it comes off with the black plastic panel under the wind screen. If you turn the steering on full lock & look under the handle you'll notice a hole in the black plastic cover under the handlebars. In there is a screw, remove it and it's mate on the other side. Now straighten the handle bars, stand un front of the scoot and put your hands on the black plastic panel under the screen(one that has the rubber seal on). Push the panel down hard and you should see it slide down towards the bottom front fairing. Pull the bottom out towards you and it should come out. The black panel of the front fairing comes out the same way just up once you've taken the to screws on the top off. When you put it back a liberal coating of silicone spray helps everything to slide in place.
I have had no luck in getting the mirrors off. Instead of having allen cap screws in their stems they have hex bolts. One need a very thin wall socket to unscrew it, which I have had no luck in finding (not that I've had a very serious search).
My scoot had a rattle too under the handle bar covers. On carefull inspection it turned out a screw was missing.
Good luck & enjoy the rides. ;D

[Kiwiscoot]

Oct 22, 2009 9:02:44 GMT -5 argirhs said:

,i think at summer you need all of the radiator surfase,we will see

Yes I think I may need it too, that is why I'm reluctant to do anything that is too permanent.
Interesting I took the scoot for a blast without the screen to see what the top speed will be. I could only get 120 kph on a run in one direction and 125 on the same streach of road in the opposite direction. A bit of rain, but pefect still conditions. The screen seems to do a lot as far as aerodynamics go. Looks like the factory screen is the most efficient. I will put it back on (while I wait for an answer on the Givi) and do a test again.
enjoy your rides.. ;D

[argirhs]

hi,yes i think the screen dont let the air "hit"on your body and effect on bikes speed,but i never thought it could be so much(almost 20 klms),about the radiator the strips are just ok,the temperature is working ok and you can take it out easy and quick