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Post by lbo on Sept 6, 2008 13:03:41 GMT -5
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Post by thumper650 on Sept 6, 2008 13:13:48 GMT -5
For a 2 stroke, I'd say it might be a problem. I'd send that POS back to the idiot that sold it to you. I love ebay, and that's unacceptable.
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Post by lbo on Sept 6, 2008 13:33:03 GMT -5
For a 2 stroke, I'd say it might be a problem. I'd send that POS back to the idiot that sold it to you. I love ebay, and that's unacceptable. Thankfully, for me at least, it was actually my brother who bought it for his scoot. I told him to get it though, he's not so worried I am more ticked then him. A return won't be easy, he KNEW this woudl be the case and labled it "SOLD AS IS NO RETURNS OR EXCHANGES". My brother is going to ask him "do you want negative feedback or are you going to take it back?" |
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 6, 2008 14:40:00 GMT -5
I know you want the transitions to be smooth, but I wouldn't think it'd make a huge difference. Rallyrrr or motomech will prob have more educated comments on pipe design, so I'll leave that to them. Regardless, I would want an undamaged pipe if possible.
If he paid via PayPal, he can use their resolution center. I got my money back on a used item sold as new that the seller had marked absolutely no returns or refunds under any circumstances so their may be hope. Check out the details on their site.
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Post by rallyrrr on Sept 6, 2008 18:31:18 GMT -5
I would say probably not a very large loss. Maybe 1/2 to up to 1 hp at top end. If it were me though, I couldn't stand it not being perfect. I would try filling it with water to a point 3-4 inches above damage and freezing for about a day. If that doesn't push it out, fill it almost completely full and freeze it again and hope it doesn't split a weld. Know somebody who welds a little?
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Post by lbo on Sept 6, 2008 18:47:00 GMT -5
Huh, so when asking the seller about the bends the reply is;
no those bends are suposed to be there for clearance of the kick stand and engine bolt.Thats the way it comes from factory
? yeah, it's a tight fit with the center stand.... the engine block near the cooling fan is questionable. Not sure if I believe it though. Anyone else with a Leo Vince XZ?
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Post by rallyrrr on Sept 6, 2008 18:57:38 GMT -5
Is that a Leo Vince? At least it's not chromed. Nice looking pipe.
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Post by rallyrrr on Sept 6, 2008 19:14:56 GMT -5
Went back to your initial post and see it is a Leo. IMO seller intentionally deceived you by touching up photo with shadow effect. I think he owes you about $40.00 or you owe him negative feedback. Or as Brent said you may have payment method recourse.
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Post by Karl on Sept 6, 2008 19:20:59 GMT -5
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Post by rallyrrr on Sept 6, 2008 19:52:20 GMT -5
After looking in my tuning book I revise my power loss estimation down drastically. There is a picture in the book of a pipe with what looks to be much worse damage (more dents and very irregular and ugly) and power loss on dyno was only 6%. So power loss would probably be less than half as much as I estimated before.
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Post by thumper650 on Sept 6, 2008 20:21:31 GMT -5
Forget about power loss, I wouldn't put up with buying somebody's garbage. If it was advertised as dented, ok, but it wasn't. If he won't resolve this, feel free to let us know his name so we can at least avoid him/her.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 6, 2008 20:42:33 GMT -5
As long as it was paid via PayPal...
Don't worry about his comments, keep all your emails and such, but don't think he has all the power. Don't try to fix it yet, don't use it. I know it sucks, but leave it alone. If you and the buyer cannot come to an agreement when you file a dispute on PayPal, you escalate the dispute to a claim. At that point, PayPal reviews the claim and makes a decision. I should also add, save a copy of the auction page ASAP so he can't remove any images that are hosted elsewhere etc... You never know what shady stuff a seller will do to walk away with your money.
The dispute/claim process can take a little while, and of course it isn't a gaurantee that PayPal will rule in your favor. If you can't wait, then maybe try the ice method mentioned earlier as long as you can have it welded if necessary or just run it as is and lose a small amount of power.
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Post by earlwb on Sept 6, 2008 21:19:49 GMT -5
That looks like it was on purpose to clear the center or kickstand or frame member. I wouldn't worry about it any.
It won't affect performance. The problem is the length and shape governs at what rpm the engine comes up on pipe.
So you ought to work out the math to determine if your engine can take advantage of it or not.
Having a pipe tuned for say 12,000 rpm might not be very good, it depends on your engine though.
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Post by motomech on Sept 6, 2008 21:26:20 GMT -5
I agree, an almost negligible effect on performance.
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Post by lbo on Sept 7, 2008 6:28:52 GMT -5
Cool, if it won't have a detrimental effect on perfomance then my brother is not going to worry about it. Anything is better then his old pipe and he just wants a little more performance.
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Post by kaintuckdave on Sept 7, 2008 14:35:34 GMT -5
From the second pic, it looks like there's a big crack a couple inches from where the pipe meets the motor. If it's not air tight right there, that's bad.
I've used the paypal resolution center before and it worked to my advantage.
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Post by lbo on Sept 9, 2008 8:21:26 GMT -5
Well the pipe is staying, seems to fit fine and the performance, as long as the RPM's are there, is awesome. He needs a new belt and contra spring (on order) so acceleration is poor even with the lighter rollers.... but once it gets to 30+MPH you need to hold on until it slows around 50 haha. HUGE improvement and honestly I don't know that it would fit around the engine block by the intake fan if it wasn't bent. My brothers happy, I'll be happy when we can get the RPM's consistant through its acceleration curve via the CVT.
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Post by ireland2004 on Sept 16, 2008 10:51:50 GMT -5
To answer all of your questions, that pipe comes from the factory with those bends in it. I installed a brand spanking new Leo Vince ZX pipe, and the bends are there for clearance issues (kickstand, and mounts). On my E-Ton Beamer, the center-stand would whack the pipe every time it was raised if not for the indention. You can tell the bends are from the factory because the pipe has heating marks on it where they heated the pipe before manipulating it for clearance. The clear-coat was applied after the pipe was cooled (likely dipped in cool water & then hung on a rack to dry). If it had actually been a spot due to damage, the clear-coat would have been scraped off, and the pipe would likely be gouged and scratched, not neatly bent with a tool.
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