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Post by amizener on Aug 6, 2008 11:05:15 GMT -5
If she didn't lay down the bike her scar would be a lot smaller. But she'd be dead, and I wouldn't be here. She was in Africa while with the Peace Corps, there was a coup d'état in the country she was in.
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Post by phaze on Aug 6, 2008 21:48:14 GMT -5
the stunters do something i think they call it sketching any way at speed they get off bike and usually hang on to the tail and sketch down the road.
so ive given it some thought and i think you guys should try it and practice.
heres the scenario your cruisin down the street and a car pulls out in front of you, you simply sketch off the back and wait for it to slow down and you simply let go of bike and walk away. this is the only way i could endorse this.
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Post by phaze on Aug 6, 2008 21:53:03 GMT -5
guys you really need to slow down and master it before you ride like duhamell ive been there and done that but someone is watchin over me and im alive, just be careful and i hope your insurance carrier isnt yofault insurance[ you have to pay cause it was yofault] heal quick boys
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Post by dean on Aug 8, 2008 13:35:09 GMT -5
the stunters do something i think they call it sketching any way at speed they get off bike and usually hang on to the tail and sketch down the road. so ive given it some thought and i think you guys should try it and practice. heres the scenario your cruisin down the street and a car pulls out in front of you, you simply sketch off the back and wait for it to slow down and you simply let go of bike and walk away. this is the only way i could endorse this. That's why I always where my Sketchers. But I like sketching on the side -- its real easy with the scooter's open frame. If I see danger I just let go of the bike and roll away.
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Post by booradley on Aug 20, 2008 22:31:34 GMT -5
All I'm going to recommend is this: remember to hit the kill switch when you feel yourself going down. The argument here can go both ways. Like seat belts. Most of the car accidents people are in, if they are wearing their seat belt, they are better protected. But a minority--and perhaps not as tiny a minority as some would assume--suffered more physical damage during the crash than they would have if they hadn't been wearing one. Anyways, I'm not arguing. Just remember to hit the kill switch, babe.
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Post by owenbrau on Aug 22, 2008 11:02:05 GMT -5
Even getting shot at, I can't help but think that dumping it is worse- if nothing else, you are now a stationary target. You will be able to stop much faster than you or the scoot will sliding along the ground. "Sketching" has the same problem. Do you seriously think your feet dragging on the ground are going to stop you quicker than the brakes?
Many years ago, I did an involuntary lay-down on my bike at about 45mph (blew the rear tire in a curve). Now at 45, I could have braked to a stop in less than 80 feet. The bike came to a stop more than 200 feet down the road, and I stopped about 250 feet down, and that was after both it and I sideswiped an oncoming car.
Once you drop the bike, you have lost whatever measure of control you had over the situation. Like not wearing a seltbelt, there may events where it actually is better, but the odds say wear the belt and keep the rubber on the road.
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Post by pukame2 on Aug 25, 2008 0:35:06 GMT -5
I've laid down my bike many times when dirt bike riding.
Only 2 other times was the situation hairy and potentially dangerous.
Once was during a raining nite at a stop light under a stopped car and the other time when I hit an oil slick in broad daylight and had to choose a laydown or guardrail. Came away with a few bruises and a lot of road rash, nothing serious.
Today, no riding on rainy days and only on familiar roads.
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Post by boboclown on Aug 26, 2008 7:57:52 GMT -5
I've T-boned a car when the driver ran a stop sign, I was on a road with speed limit of 45mph, traveling down hill. My instinct was to brake hard, but also to avoid instant stop when I T-bone the car. Right before the impact, I tuen my scooter sideways so it slid along the side of the car, caused dmage to the car from the driver's side door to the end of the driver's side car.. once I ran out of car to lean against, scooter and I fell over. I came out of it with bent and broken handlebar when the scooter landed on the ground, broken sun glasses, minor buises, and muscle aches.. I think I caused about $2000 damage to the car.. when the police showed up, officer gave the woman a citation for running a stop sign. I got paid from her insurance company for the scooter damage, broken sun glasses, my old stinky $500 Arai full face helmet, scooter towing service back to my house and time off from work.
sh!t happends but how you react to it can make a difference in the outcome. Understand the physics and always look for a way out of instant stop.
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Post by Dennis D on Aug 26, 2008 20:20:13 GMT -5
Anyone who says that they layed their bike down to avoid a bigger crash, is just admitting to their lack of knowledge and skills of accident avoidance techniques.... both before and after the accident becomes inevitable.
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Post by dean on Aug 26, 2008 22:52:47 GMT -5
Its funny when people say they layed the bike down to avoid an accident. To me the accident begins when you decide to lay it down.
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Post by Aerostudent on Aug 27, 2008 0:51:55 GMT -5
There is a saying I heard from one of the instructors at my MSF course. He said "remember, laying down to bike to avoid an accident is an oxymoron, usually said by another kind of moron."
These are not my words, but his, and I agree with them wholeheartedly. Now in the case of gunfire, that is probably still up for debate, but I don't think that is too common of an everyday riding issue.
Aero
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Post by pukame2 on Aug 27, 2008 2:29:25 GMT -5
Sometimes one has no choice in the situation. Most of the time, a laydown can be a controlled method to avoid a bigger situation. Some people can't help it and some can. Been riding for over 50+ so I must be doing something wrong. ;D
Well, somebody above disagrees with my statement and would rather smite me. Sorry but I've been doing controlled slides for a while and would rather keep my bike than myself before an object. I was a little reckless back then, time has healed and common sense rebounded. I still will do the same today if the situation ever came up., and I'm no rocket scientist.
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Post by Dennis D on Aug 27, 2008 21:02:34 GMT -5
I fully agree about "sort of" controlled slides on dirt. No harm, no fould and keeoping the rubber on the dirt often won't stop you as fast as digging a footpeg and handlebar grip into the dirt. But just like the fastest way around the corners in dirt is sideways on a dirt track.... not so on pavement, and I'm talking four wheels. You give up more control, and even more quickly when you start sliding on pavement with a two wheeler.
At best it's a last ditch effort to alter the outcome of an accident you already decided you can't avoid. At worst it's a decision to have an accident when you think you MIGHT be headed for one. Most of the time though, it's the result of a mistake, not a decison.
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Post by scosgt on Sept 4, 2008 20:33:37 GMT -5
Back around 1969 I lived in Akron Ohio. There was a motorcycle cop, Glenn Stewart (you can probably Google this and find something, it was Akron PD) who was chasing a speeder with his partner. This was not a pursuit, they felt the speeder probably did not even know they were behind him. Anyway, a car made a left turn right in front of them (sound familiar yet?). Larry, the partner, laid the bike down and walked away. Glenn Stewart T-Boned the car, fatal outcome. They were riding side by side at the time.
I am newbie, don't know much, but I was friendly with both these guys and heard the story first hand. So maybe there are times you have to lay down the bike. Of course, they were driving at high speed and acceleration, with lights and sirens, on big Hogs, so probably there are factors there that most of us would never be likely to face.
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Post by Dennis D on Sept 4, 2008 20:56:44 GMT -5
Those tractors didn't really have brakes back then.... that's where the "laying it down to avoid an accident" concept came from. In the 60's and back before that, there was real merit to the idea of laying a bike down to stop quicker. Foot pegs, handlebars, and engine cases grinding into the pavement was often quicker than relying on brakes to do the job.
Many 60's motorcycles, although they had brakes that could stop you eventually, if it looked like it might be a close call.... your best bet was often to either bail or lay it down.
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Post by nickiemcnichols on Dec 27, 2008 21:31:30 GMT -5
Laying any 2 wheeler down isn't an option for me. I look for another way our if necessary. Nurses do not get to wear jeans to work, we wear scrubs, which are very thin.
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Post by brian8474 on Mar 5, 2009 17:20:25 GMT -5
You have 3 things you can do in any situation. Accelerate, brake, and maneuver. As long as you are on the scooter you are in control. Laying the scoot down should never be an option. You give up all other options and are not in control of anything. I agree.Short words,But words to live by.
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Post by owenbrau on Mar 6, 2009 18:33:15 GMT -5
Laying any 2 wheeler down isn't an option for me. I look for another way our if necessary. Nurses do not get to wear jeans to work, we wear scrubs, which are very thin. How about a pair of riding pants that goes over the scrubs? I plan on getting a mesh pant (to go with mesh jacket) so I can ride places then have shorts and sandals on while I'm there. But never lay it down. Coming up with scenarios where it is a viable option is kind of like arguing about the one in a million where not wearing your seatbelt is helpful. Odds are, you'll never be there, so don't plan on doing it.
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Post by garyr on Mar 7, 2009 19:11:26 GMT -5
Leather has a negative coefficient of gription. I mean to say it doesn't wear away as fast as does vinyl, denim, or skin. While some riders prefer vented material with armor and may be forced to wear it by their local temperatures, I wear a leather jacket. I recently bought a pair of kevlar reinforced pants from Diamond Gusset Jeans that I am looking forward to wearing this riding season. I totally agree with Aero on not laying it down. I would rather bounce off a car than take a chance of being pinned under the scooter while jammed under a car/pickup. Only scooter fatality this last year here was a 54 yr old rider who went down and under a car. I don't know what he was wearing for protective clothing. His bike was somewhat under the car also. Garyr
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Post by spacecowboy on Mar 22, 2009 22:38:44 GMT -5
Laying any 2 wheeler down isn't an option for me. I look for another way our if necessary. Nurses do not get to wear jeans to work, we wear scrubs, which are very thin. Get some chaps and some armor to go over your scrubs.
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Post by skootz on Mar 25, 2009 15:38:10 GMT -5
There are very few reasons I could come up with to deliberately have to "lay it down". (anymore than opening the car door and jumping out to avoid a crash) An approaching cliff or a wall of fire... Locking up, skidding and losing control when it's needed the most is something we can avoid by just practicing good evaluative habits and good braking procedures. (and evasive maneuvers) Check this video for braking www.monkeysee.com/play/10156-how-to-brake-on-a-motorcycleyoutube also has some video's on evasive manuevers which I have found helpful.
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Post by Aerostudent on Mar 26, 2009 18:40:29 GMT -5
An approaching cliff or a wall of fire... ...at 45, I could have braked to a stop in less than 80 feet. The bike came to a stop more than 200 feet down the road, and I stopped about 250 feet down, and that was after both it and I sideswiped an oncoming car. Stop before the cliff, or you and your bike are flying a good deal over it. Same for a wall of fire... That is, unless you could find some stationary object to run into that would stop you even faster. Again, there are variables, but if you lay the bike down, you loose ALL controll, all performance, all turning and stopping abilities, and are now at the mercies of kinetic energy and the pavement. Aero
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Post by owenbrau on Mar 27, 2009 7:33:07 GMT -5
Aero, that's what I said.
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Post by Aerostudent on Mar 31, 2009 16:11:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I know that's what you were saying owenbrau, the responce was more directed at skootz, but mostly at someone reading it and missinterpreting it as "oh, so it's good to lay it down in some instances!" just wanted to point it out that it's pretty well agreed that if your bike/scoot has BRAKES, that it's not a good idea to lay it down thinking it will stop faster, because infact it will take 2-3 times longer to stop, and you can't stear either.
Aero
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Post by owenbrau on Mar 31, 2009 19:24:47 GMT -5
Ok, I was just trying to say that while there may in fact be that one-in-a-million chance that it actually is a good idea, in the real world it pretty much never is a good idea to lay it down deliberately, just as you did. And as you, I, and others have pointed out, in every single hypothetical reason posited you would still be better off keeping it upright and under control. I suppose there just might be a situation where it would work, but like the seat belt conundrum, I can't actually think of one (and the vast majority of anecdotes about not wearing a seat belt saving someone's life are in fact not true anyway).
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Post by russ69 on Apr 15, 2009 13:35:47 GMT -5
This is an old thread but when ever I hear someone say; "I laid it down" my brain hears; "I used too much rear brake (probably only used the rear brake) and the next thing I remember was sliding." Sorry but that's how I see it.
Thanx, Russ
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Post by center5150 on Jun 4, 2010 20:48:23 GMT -5
well i have a 50cc... so ive actually kinda jumped off the scoot running before without ever hitting the ground... it was probably some luck involved with that.... ive laid dirt bikes down before for various reason and i always tried to just get me leg around and sit on the side of the bike... that be allot easier on a scoot. honestly though your out on the asphalt your going to go down at somepoint, you ride long enough you will wreck and its going to hurt, wheter you in shorts and a t shirt or full leathers, the ground hurts. accept it as a part of the ride... chicks dig scars right
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Post by bennnn on Oct 4, 2010 23:11:25 GMT -5
If she didn't lay down the bike her scar would be a lot smaller. ahhh, but would the little wound have had the time to turn into a scar...? I love this thread, you guys have really helped me put the proper thoughts in my mind. I am a big fan of mental training through thinking about things constantly, and having the information and being able to draw on your experiances is worth a lot to me. Thank you to those who have been there and posted that.
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Post by unorthodoxneon on Oct 5, 2010 10:01:43 GMT -5
For those who havent seen it yet... Sometimes crashing a scooter might not be so bad. IF your a football player!
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Post by farkdanarc on Apr 15, 2011 14:28:41 GMT -5
i rode my yamaha fz6 into a ditch, the bounces knocked me out, but i woke up with only a sprained ankle.....much better then running into the other vehicle that pulled out in front of me. i literally had the chioce of hitting, dumping, or grassy ditch.
i have no regrets. and the damage to the bike wasnt....that bad.....lol.
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