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Post by ampmopeds on Jul 16, 2008 13:24:06 GMT -5
happen while making a left hand turn!
Be safe out there guys especially with all the idiots that dont pay attention to us bikers.
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Post by dhawk on Jul 16, 2008 13:50:12 GMT -5
I figured it was when cagers make a left hand turn in front of you! Where did you get this statistic?
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Post by earlwb on Jul 16, 2008 14:43:52 GMT -5
nowdays the roads almost all have left turn lanes making it much safer than in the years past.
I remember making only right hand turns a lot in the past as a left turn in the left lane was akin to committing suicide.
On those roads without a left turn lane, ride down someplace safe and turn around and then tool on back and make a right turn into where you are going.
doing all right turns works pretty well actually. it might require some extra thinking, but even in a car it works.
Lately FED EX or UPS has been requiring all their drivers to make right turns only, and it saves them gasoline too.
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Post by dean on Jul 16, 2008 15:09:56 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe. According to NHSTA 45% of all fatalities are single vehicle crashes (according to HURT, 25%).
The 3 biggest causes of all accidents: speed, inattentiveness, alcohol
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Post by earlwb on Jul 16, 2008 15:56:22 GMT -5
The state of Texas requires all motorcyclists under the age of 20 to wear a helmet, as well as anyone who hasn't completed a motorcycle training course and gets the required insurance coverage. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reported that per miles traveled, a motorcyclist is 37 times more likely to die in a crash than a car driver. In 2008, 4,810 motorcyclists died and more than 88,000 were injured in accidents. The administration also reports that a helmet reduces the fatality rate in a crash by almost 40 percent.
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Post by isawhim on Jul 16, 2008 16:10:34 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe. According to NHSTA 45% of all fatalities are single vehicle crashes (according to HURT, 25%). The 3 biggest causes of all accidents: speed, inattentiveness, alcohol You have to remember... most motorcycles are large, overpowered, and crashed by "People who borrowed them", not by the owners... The biggest problem I have with statistics, is that they are all incomplete... like a survey... "Of the people who take surveys, 3/4 choose product X over others." (What "Others" were presented? The cheapest, the ugliest, the worst tasting?) Incomplete... What about people who don't take surveys, what is their choice? (Look at sales.) Same with the stats from highway safety... "Of the accidents that were reported..." Who reports accidents? People seriously injured, vehicles that are stolen, or riders that died and someone needs to collect. Who does not report accidents? - Thieves who stole bikes. "I swear officer, I did this falling down the stairs!" - People who crash, without injury or damage that they can't repair themselves. - People without insurance... (Why make a claim if you are not going to get anything?) - People who hit a scooter/motorcycle, and drove off... (If there is no proof, the accident is a "Single person accident". They assume that you hit someone, and drove off... unless you can prove that the other person drove off. EG, you hit a parked car, and no-one saw the accident.) - Unregistered vehicles in an accident... They drive-off, and ditch the bike. Only the fatality accidents are obviously recorded. Thus... incomplete... It is no surprise that "Drunks", driving "Other peoples vehicles", driving "Over powered vehicles", driving "In inclement weather", are the majority of the accidents. While they are luckily alone... at night... showing off... pushing the limits... out of control... while having poor judgement... (You don't do that often while others are around, on your own bike, sober, on a good weather day, on a light bike rated for driving and not racing.) Statistics as a whole, are useless in any event... unless the result is equal across all levels of variation. You need to look at... Statistics in your area, for your specific class of vehicle, with your circumstances taken into consideration... EG, I don't drink and drive... (Remove all the drunk accidents.) Now what do the stats say? EG, I wear a helmet... (Remove all the non-helmet accidents.) Now what do the stats say? EG, I don't borrow other peoples bikes... (Remove all accidents that happened on "Other peoples bikes".) Now what do the stats say? EG, I don't drive at night, in inclement weather... (Remove all accidents related to inclement weather, at night.) Now what do the stats say? EG, I do not drive an over powered or under powered vehicle... (Remove all bikes that are more powerful than yours, and those that are under you power, or under powered.) Now what do the stats say? Sure, it is not a real answer... but neither were the stats that were presented in the first place. (Though, I am sure that would lead to a more realistic "Crash-rate" for you.) Accidents are not on the rise... "Reported accidents" are on the rise... (More people are getting insurance, and are reporting a larger number of accidents, since they "Think", or are "Told", that they can sue-someone, and get something for it.) There are also more, "New" riders... thus, more "New mistakes". Like allowing people to borrow your vehicle... driving lightly drunk with the new lower alcohol limits... crashing from "Leaning the bike" but not "Leaning themselves into turns"... naively thinking that a motorcycle or scooter has the same "Sticky traction" as a car, on a dew-drenched night-air turn... Not realizing that something as simple as "Sand", or "Pine needles", or "Leaves", or "Water", can wipe them out on a simple low-speed turn... Etc... |
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Post by mortar235 on Jul 16, 2008 16:43:11 GMT -5
Did you know that 76% of all statistics are just randomly selected numbers?
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Post by anniesocial on Jul 16, 2008 16:48:40 GMT -5
I heard a while back that 75% of all accidents occur within 2 miles of home. Damn, I need to move!
Annie
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Post by Aerostudent on Jul 16, 2008 18:14:51 GMT -5
^^^ hehehehe!!! ;D ;D Nice... Annie, you get a bone for that!
Mortar, I thought it was that 42% of all statistics were made up on the spot ;D
Aero
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Post by dean on Jul 17, 2008 12:35:48 GMT -5
Given that all fatalties are repoted and non-fatal accidents are under reported, the percentage of fatal accidents wil be ipso facto smaller than reported.
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Post by buddymom on Jul 17, 2008 13:11:12 GMT -5
ok, good one isawhim, hit it right on the head. now annie......i just don't know, but that was really good.
remember everything is based on perception. however that person wants to perceive or make it perceived it will be perceived unless someone like isawhim comes along and blows them out of the water.
t
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Post by dean on Jul 17, 2008 19:21:40 GMT -5
remember everything is based on perception. Does that also include the statement that everything is based on perception? |
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Post by buddymom on Jul 17, 2008 20:35:16 GMT -5
ok thanks dean:
haha i get it. guess i was just on a roll today.
t
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Post by gusset on Jul 18, 2008 12:00:07 GMT -5
You have to remember... most motorcycles are large, overpowered, and crashed by "People who borrowed them", not by the owners... The biggest problem I have with statistics, is that they are all incomplete... like a survey... "Of the accidents that were reported..." Who reports accidents? People seriously injured, vehicles that are stolen, or riders that died and someone needs to collect. ... Statistics as a whole, are useless in any event... unless the result is equal across all levels of variation. I'm afraid I don't fully understand your point about statistics, isawhim. Accepting for the moment that the broad brush you're painting with is fully accurate, I have to ask: Do you simply dismiss any set of statistics because it is likely incomplete? Any researcher worth their salt is aware that their study is often based on incomplete data, and will take that into consideration when the data is interpreted or when conclusions are drawn. The important concept to keep in mind is that data needs to be interpreted by anyone reading it, be they a PhD or a normal, everyday person on a scooter forum. As a brief and (hopefully) familiar example, the Hurt report "only" closely examined 900 accidents, which did not include un-reported incidents. However, despite that, I found that the summary presented one of the most convincing arguments regarding certain aspects of riding. It's entirely possible that without reading it, I would not have decided to buy my scooter. You're correct on this: stats generally won't tell me what's likely to happen according to my specific riding habits and environment. However they certainly give me a good idea of what causation factors I want to keep in mind as I approach riding. That's quite valuable. Maybe I missed your point, but it sounded like you are broadly declaring general statistical data gathering, at least with regards to riding, to be useless simply because data is not fully available. If this is the case, I have to disagree. |
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Post by mortar235 on Jul 18, 2008 16:51:27 GMT -5
^^^ hehehehe!!! ;D ;D Nice... Annie, you get a bone for that! Mortar, I thought it was that 42% of all statistics were made up on the spot ;D Aero no no no, see 55% of explanations of statistics being made up are just made up ;D |
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Post by Aerostudent on Jul 20, 2008 18:58:35 GMT -5
Bone^
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Post by gfrphoto on Jul 28, 2008 12:23:19 GMT -5
Most or many survey's and statistics have a margin of error - Sometimes this is averaged out and added to the final statical data or its often at the bottom of the survey/statics in the small print. Say if 80% is the number being reported... it could have a margin of error of -/+ 20%... Where as +20% is unlikely and very unreasonable, but -20% very well may be more accurate. This doesn't mean that the 80% is off by 20% - but when they give you have that margin of error you can pretty much guess the average is in one way or the other more than just 1 or 2%. So if a reported statement says that 80% of accidents occur within 2 miles of your home but that has a margin of error or -/+10% I'd assume they are pushing that number higher as again 90% would be unlikely. But like everything - there is someone who stands to make money behind these numbers. So more is better if its being used as a scare tactic. But this also doesn't mean that a reported statistic at 80% is off by 40% or so. I guess what I mean to say is more of an additional clause to what isawhim said. You would still want to remove extraneous info from this stuff. A lot of these numbers are added with so many other statistical info to achieve a higher number like 60%-80% so it looks real bad. So lets talk hypothetical... If you saw an accident report saying that 80% of motorcycle fatalities occur taking a left turn. Then you saw that 10% of that number were drivers making illegal, blind u-turns (something you never do) then you take it out. Then you see that 10% of that number were drivers driving other bikes... Now your down to 60% of fatalities that you may have to worry about. Then you read that 20% were drunk... Don't drink? Don't drink and drive at least... Now you are down to 40% and that number isn't nearly as scary as before. I think Florida reported that 60% of motorcycle accidents in 2006 were from drivers in the first 6 months of riding their bike. This doesn't mean necessarily first 6 months of driving a motorcycle ever... They included people who bought a new bike (say going from a 150cc scooter up to a 1000cc crotch rocket) - and this doesn't mean fatalities, again these are reported accidents... Perhaps the number would be greater, or lesser the other way. I've seen a lot of statistics on motorcycle accidents.. And they all seem misleading.. They all tell me that 60% - 80% of motorcyclist who crashed/died did this or didn't do that. If that was the case then 90% of accidents were caused by first time riders, making left turns, while wearing no protective gear on someone else bike while drunk and on prescription medication.  I once compiled up statistics of deaths via auto-mo-car, aeroplanes, and terrorists.... Over a 30 some-odd year time frame. In short my conclusion was that you stand a much greater chance dieing in a car crash with 3 of your best friends, than on a plane full of terrorist. Of course this has a margin of error of like 20%  |
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Post by gottascoot on Jul 29, 2008 8:16:07 GMT -5
I think it`s whatever "THEY" say !! Who are "THEY"?
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Post by gfrphoto on Jul 29, 2008 9:51:25 GMT -5
I think it`s whatever "THEY" say !! Who are "THEY"? Yeah exactly. The financial advisors of Burger King say that 80% of Motorcyclist Die from making left hand turns... Be safe, make a right hand turn into your favorite Burger King today! |
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Post by harrywr2 on Jul 29, 2008 20:06:10 GMT -5
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Post by gottascoot on Jul 30, 2008 11:57:00 GMT -5
thanks ampmoped, I think the point is how much danger there is making a left turn(a guy here in N.Ga. just got hit by an old lady, he had been stopped making a left,she was doing 60mph) or someone turning left in front of you. thanks
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Post by Aerostudent on Aug 2, 2008 2:39:16 GMT -5
Hehe, I just made a right turn into BK yesterday, so the add is working, lol!  Had this little kid there about 4yrs or so just LOVIN' the scooter!!! Aero |
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Post by gottascoot on Aug 2, 2008 6:34:45 GMT -5
Hey Areo, you think that if you put a coin box on the back of your scoot,hook it to a speaker that would sound like the motor running you could park it out in front of BK while you eat you might make enough to pay for your meal ?
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Post by Interceptor Rev on Sept 8, 2008 10:29:52 GMT -5
Mark Twain: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
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Post by Dennis D on Sept 8, 2008 10:56:15 GMT -5
Mark Twain: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” +1 |
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Post by pukame2 on Sept 14, 2008 17:55:27 GMT -5
Being on the roads either in cages and various rides for over 50+ years, I've gained a sense of never assuming anything.
Just because I have the right of way, one has to watch out for that one individual who's not paying attention to the stopped vehicles at a crosswalk or intersection.
There are too many on cell phones doing their thing, or those who have their minds somewhere else.
I don't trust traffic, that's why I'm still around and kicking, well at least with one leg. ;D
I'm very cautious making left turns because I'm very vunerable on my left side, moreso now. What they say about having loss of a sense, well having a loss limb makes one more careful, or not.
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Had this little kid there about 4yrs or so just LOVIN' the scooter!!!
