Is NO kickstand kill switch legal in US?

[tanner9]

I have 3 full size motorcycles and one new scooter (MC-54-250B). All the bikes have a safety kill switch to prevent driving off with the kickstand down but no such switch on the scooter. I though any cycle sold in the US had to have this safety feature. Does anyone know for sure what the law is? Thanks JTM

[scootingranny]

Don't know about the law but my Konced retro 150cc doesn't have this type of kill switch on the kickstand. Personally I'm glad because it's just one more thing that could cause problems.

I had to have a mental "check off" list when I started riding and now it's just become habit. The first thing I do on starting procedure is to raise the kickstand, I then turn the key to the on position, flip the ignition button to run, squeeze the left brake and start. When stopping after a ride, I turn everything off in reverse order and then lower the kickstand last. Lowering the kickstand is first on "take off" and last on "landing" has so far worked well for me. (Sorry, I finally been able to start watching the NASA special from Discovery channel that I taped).

I never leave it running on the kickstand for any reason. DH did once and the vibration/wind knocked it over as he was closing the gate in the driveway. No major damage (DH said he was impressed the scoot came out relatively undamaged)--scratch on mirror, chrome strip on the back and trunk box but no body damages or scratches. I just don't want a repeat of that and DH promises he'll never leave it running on the kickstand again. All repairs/maintenance which requires scoot to be running is done with the center stand down.

DH has a Honda Shadow and if the kickstand is down, the bike is in gear and then the clutch is let out, the kill switch will then stop the motor. Since there is no operator clutch to let out, not sure how a kickstand kill switch on a scoot would work (I am not mechanically minded at all).

["Big Guy"]

No, there is no law governing the kick stand - most scoots don't even have that feature.

The best way to start your scoot is on the center stand. This way, while it warms up and the enricher has it at high idle, your not loading up the clutch and belt by holding it back with the brakes, it just free wheels.


-Rich

[isawhim]

The "Side" kick-stand switch is for safety due to a "Non-gear, direct driven system", and is a legal requirement by the DOT, to confirm with DOT standards for direct drive vehicles. (The drive wheel can not be engaged with the ground while starting, unless it has a "Neutral gear".)

If you remove the side kick-stand, you are 100% DOT compliant. (Though it is rarely enforced, any damage you inflict from the lack of a side-stand-kill-switch, will be 100% your fault. They might or might not inspect the bike to check for any tampering or existence of that safety device. This is more of an issue, where you let another person borrow or use your vehicle, and you are the one who tampered with it. If you can prove that it came that way, from the factory, the manufacture is libel for the damages.)

But like I said... rarely is that checked for, or enforced.

I know 50 people who drive with red-tape on the break-lights, and they are fine. I know 50 people who did the same, and got multiple tickets for having non DOT approved lighting covers. All the same red-tape from the same store. (Do it at your own risk.)

["Big Guy"]

I already called Kristi Bragdon on this and other regs ([phone]), and I am now a registered importer. No where in the NHTSA paperwork or FDMV regs does it say this. If you have a source for this information that may have been left out, I would appreciate it, or perhaps this is a State DMV rule where you are?


-Rich

["Big Guy"]

Jul 13, 2008 10:44:16 GMT -5 isawhim said:

...and is a legal requirement by the DOT, to confirm with DOT standards for direct drive vehicles. (The drive wheel can not be engaged with the ground while starting, unless it has a "Neutral gear".)...

The only way to comply with this is if the scoot is on the center stand. Apparently that has nothing to do with the side stand.


-Rich

[scooterollie]

None of my three Roketa scoots had a kick stand kill switch. Doubt they were all illegal. First two came from same assembler, last was from different assembler.

[gusset]

Personally, I would not want to own a scooter without a kickstand kill switch. If it somehow came down during a ride, a left turn could be very dangerous.

[garyr]

Hi Scootingranny,

Just a small point. I had a 1995 Shadow 1100 ACE for 10 years. Loved the bike. However, if I put the bike into gear with the side-stand down, it killed the motor. I didn't have to let out the clutch. I would like to build that feature into the H-D Electraglide I have now as I always felt it was a good safety feature. The Lance GSR150 I have now doesn't have it set up that way either. Any suggestions how to add it in?
Thanks
Garyr

[isawhim]

Who knew?

Looks like they revised the law. I can not locate when it was changed...
www.fmcsa.dot.gov, (Federal DOT requirements.)
The "Second Kill-Switch", simply has a "do" Not sure what that is code for, but they removed the description of the location. (I swear, it was there a few years ago! Ran into that problem with my first scooter. The DMV pointed me to the Federal DOT page, and they failed my NON DOT scooter. Later it passed, because of the "Grandfather clause". Which could be researched at that time.)

Seems that only a few states still have it listed as an inspection requirement. It is NOT DOT, but it may still be a local requirement.

The actual "State law", that I keep seeing, is worded oddly.

"No motor-vehicle may start in gear." (Catch 22, there is no neutral on a CVT, it uses a clutch...)

"Clutch drive engaged or auto-drive vehicles may not operate without the operator in control of the vehicle while the propulsion wheel is in contact with the ground, when no parking-break is present." (Eg, If the side-stand is down, you MAY not be in control of the vehicle that is resting with the drive-wheel on the ground. If the side-stand is up, you are in control, or the wheel is raised off the ground. That makes it "Safe" to start, since there is no "Neutral", to disengage the drive wheel from power.)

I just ripped the side-stand off. Problem solved in all states!

[griff10]

There really is very little enforcement of DOT standards with the possible exception of lights for the consumer. The enforcement is generally with the manufacturer/importer/dealer.

Bill H.

[dean]

I think the "do" is a note to themselves, e.g., "we need to do this one"

[mortar235]

mine doesn't have one either.. but i could sure use one, idk how many times i'm driving out my driveway thinking "whats that scraping sound??" lol

[texianmw]

"No motor-vehicle may start in gear." (Catch 22, there is no neutral on a CVT, it uses a clutch...)


Hmm. Then, technically, trying to push start a vehicle would be aviolation. Hmm?

[WarrenS]

Prior to the sidestand interlock switch Honda had a rubber piece that contacted the ground and would kick up the stand if you forgot. It would seem to be an easy update.

["Big Guy"]

Him,

Technically, the clutch is not engaged when you start the scooter, it engages when you twist the throttle (not accounting for the enricher). I'm sure if this went to a court which it never will, they would find that the scooter does indeed have a neutral gear.

Oh, and when you said, "any damage you inflict from the lack of a side-stand-kill-switch, will be 100% your fault" this would be true regardless of whether or not you even have a kickstand. Failure to control a motor vehicle is 100% your fault no matter what excuse you try and bring up.

Speaking of the kickstand switch, it reminds me of the time I started my scoot parked on the front porch patio from the remote starter. I always park it on the c-stand... except this one time. It took a nice little ride through my wife's prized landscaping all by itself! So if you don't have it, be careful!


-Rich

[gy6rocket]

Its actually pretty dangerous to start and idle on the side stand with direct drive CVT. At least on a motorcycle it can be revved in neutral without going anywhere. Problem with a scoot is if you rev it then the CVT grabs and down the bike goes. Almost had this happen to me, scoot was on the side stand running, buddy came on the other side, said "wow this thing sounds good" and revved it a bit and it launched off the sidestand. Luckily I was standing on the other side and reacted fast enough to grab the rear brake and squeezed it hard preventing the rocket from going down. He started apologizing for acting like an idiot instantly, thanking me for catching it.

[mafunsalow]

I'm looking at the wiring diagram that came with my 250-b and on the bottom behind the rear left turn light is something called "single-stand stall switch" . Does that mean we should have one?

[gfrphoto]

I like mine. Though, I center stand a lot so that in the mornings I can start it up, and let it warm for a minute or two before seating it to ride. But when I park it at night I usually use kickstand...

[gottascoot]

I love simple stuff,thats what draws me to scooters/motorcycles. The rubber "trigger" that hangs lower than your kickstand mounted to your kickstand is simple,works,won`t leave you stranded,cheap to replace and easy to trouble-shoot.You gotta love it ! It would be easy to add on.

[dumbass]

Jul 15, 2008 10:29:59 GMT -5 mafunsalow said:

I'm looking at the wiring diagram that came with my 250-b and on the bottom behind the rear left turn light is something called "single-stand stall switch" . Does that mean we should have one?

My new 250-B has the kick switch in the diagram too and it's mentioned in the so called user's manual. But to no supprise my scooter will start and run with the stand down. It has been like this from day one. I'm guessing there is no switch actually installed but as yet I have not check for it. I plan to strip the bike down to the frame to tighten all the bolts within the next week or so. I am doing this because my ignition switch fell out while I was riding.

I have stopped many times on the side of the rode for one reason or another. And while stopped I have lowered the kick stand and ether turned off the motor or ocationally left it running. Bottom line 70% of the time I forget to raise it before riding off. Sure would be nice to have tht switch working.

[jimk]

My Mc-54 doesn't have the switch... The 81 KZ750 didn't have on either... My Son's Nighthawk has a shutoff switch, so if it's in gear, it will shut off the motor.. But, I'm kinda glad I don't have one either... Since I don't have Neutral, I would not be able to let it idle on the kickstand, like when I stop off at the soda machine to get a coke when I ride... It's kinda nice to just drop the sidestand..

JmK

[edwardscat]

Jul 14, 2008 20:14:43 GMT -5 texianmw said:

"No motor-vehicle may start in gear." (Catch 22, there is no neutral on a CVT, it uses a clutch...)


Hmm. Then, technically, trying to push start a vehicle would be aviolation. Hmm?

Just how fast do you have to push a scoot to push start it.
I get winded around 12 mph in my work shoes.

Oh, no switch on a 2008 GSR150

[pukame2]

My tank doesn't have va kickstand switch either.

[erictheviking666]

My new 2008 JMStar does not have the kill switch. I've had to put in down with the Scoot idling and run over and hit the crosswalk button to make a red light change late at night because my Scooter wasn't heavy enough to trip the sensors.

[owenbrau]

I have owned four motorcycles and now a scooter, and none had a sidestyand kill switch. The bikes would not engage the electric starter unless they were in neutral (kick-starting a bike in gear is an exercise in futility), and the scoot requires one of the brakes to be held while starting.

I can see riding off forgetting the stand (I've done it), but to have it "somehow" come down while riding?

[erictheviking666]

Yeah, I would think the only way that could ever happen is if the spring is really weak and if you hit a really big bump or pothole.

[jprestonian]

I think my People 250 has the kill switch, but I dunno -- I never use the kickstand. It looks way too unstable on the kick. Center-stand-only for me!
.

[star8013]

My Hyosung has a switch on it . It will let you start the scoot and Idle it but if you attempt to increase throttle it just sputters and wont do anything,. but doesn't die

[lankeeyankee]

I guess the Chinese are smarter than us here in the US. Do you need a safety switch to let you know you forgot to close your door when you get in your car?