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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 27, 2006 8:49:00 GMT -5
I've been shooting some temperature readings at the cylinder, head and radiator to get an idea of where the temperatures normally run on this engine. While the weather does have some affect, it wasn't really very dramatic.
Somewhere in this maze of information, I posted several readings, but at almost exactly 500km on one of the hotter days (around 100*) the scooter read very near the danger zone. As soon as I got home, I shot new readings and there was a 60* difference between the engine and the radiator. The fans work fine, and this told me that the radiator was cooling, but the engine wasn't.
I decided to remove the thermostat to see if it had failed. It looked fine and seemed to be working, but I removed it anyway. I was utterly shocked to find severe calcium deposits in the aluminum casting though. The thermostat didn't lower the operating temperature, so that resolved whether it was sticking.
Next, I ran some cooling system cleaner through it, and flushed the system thoroughly. In looking at the engine parts breakdown, I suspect the water pump impeller is rubber, and there is the possibility that the calcium deposits have damaged it some since I am now running cooler, but not as low as normal. I'll post more on this when I have a new impeller, but that may be a while before they are available for the 172MM engines. Stan
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 27, 2006 9:10:09 GMT -5
Stan;
Interesting. What do you think caused the calcium deposits? When my hose to the pump blew off and ejected the coolant, I replaced it with Zerex G-05. This is a "HOAT" based low acid formulation designed to protect internal cooling system parts from erosion and deposits. Use it in my German car. I now have almost 600 KMs and cooling is still normal.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 27, 2006 23:07:06 GMT -5
It's hard to say what caused it, but I suspect it was the gorilla piss they shipped the scooter with. Seems odd though that it would corrode that fast, so who knows. This was an over night change. One day the temp was normal and the next it started to climb. I'll get to the bottom of it, but I thought this might help others to watch for a few things. Stan Stan; Interesting. What do you think caused the calcium deposits? When my hose to the pump blew off and ejected the coolant, I replaced it with Zerex G-05. This is a "HOAT" based low acid formulation designed to protect internal cooling system parts from erosion and deposits. Use it in my German car. I now have almost 600 KMs and cooling is still normal. |
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Post by slowfire on Jul 28, 2006 4:21:48 GMT -5
Thank you for the heads up info. Ill be following your lead this weekend and changing out the coolant in my bike . Also scooterollie, I looked again tonight and the plate under my seat is still there and it still claims its a 255.I wonder could ktmmex have punched out .010 or .020 overbore for some reason and shipped me a one of a kind? I don't know myself just that it likes gas for a scooter and goes like heck. Thanks slowfire
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 28, 2006 8:57:18 GMT -5
I sent an email to CFMoto to see of they will supply some spare parts so I can open up the water pump to see what things look like, so if I can get replacement parts, I'll be checking into it soon. Stan Thank you for the heads up info. Ill be following your lead this weekend and changing out the coolant in my bike . Also scooterollie, I looked again tonight and the plate under my seat is still there and it still claims its a 255.I wonder could ktmmex have punched out .010 or .020 overbore for some reason and shipped me a one of a kind? I don't know myself just that it likes gas for a scooter and goes like heck. Thanks slowfire |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 28, 2006 9:01:40 GMT -5
The reply from CFMoto came back says it will be 2-3 months before they will supply parts for non warranty items. Stan I sent an email to CFMoto to see of they will supply some spare parts so I can open up the water pump to see what things look like, so if I can get replacement parts, I'll be checking into it soon. Stan Thank you for the heads up info. Ill be following your lead this weekend and changing out the coolant in my bike . Also scooterollie, I looked again tonight and the plate under my seat is still there and it still claims its a 255.I wonder could ktmmex have punched out .010 or .020 overbore for some reason and shipped me a one of a kind? I don't know myself just that it likes gas for a scooter and goes like heck. Thanks slowfire |
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 28, 2006 13:11:10 GMT -5
Stan;
Great!!! Wouldn't this be considered a warranty problem?
slowfire;
Interesting. Maybe Stan can check the label on his for comparison. Don't think it would be a one-off.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 28, 2006 20:29:35 GMT -5
Warranty??? This is a Tank! ;D What label are you looking for? Stan; Great!!! Wouldn't this be considered a warranty problem? slowfire; Interesting. Maybe Stan can check the label on his for comparison. Don't think it would be a one-off. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 28, 2006 20:33:10 GMT -5
You're reading the engine family. A couple lines above says 250cc. Stan Thank you for the heads up info. Ill be following your lead this weekend and changing out the coolant in my bike . Also scooterollie, I looked again tonight and the plate under my seat is still there and it still claims its a 255.I wonder could ktmmex have punched out .010 or .020 overbore for some reason and shipped me a one of a kind? I don't know myself just that it likes gas for a scooter and goes like heck. Thanks slowfire |
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Post by slowfire on Jul 28, 2006 20:54:44 GMT -5
Master stan has spoken. Ill acept his word. Thank you for checking. slowfire
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 29, 2006 15:20:58 GMT -5
Interesting, my plate says:
Engine Displacement 244cc
Engine Family 6CQACO.25NFG
Stan;
I know you are aware that aluminum corrosion is a problem without the proper coolant type and additives. In the presence of water and without the proper corrosion inhibitors, aluminum will corrode VERY fast. My original stuff did smell like antifreeze and was the light yellow-green color. Many years ago, Toyota warned against some brands of coolant doing the same with the aluminum heads they were using. Most U.S. engines still had cast iron heads. You would think that is all way in the past, even for China! Was it inside the thermostat housing you saw the deposits? All this shouldn't really be a problem if this engine has been produced in China for years.
My local Roketa dealer friend needed to order some parts under warranty for a new TT150 he set up for a customer who ordered it drop-ship and had some problems. In the process of contacting Tank, he said they would list him as an official Tank repair center. He needs a front rotor and both caliper units. They have the calipers but not the rotor. Can't you get what you want through your "dealer"? Don't know how/where you purchased the scoot - not trying to be nosey. I can check w/my friend to see if he can get 250 parts. Let me know if and what.
BTW, are the front/rear calipers on the TT150 the same size as on the TT250? I have seen a TT150 but did not check caliper size at the time.
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Post by medman1952 on Jul 29, 2006 16:37:32 GMT -5
Stan,
I am assuming that you know but in case you don't. Aluminum oxide looks very much like what one would think calcium would look like, white powder. You could have some corrosion, but some good quality coolant should also slow that down.
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 29, 2006 17:13:33 GMT -5
Exactly, medman!
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 29, 2006 18:49:13 GMT -5
Yes, you are correct and I really shouldn't have used the term corrosion, but it makes more sense to people than terms like sulfation or aluminum oxidation. This is actually fairly normal stuff for aluminum castings without the use of an inhibitor. My concern is that it's fairly large and it could easily plug up the radiator if left alone. I''ve now done 2 flushes and replaced all of the OEM coolant. My temp is now fairly stabil except it does get higher than normal at times. Once the fan kicks in it comes right back down, so I know I'm getting circulation. I'm just going to watch it for a while and see where it goes. Stan Stan, I am assuming that you know but in case you don't. Aluminum oxide looks very much like what one would think calcium would look like, white powder. You could have some corrosion, but some good quality coolant should also slow that down. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 29, 2006 18:52:39 GMT -5
Yes, but you have a Roketa (Tank is probably lying about 250cc). ;D Having flushed the system twice and replaced the coolant, I'm confident that I have protected the system as much as I can. The TT150 calipers appear to be the same units as the TT250. In fact, I have no doubt all of the front end parts are the same. Stan Interesting, my plate says: Engine Displacement 244cc Engine Family 6CQACO.25NFG Stan; I know you are aware that aluminum corrosion is a problem without the proper coolant type and additives. In the presence of water and without the proper corrosion inhibitors, aluminum will corrode VERY fast. My original stuff did smell like antifreeze and was the light yellow-green color. Many years ago, Toyota warned against some brands of coolant doing the same with the aluminum heads they were using. Most U.S. engines still had cast iron heads. You would think that is all way in the past, even for China! Was it inside the thermostat housing you saw the deposits? All this shouldn't really be a problem if this engine has been produced in China for years. My local Roketa dealer friend needed to order some parts under warranty for a new TT150 he set up for a customer who ordered it drop-ship and had some problems. In the process of contacting Tank, he said they would list him as an official Tank repair center. He needs a front rotor and both caliper units. They have the calipers but not the rotor. Can't you get what you want through your "dealer"? Don't know how/where you purchased the scoot - not trying to be nosey. I can check w/my friend to see if he can get 250 parts. Let me know if and what. BTW, are the front/rear calipers on the TT150 the same size as on the TT250? I have seen a TT150 but did not check caliper size at the time. |
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 29, 2006 20:29:36 GMT -5
Stan;
I checked the front caliper for the Roketa 150 Phantom clone and it is smaller than that on my 250 Bali.
Hope you located the source of the problem and corrected it with your treatment! Wonder if a sensor has begun to fail and is changing value? That is one good thing about computers in cars today, they could pull up the readings on the sensors and see if they were in spec!
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