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Post by gagstopher on Feb 5, 2013 5:44:30 GMT -5
hi all, have a 50 cc 4 stroke kymco i have done a 70cc bbk install on.The bike performs very well now however has one problem. it sounds like its cranking pretty hard with the key but just will not start the engine, it usually starts with the kick start first go ( or within 5 kicks).
Valves are all adjusted correctly, correct jet in carb and idle fuel adjusted.
i bought a ignition coil which didnt help.tried hooking it to a big battery didnt help also.
is this a common problem when doing a big bore kit and how can i solve this? thanks for looking.
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Post by conorabc on Feb 5, 2013 14:19:58 GMT -5
How old is the starter?
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Post by yosemite on Feb 5, 2013 14:26:04 GMT -5
If the starter is not turning the motor over fast enough it will have to be right on for them to start on the first or second compression stroke. So if the battery is weak or to small and does not have enough amps that is one problem the other is a starter going south. So If you jump it with a Car(NOT RUNNING) if the Starter is in good condition it should spin the motor over fast enough If it still doesn't then I would suspect the starter.
Sam
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 5, 2013 15:47:48 GMT -5
The starter (and bike ) is a 2010 model, 2500km old.
It does sound like it is cranking the engine very fast and I have tried it jumped to a bigger battery to no avail! Cheers
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 5, 2013 17:35:24 GMT -5
Forgot to mention it starts with the key within 30 minutes of just riding it
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Post by yosemite on Feb 5, 2013 17:46:11 GMT -5
So it starts after it is warm, then check your fuel delivery when cold, check your ENRICHER make sure it is RETRACTED to feed extra fuel when cold. If it is RETRACTED then your Fuel Ratio Mixture is OFF. So when it is cold and cranking with no start Pull the plug and see if it is WET OR DRY. That will tell you the problem for cold starts. If wet is to much fuel and flooding if Dry with no fire then suspect your ENRICHER that it is EXTENDED or one or more of the three holes behind the ENRICHER are clogged. The Enricher has three holes one gets air from the Air Filter side of the carb, one sucks fuel from the bowl and the third the fuel gets sucked out right in front of the Butterfly.
Sam
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 5, 2013 21:30:25 GMT -5
The enricher is retracted and working correctly,I will check the plug after cranking as soon as I can - thanks
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 7, 2013 20:08:47 GMT -5
Plug seems fine, anybody know of any electrical gremlin that can cause this. Somewhere not earthing quite right?
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Post by edfr on Feb 7, 2013 20:15:46 GMT -5
Since you said you checked the Plug after cranking and the motor NOT fireing ONCE, how was the PLUG WET OR DRY?
Lefty
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Post by tvnacman on Feb 7, 2013 20:17:22 GMT -5
Are you using a stock cdi ? Does it labor to crank . . It might be worth a variable timing cdi that I sell . The, timing is retarded at idle and start up then once you go over 3k rpm it advances the timing . I have had positive feedback from moders with bbk's with hard start problems . They have reported back that proformance is nice .
John
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Post by conorabc on Feb 7, 2013 20:23:25 GMT -5
Maybe you need a better starter?
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 7, 2013 21:51:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies guys. It was dry and I have tested it by adjusting the fuel screw to allow for fuel,until it was wet.still no bang. I'm running the stock CDI and it doesn't sound like its labouring to crank at all.cranks pretty hard. Do people upgrade the stock starter? How can this help If its cranking hard already
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Post by tvnacman on Feb 8, 2013 5:51:27 GMT -5
I have heard of a hi tork starter , not sure where to get one .
You will get plenty of advice here , You will make up your own mind of what to do .
If you have spark grounded to the engine and fuel it should fire with a good crank .
Has this scooter run since the bbk install ?
John
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 8, 2013 7:10:07 GMT -5
Hey John, yes runs well with the bbk just have to start it with the kicker.ive done over a 1000 km on the engine. Just don't want to keep kicking it cause ill crack the cvt cover.
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Post by millsc on Feb 8, 2013 9:23:20 GMT -5
My roketa was hard to crank with electric i took out the bendix and cleaned and oiled it and put a very small amount of oil in the hole it goes in and it cranks great now.
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Post by edfr on Feb 8, 2013 16:25:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies guys. It was dry and I have tested it by adjusting the fuel screw to allow for fuel,until it was wet.still no bang. I'm running the stock CDI and it doesn't sound like its labouring to crank at all.cranks pretty hard. Do people upgrade the stock starter? How can this help If its cranking hard already When you say Cranks pretty hard, do you mean that it turns the motor over FAST or SLOW. If Slow what AMPS is your battery? Have you tried jumping your battery with a Car(not running)? If jumping it with a Car and it spins the Starter Fast then you need a stronger AMP battery. If with the Carb Battery Jump the Starter Still Drags then you need a NEW STARTER. Lefty |
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 8, 2013 22:54:21 GMT -5
Sorry that wasn't clear (Australian slang) . I mean it cranks fast. I have tried using jump cables before and it didn't change anything . I would try that again but I don't have any cables at the moment
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 9, 2013 2:03:08 GMT -5
I also just read this on another post on this site with someone having the same issue as I am - it says " Starting on the kick start and not the electric start is classic of two things,1 no ground wire from batt to frame,frame to engine," -- can someone explain to me how to check this or where can I run seperate wires to ensure this isn't the problem. I'd like to run seperate wires just to test this . (Sorry I have no real idea about electrics)
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Post by edfr on Feb 9, 2013 2:21:11 GMT -5
If it starts with the kickstarter all your grounds are fine and not the problem. You have to remember that all the Electric starter does is turn the motor over JUST LIKE YOUR KICKSTARTER does. So I do not believe the starter is turning over fast enough using the electric start otherwise it would start. You may think it is turning it over fast enough but it was it would start.
How many amps is your battery, it will say right on the battery?
Lefty
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 9, 2013 3:00:25 GMT -5
It's a gtx7a-bs so I guess 7
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 10, 2013 3:37:50 GMT -5
PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!! Thanks again everyone who helped.
I ran a earth wire from the battery to the engine and it starts up with the key first time every time! (Take the wire off and It won't start,tested many times)
Now can anyone explain why? If it had spark and fuel and cranking well already then what is this wire doing? I'm almost certain I haven't removed any wire or anything when I did the bbk!
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Post by edfr on Feb 10, 2013 3:52:26 GMT -5
That is not possible if it started with the Kickstarter. The Electric starter turns your starter which in turn turns your crank, the kickstarter also all it does is turn your crank.
The Electric starter or the Kickstarter has NOTHING TO DO with fireing the Spark Plug PERIOD.
But I am glad it is starting for you for whatever reason.
Ride Safe
Lefty
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 10, 2013 5:38:38 GMT -5
I can't figure it out either but I assure you that if I remove that wire it will not start, tested many many times
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Post by tvnacman on Feb 10, 2013 8:42:12 GMT -5
I would remove the stock ground and check that is is making a good clean tight connection .
John
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Post by gagstopher on Feb 10, 2013 19:28:37 GMT -5
Any idea where that connects on these things?
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Post by tvnacman on Feb 11, 2013 5:56:49 GMT -5
follow the negative battery cable .
John
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