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Post by waterboysh on Nov 11, 2012 18:00:42 GMT -5
My car is starting to get to the age where it's costing more to maintain than I'd like. I'm starting school in January, so I've been seriously considering buying a scooter. I've been doing my research. I think that getting a cheap scoot online is the best way for me to go. I've read the PDI and I know to expect to have to mess around with things. I don't know much about engines, but I'm a very good learner. Plus, my dad will help me. I want to get one now and sell my car while I can still sell it for enough to cover the cost of a scooter. In a few years it wont be worth much at all I don't think. I've been looking at 150cc. I don't want to be a traffic obstacle. I think I've narrowed it down to these few choices from 2 different dealers. I'd like opinions on the dealers and the scoots themselves. 1) TaoTao CY-150A ( Proven Powersports | GS Motorworks) 2) TaoTao Powermax-150 ( Proven Powersports | GS Motorworks) 2) CY150-D ( Proven Powersports) In all cases, Proven Powersports is cheaper on the price and shipping. Both claim free shipping and lift gate, but GS Motorworks says there is a $59 fuel surcharge fee for shipping to FL, which makes PP even more cheaper in comparison. I've read good things about GS here though so I'd be willing to pay an extra $100 for superior service.
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Post by millsc on Nov 11, 2012 18:03:08 GMT -5
i got mine from gsmotorworks or budgetatv's same company can call gsmotorworks and they answer budgetatv's at times they did me good got my scooter in four days! They replace broke parts no questions asked and dont even have to send in old part.
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Post by teddy554 on Nov 11, 2012 18:08:29 GMT -5
I think it comes from the same drop shipper in a crate untouch from either company u order from,i have order from proven and also got scoot in four days
Sent from my SPH-D710BST using proboards
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Post by millsc on Nov 11, 2012 18:10:53 GMT -5
could be, i called gsmotorworks to get a replacement part one time and they answered budgetatvs
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Post by prodigit on Nov 11, 2012 19:23:26 GMT -5
check superiorpowersports for bikes! They usually sell them $100 cheaper than competitors. I've ordered 2 bikes there, that came in a great condition to my house. When you call them right after they delivered the bike to you, they'll send the title to you the next week (otherwise it'll take 2 to 3 weeks to arrive)!
The only bad is they do a basic PDI. You need to do the advanced one yourself (which will probably keep you busy for a week, unless you're working all day on it). You could take the risk, and just mount the front wheel, optional windshield and trunk, and the handlebar, and add engine and CVT oil, and optional radiator fluid; however bolts might be rattling down your bike in the long run!
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Post by musikron on Nov 11, 2012 21:33:11 GMT -5
I had a 150 for a bit a was definitely a traffic obstacle, I have since upgraded to a 300 and no longer get run off the road on a daily basis. I think it depends on where you are, a very urban environment and a 150 should be fine, but any sort of commute on 40mph+ roads and it gets sketchy IMO.
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Post by scootnwinn on Nov 11, 2012 21:51:03 GMT -5
I am assuming. you're in FL You can get a nice scooter for less or the same money as a new one. generally all the bugs are already worked out titling is easier and sometimes you'll get a nice helmet with it (I got 2 with my last one) here's one from Miami miami.craigslist.org/brw/mcy/3401811579.htmlJust thought you might want to keep your money local. I don't know if your in Miami but the add I posted took about 1 minute of looking and is fairly typical. there are Tao Taos on there for less than you are looking to pay and some of them are new. Be cautious and consider all your options as you intend to make this your primary transportation
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Post by waterboysh on Nov 11, 2012 22:20:47 GMT -5
I am assuming. you're in FL Yes, Gainesville. I've looked around on Craigslist, but the only ones I've seen are the ones the college graduates are wanting to get rid of. I've noticed they tend to not take very good care of the scooters. I met a guy and test drove one today actually. This one. Looks ok in the picture and talking to the guy it sounded ok, but when I looked at it in person I saw there was quite a bit of rust in places, the fuel gauge shows E all the time, when I hit 50 mph I could feel it bogging down like it either wasn't getting enough air or fuel or something, and the headlight bulbs are out. Being a college town, the local B&M stores have pretty high prices. The cheapest 150cc I've been able to find is $1499, and of course there's sales tax on top of that. I've read reviews about the places here too and most of them are just as bad as the reviews I read about online dealers and how it's nearly impossible to get service. I think I'd rather have a cheap brand new one. That way I know what has been done to it. I can take good care of it, perform the proper PDI and remove some of the cheap, no-good parts and replace them with better quality parts. I'm not expecting a scooter I can just jump on and ride and not have any problems for 20 thousand miles.
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Post by scootnwinn on Nov 11, 2012 22:38:41 GMT -5
Sounds like you got head on straight and your eyes wide open The bikes you are looking at are all the same mechanically get the one you want to look at every morning for the next couple of years. See ya on the road
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Post by prodigit on Nov 11, 2012 22:40:28 GMT -5
Remember, if your budget is $1000, that you'll need a motorcycle endorsement in some states (~$200), an insurance in others ($75-$100/yr), motor gear (Helmet $30-100, gloves $10-35, and goggles $25), and do your tag (~$250). Then you'll also need a bottle of engine oil (~$5), and gear oil ($15), and sometimes a bottle of radiator fluid (~$4). So expect an average of ~$500 on extras!
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Post by waterboysh on Nov 12, 2012 0:34:03 GMT -5
Remember, if your budget is $1000, that you'll need a motorcycle endorsement in some states (~$200), an insurance in others ($75-$100/yr), motor gear (Helmet $30-100, gloves $10-35, and goggles $25), and do your tag (~$250). Then you'll also need a bottle of engine oil (~$5), and gear oil ($15), and sometimes a bottle of radiator fluid (~$4). So expect an average of ~$500 on extras! Yeah, I know. That's part of my budget. I do need a motorcycle endorsement for 50cc or higher, and my local place is running a special between now and Christmas where it's only $150 instead of the normal $200. I'm thinking $1,000 on the scoot, $150 for license, I asked the DOT and it's roughly $150 to get it registered. I'll probably spend $50 - $75ish replacing fuel lines, vacuum lines, and the other stuff the PDI I linked in the OP says. Total I expect it to be about $1500 which quite coincidentally is probably what I could sell my car for, if I sell it now before it gets worse. Also, my car insurance rate will be cut in half. I'll go from $60 a month for my car to $30 a month on the scoot. I already called my agent and had them do a rough estimate for me. So far, no one has mentioned Proven Powersports though. I'm leaning towards the CY-150A at the moment, and it would be $90 cheaper to get it from there rather than GS MotorWorks. Like I said though, I'm willing to pay that $90 for superior service, but I was hoping at least one person would have an opinion either way about Proven Powersports. Also, what do y'all think about TaoTao in general? Compared to other cheap scoots how do they stand? I'm getting really excited about getting a scoot. My sister-in-law lived in Taiwan for 2 years teaching English, and when we went to visit for 10 days we rented scooters and rode them everywhere. It was so much fun.
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Post by waterboysh on Nov 14, 2012 0:47:12 GMT -5
Alright, I've pretty much made up my mind. Most likely going with the TaoTao ATM150-A from Proven Powersports. I like the look of this model more than the others, and unfortunately that same model would cost $270 more at GS Motorworks. I have some general questions of things I need to know. 1) This is the first scoot I've ever owned, much less ordered off the Internet. When I call PPS up, is there anything specific I need to ask? Are there any hidden fees dealers try to slip in I need to be aware of? Anything I need to ask if it's included? Stuff like that. 2) When it's delivered and the lift-gate guy puts it down on my driveway, I know I should inspect it for damage, but how thoroughly? Are we talking mainly body damage? Should I inspect the engine at this time too? I don't want the life-gate guy to get mad for it taking so long, but I don't want a damaged scoot either. How long should this take? 3) I want to follow this pdi, which specifically mentioned replacing a fuse, fuel lines, fuel filter, vacuum lines, and hose clamps (and of course engine and gear oil). I want to make sure I can get these parts, but how do I know in advance which parts I will need. forgive me if this is a dumb question. My dad is going to help me replace all the parts because he knows a lot about engines, and I'm hoping to learn from him so I can maintain it. I'm trying to do my homework before I get the scoot so I'm prepared when it comes. I'm guessing fuel lines and vacuum lines are pretty standard. I could just take the existing ones into Autozone and ask them to match them up. What about the fuel filter though? And is there any recommended brand/size/type or anything like that? Thanks a lot for the help guys.
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 14, 2012 1:03:01 GMT -5
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Post by jlee on Nov 14, 2012 1:45:10 GMT -5
A fuel filter is a fuel filter. The bigger it is, the longer it will last. Stay away from the 99-cent specials.
Some people prefer clear fuel lines over black. Your choice. Pretty much anything at the local parts shop will be better than what it comes with.
As far as the delivery inspection, you just want to check for shipping damage. The delivery guy is not going to wait around for you to uncrate it and do a thourough inspection. That will be part of the PDI.
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Post by dragzilla on Nov 14, 2012 13:10:05 GMT -5
I think your final choice looks much better than the others ! You will have many of fun, provided that you maintain it properly. mine didnt even run out of the crate. I took all the body plastics off, and after inspecting the wire harness, it seems they pinched the wires between 2 body panels that operate the kill switch. After I repaired the short, I have had no other problems and I now have over 7000 miles on it. I did upgrade the transmission though, with a 115mm variator and drive face, and adjustable torque sheave and clutch.
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Post by prodigit on Nov 14, 2012 15:18:09 GMT -5
waterboysh: I'd say TaoTao got the basics right! The GY6 engine is the same as on other bikes, their frames are sufficient, their bolts are well tied up. Their bikes are easy made, not too complex, and I find the ATM50 is very well tuned! I did see some electrical issues, like some plugs started to corrode, which is probably Tao's weak point (at least on my bike), and my horn stopped working after 1k miles. Some other users mentioned the fuel meter stopped working after (I believe was) 2+k miles or so, most of these are electrical issues. The items they sell corrode very fast, meaning superficial rust, and probably in 2-4 years, form a more deep rust. On the 150 you buy, I'm not sure, but think they've equipped it with a aluminum exhaust? If so, aluminum does not corrode as fast as their fake chrome exhausts (they're actually just plain steel). Concerning the spark plug and fuel lines, on my tao, I needed to gap the spark plug before driving (basically taking out the spark plug, and hit the plug against something, making a ~.75mm gap instead of the ~1,5mm gap the bike came originally with. The fuel lines are ok. I've driven 1k miles with them, they feel rather thin, but they hold. At least they're better than 2008 models or before, where the ethanol in gasoline would eat the rubber. The fuel lines are holding out so far, and I suggest changing spark plug and fuel lines, only when they start to wear out (when you visually see the fuel lines are leaking, meaning are wet with fuel, but not dripping). Usually those lines are like tires; you don't get an immediate leak spraying fuel all over your bike. It usually starts with micro pores, allowing gasoline to evaporate through the lines. 1) usually, if the website does not mention it, there are hidden fees. If they mention that it's included in the price, it's included, or if it's an extra charge, you know of it as well. Usually they ship items to a nearby wearhouse. The costs for that shipping is cheap. From there, they do a door delivery. Usually that's ~$65. If you have 2 strong guys in the house at the time of delivery, you can save 'liftgate delivery fees', that is, if they don't mind helping you take the scoot box from the truck. If you're by yourself, or don't have a way to pick up your scoot (with cage it's probably around 500LBS), you need to pay liftgate service, which ranges usually from $120 to $250, depending on the size and weight, and company and location of delivery). IMHO, liftgate is the way to go for any 50cc scoot or up. Then there might be title fees, depending if it's described in the website or not. If they don't mention a PDI, means they don't do a PDI. If they say they will do a free PDI, means usually they put a few squirts of oil in the engine and transmission (just enough for it not to overheat when test starting the engine), plug a fuel line straight in the carb, start the engine, and visually check all the cables and bolts. They usually don't put locktite on all bolts, neither do they check any unusual or difficult to reach places (like inside a carb, or engine, or transmission). They also quick check the lights. It's what I'd call a 'quick PDI', inspecting the majority of all usual things to break down (or something) 2- liftgate inspection is very easy. usually when you see dents on the box, indicating it had fallen over, you can request to open the box, and visually inspect the item. Usually when the box is undamaged, the items will be undamaged. What to look for: -Obvious Physical damage to the body, and most of all, the windshield. The windshield is usually placed on top of the seat. If anything got broken, it's usually the windshield. If the windshield is ok, and you can't see and obvious cracks in the body panels (showing that the crate fell, damaging the goods, or something), then you can be fairly sure the item was transported well. I'd not take more than 5 minutes of your time checking the bike. If the bike looks good, but the engine does not work, (and it was PDI-ed by the dealer), then that's the dealers problem, not the delivery guy. 3- I find the stock fuel filter is good enough, however changing it may be a good thing. ALso the hose clamps, I'd just attach them correctly. Quite often they are attached on the hose itself, instead of on the end parts, where they are over some snout or pipe or other thing. I'd also only replace the hose clamps when you change the fuel lines. The hose clamps of the Tao are good enough! (they're not plastic bands, but steel coils, and should last you a long time) For fuel filter, just take out your fuel filter, and buy one for a scooter or motorcycle, that has the same hose dimensions as yours. Anything bigger than yours (the stock one is probably no larger than a Baby D style battery) is fine, and allows a better fuel flow. Just make sure it's mounted correctly. Congrads with your 150! IT's a good choice!
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Post by jdikov on Nov 14, 2012 16:54:18 GMT -5
You should take a look at our Supremo made by ZNEN. We do not charge you extra for the 1 year bumper to bumper warranty or to process your order the next day. Scoots ship out of Jacksonville and you can save another $100 if you pick it up yourself and we can give you a Scootdawg discout of $100 on top of that. The pictures of the red on show the superior paint job of the ZNEN factory, the other pics are from when we used Metian as our supplier. Take a look and call if you have any qs www.scootersus.com/motorinosupremo-150cc.htmlJohn 203-500-0960
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Post by Makarov on Nov 14, 2012 18:15:43 GMT -5
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Post by Makarov on Nov 14, 2012 21:16:44 GMT -5
P.S.----Mine was shipped in an undamaged crate from Carrollton, Tx. I think that is the Tao main warehouse where they are received from China and they are not inspected or even looked at. Whatever they throw in the box in China is what you get.
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 14, 2012 21:22:34 GMT -5
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Post by scootnwinn on Nov 14, 2012 22:07:59 GMT -5
I like the one skuttadawg linked. Valley has a good rep.
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 14, 2012 22:54:45 GMT -5
CFMoto Glory and some of the Echarms like mine , have EFI which superior to a carb by far , liquid cooled , disc brakes F&R , stronger engine than the others and best of all a 2 year unlimited mile full warranty even all electrical components . I have over 12,000 on my Echarm and only changed the oil and 1 valve adjustment and replaced the belt around 11,500 miles . I can go uphill with a passenger faster than some can go downhill . It tops at 75 MPH and cruises 50 to 60 with ease so its not working its tail off to do highway speed so it will outlast those that are maxed out to their limit . I have a 35 watt headlight that surprisingly is bright enough to see even on a dark country road
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Post by waterboysh on Nov 15, 2012 15:47:42 GMT -5
I must admit, y'all are really tempting me, especially with the one skuttadawg posted. What makes CF Moto better than TaoTao? It's fuel injected and liquid cooled, wouldn't that just add engine complexity making it harder and more expensive to fix? They are made in China just like TaoTao.
My biggest issue is budget. A $1000 scoot will cost $150 to register, plus $60 sales tax. A motorcycle endorsement will run me $150, plus the $25 for a new DL (which I need anyway because I've moved). Then replacing the parts I've mentioned above is probably another $50. Then I'll need gear, which I have no idea how much that'll cost, but I figure at least $100 - $150 for a good helmet, gloves, rain jacket, etc. So total around $1550.
With the CF Moto scoot, let's say it's $1300 (he mentioned a $100 scootdawg discount and $100 off if I pick it up myself). That pushes sales tax to $80. Also, it'd cost about $60 or so in gas to drive to Jacksonville. That's around $1950 total.
It would be doable, the extra $400. I would just have to know it's worth it. With the CF Moto scoot, I imagine I'd still want to replace the fuel lines, fuel filter, etc right? One of my biggest concerns is this section of the warranty:
Having a professional do the PDI inspection instead of me and my dad doing it would just be another expense. It sounds like if I do it (or any other work to it) myself I will void my warranty.
I've heard good things about Valley Scooters on here. I like that the owner is active on here and even gives a discount... that's really awesome. I just don't know if I can afford the extra expenses though.
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Post by millsc on Nov 15, 2012 16:23:14 GMT -5
i have a tao tao it runs good now, after just about everything broke and i've replaced almost every piece including the crappy rims and tires, everything but the body panels, save yourself the headache spend the extra now instead of later.
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Post by jdikov on Nov 15, 2012 16:44:31 GMT -5
Wish I could tell you that you could get a CF Moto but they are all gone. Great machines but now there is no support for them from the manufacturer. They have cut off most of the dealers they had in the US and you can only get parts from one of the few dealers they still have. They had a good thing going but lut like many Chinese companies have no clue how to do business in the US. Back when Lev ran the show things were smooth. Then the Chinese decided they were going to take over and everything went to hell. But the next best thing if you can't find one of those somewhere is to go with the ZNEN scoots.
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Post by scootnwinn on Nov 15, 2012 16:50:08 GMT -5
i have a tao tao it runs good now, after just about everything broke and i've replaced almost every piece including the crappy rims and tires, everything but the body panels, save yourself the headache spend the extra now instead of later. There's at least your extra $400. CFMoto is fairly high quality (from what I have gleaned second hand) and water cooling though it does add complexity it also adds longevity as the parts are not exposed to as extreme of a range in temps. Fuel injection adds mpg and power it may actually be simpler than a carb as far as shear number of moving parts...
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Post by prodigit on Nov 15, 2012 20:25:50 GMT -5
I personally don't have any complaints about my 50cc TaoTao, that is, if you're buying a bike you will most likely only drive for 2 to 4 years, get them as cheap as you can!
Also, If you buy them from a dealer, you better make sure the bike is in working order. When they PDI them, you're sure the bike is working, even if it's not working 100%. But it's working.
If the company does not perform any basic PDI of sorts, the bike might just be received from China, and directly shipped to you, without visual inspection, or unpacking it. It may be missing pieces.
Most china bikes I have had, missed at least 1 or 2 bolts or nuts somewhere.
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Post by teddy554 on Nov 15, 2012 20:26:42 GMT -5
Got to agree that taotao are cheap (fun junk) from what i have seen vally scooter got me really wanting the MOTORINO SUPREMO 50CC scooter they look real nice been wanting a good looking 4t to mod out
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Post by hardd1 on Nov 16, 2012 11:27:39 GMT -5
keep in mind the old saying...."you get what you pay for" Znen built scoots are definitely better
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Post by waterboysh on Nov 17, 2012 0:37:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I only plan on riding it around town, to and from work (assuming I can find a job), and to and from school. A few miles a day, on roads where the highest speed limit is 40 mph. Not really any pleasure riding.
I'm still in the planning phase, but hopefully I'll be ordering one Monday. I'll definitely update y'all with how it goes.
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