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Post by operascootah on Jun 20, 2012 13:50:04 GMT -5
Hi all, scooter newbie here, having an issue and need some help from the experts.
I own a 2002 Honda Metropolitan (CHF50) 50cc Scooter. It has 2,500 miles on it and the previous owner had it garaged most of the time. All in all, its a like new scooter.
The issue is this - When the scooter is warmed up she runs like a dream, clean and powerful. However, when I start it up either in the morning or after a day of work I have to run the engine on the battery (or hold down the start button) for a solid 5 minutes until it will even rev, let alone get to full power and start moving.
I had a mechanic rebuild the carb, replace the air filter, and replace the spark plug. In this time, he discovered what he thinks is a faulty "Throttle Sensor." So my question is this, does that sound like the correct diagnosis? Would that issue cause this problem?
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Post by jonglauser on Jun 20, 2012 14:38:54 GMT -5
I don't know anything directly about Hondas.. but if I assume it's similar to a GY6, there is no "Throttle sensor". Only because I read that as some kind of electronic device. My guess would be in the area of the auto-choke/enricher.
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Post by wile on Jun 20, 2012 14:50:20 GMT -5
Are you saying it has an EFI system and not a CARB? If it has a CARB then the mechanic doesn't know what he is talking about(sorry to say). The carbs probably has an ENRICHER which feeds extra fuel for cold starts. It is the BLACK part along the Carb it has two wire coming from it. It is held by two screws take it off and see if the PLUNGER is EXTENDED OUT. It should be by DEFAULT WHEN COLD RECTRACTED to feed extra fuel for cold starts. If it is EXTENDED out that is your problem and needs to be replaced or it just might be stuck in the hole and not retracting after you shut the motor off and it cools down. Here is a picture of the Carb that probably looks like yours IF YOURS HAS A REGULAR CARB ON IT and NOT an EFI system. Wile  This is what your looking for: When you take off the ENRICHER if it looks like this PLUNGER RETRACTED it is OK and should be feeding extra fuel for cold starts:  If on the other hand when you take it off COLD and it looks like this the PLUNGER IS EXTENDED then that is your problem: It may be stuck you can try and push on the plunger and see if it retracts and STAYS RETRACTED if not it is BAD.  |
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Post by Bintelli - Jason on Jun 20, 2012 15:13:21 GMT -5
Hello,
The part number for the TPS is 37890-GET-003
That could very well be the issue you are describing.
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Post by waterjunk on Jun 20, 2012 15:55:02 GMT -5
If the TPS sensor is your problem, you will need to reset your ECM after replacing.
After a quick google search it seems with a bad TPS the bike will run poorly even after warming up.
This would lead me to believe it's time to reshim your valves. If you have mechanical aptitude and some patience you can do this at home. Otherwise I would find a reputable HONDA mechanic (not a garage one) and not a chinese one and have them done professionally.
Check the simple thing's first ( like the auto enricher mentioned above ) but with the symptoms you describe I think it's just time for maintanence.
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Post by wile on Jun 20, 2012 16:14:33 GMT -5
Well you learn something new everyday, My bad some of Hondas do have a TPS on the Carbs. So it could be either or, the TPS or the ENRICHER I guess.
Wile
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Post by jeffery5568 on Jun 20, 2012 19:09:00 GMT -5
I had a zx9r with carbs and it had a tps. Older hybusas have a choke but are fuel injected.
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Post by operascootah on Jun 21, 2012 0:22:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the help so far all. The scooter does have a carb, here is a diagram of the carb in my CHF50 www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Scooter/2002/CHF50+A/CARBURETOR/parts.htmlI have already ordered the TPS, or 37890-GET-003. I was hoping to confirm that this was in fact the issue. As for the ENRICHER, I would also be willing to investigate but can't find this anywhere on the diagram on the link above, and my carb does not look like the picture posted above. Can you clarify, or point it out on the CHF50 carb diagram in the link? Some of these posts make me think the TPS is in fact the correct issue. The battery died again tonight so I'm getting really pissed about the problem... |
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Post by k1llsw1tch on Jun 21, 2012 3:36:11 GMT -5
Number 7 on the list is what you would need for the enricher
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Post by operascootah on Jun 22, 2012 12:33:02 GMT -5
One more question, still kept riding the scooter despite the issue. Now the battery drains within a few minutes an the scooter won't start at all, even with a brand new battery. Did I mess something else up by running the starter for so long every morning?
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Post by waterjunk on Jun 22, 2012 14:07:35 GMT -5
If i could recommend using a CHINESE enricher for that carb. If you order from honda I believe its a 45 dollar part. We sell them for 5 bux here in store.
For a chinese part the enricher is pretty dependable.
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Post by yensid77 on Jun 23, 2012 22:08:56 GMT -5
I hate TPS reports! Sorry it had to be said.
Sent from my iPod touch using ProBoards
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Post by mikells43 on Jun 24, 2012 20:15:40 GMT -5
hey guys I'm new here. i am having the same problem my my 08 metro.. i replaced the richer/leaner thing thats pictured above and no success, same problem happening. i have a TPS on order form boats.net. i was wondering if the OP got his going with the TPS? please let me know and ill keep u guys updated with my progress, the part is due here this week. it has baffled me. now it will barley start. it was a slow decline but now its not going to start good unless its warm. carb is cleaned, everything good but I'm betting its the TPS. thanks.
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Post by waterjunk on Jun 24, 2012 21:12:10 GMT -5
hey guys I'm new here. i am having the same problem my my 08 metro.. i replaced the richer/leaner thing thats pictured above and no success, same problem happening. i have a TPS on order form boats.net. i was wondering if the OP got his going with the TPS? please let me know and ill keep u guys updated with my progress, the part is due here this week. it has baffled me. now it will barley start. it was a slow decline but now its not going to start good unless its warm. carb is cleaned, everything good but I'm betting its the TPS. thanks. Give us ato little background info mike.. When is the last time the scooter has ran properly? How many miles on your odometer? Have you measured your fuel pump output?
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Post by mikells43 on Jun 25, 2012 13:20:36 GMT -5
about 6900 miles on it, its a 2008. and yes the fuel pump is pumping very well as supposed too. and it ran properly about 1 month ago (i ride daily), it started out it wouldn't idle on startup with cold starts then the last week or so it just crapped out and it has been a struggle to start it on cold starts.
i tried a new richer/leaner(choke shown in pic above if thats what its called). and that wasn't the problem. so the TPS is on order. everything else is great with the scooter ,carb is clean, everything good, no blown fuses, clean air cleaner. my uncle is a race car mechanic and he did a complete overhaul and looked everything over and his guess was the TPS to.
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Post by mikells43 on Jun 29, 2012 22:50:58 GMT -5
put new TPS in and no resolve. still wont start for crap. wont idle when cold. when warm runs great. HELP?  |
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Post by Shandu on Jun 30, 2012 12:53:58 GMT -5
Everyone with a problem, when was the last time your valves were checked/adjusted? They are a routine maintenance needed to run properly.
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Post by operascootah on Jul 2, 2012 15:10:14 GMT -5
So I replaced the TPS, and the ENRICHER. No result. No idea about the valves, but I suppose its the next thing to try.
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Post by mikells43 on Jul 4, 2012 13:23:06 GMT -5
did the same thing opera, email me at mikells43 at aim dot com. and maybe we can talk about this , its crazy. i may have to surrender and take it in to a "professional" ..
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Post by waterjunk on Jul 4, 2012 14:42:26 GMT -5
I would recommend letting a certified Honda shop do the Valve Adjustment. It will cost you a few bones but will be done right and in the end probably save you some trouble.
They are done using a basic equation and using pre-sized shims. However the shims can get expensive and having a good selection to have handy compounds that.
Either way GL to the both of you.
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