Not sure if piston and/or cylinder is bad.. ??

[rich5857]

I've been having trouble getting my scooter to start. Tried everything... So I took it to my dealer and he said it was probably a bad piston. I have the 44mm piston, 63cc scooter and the piston went bad once before and he installed a new one (the one in the pics below). It was smoking out of the valve on top of the valve cover, but it was white so i wasn't sure if it was just running rich maybe and not burning oil? Anyway, I took the engine apart and I can't really see any damage on the piston or rings. Here's some pics, what do you guys think? The only thing I notice is that the top of the piston isn't really flush with the walls of the cylinder all the way around. I don't know if that's normal... Also there is some wear on the cylinder wall, but again don't know if this is normal. Sorry, the pictures are kind of hard to see. It was out of focus if I got too close...

[timber]

I dont see anything OBVIOUS, but you said you have a 44 mm piston in a 63 cc engine, and the previous one went bad TOO?
Tells me whatever piston or kit you got both times is junk, or has the wrong parts because it is not normal for two pistons in a row to go bad.
Im assuming this is really a 49 cc engine you modified into a larger bore? If so, I feel this is one of the MAIN reasons why you'd have problems, changing the cyl and head to make it go faster and add more stress than the 49cc crank and engine was designed to handle.
If this is one of those "secret" 63's then this also follows my feeling above- the FACTORY installed it but it's STILL an engine designed for 49cc stresses with very little extra strength overhead.

[rich5857]

Apr 13, 2012 19:53:42 GMT -5 @timber said:

I dont see anything OBVIOUS, but you said you have a 44 mm piston in a 63 cc engine, and the previous one went bad TOO?
Tells me whatever piston or kit you got both times is junk, or has the wrong parts because it is not normal for two pistons in a row to go bad.
Im assuming this is really a 49 cc engine you modified into a larger bore? If so, I feel this is one of the MAIN reasons why you'd have problems, changing the cyl and head to make it go faster and add more stress than the 49cc crank and engine was designed to handle.
If this is one of those "secret" 63's then this also follows my feeling above- the FACTORY installed it but it's STILL an engine designed for 49cc stresses with very little extra strength overhead.

Yeah it came stock that way. I don't know if there is anything wrong with it... it just won't start easily. once i get it started it runs fine. valves are good, spark is good, its getting gas... it could be a carb issue, im still trying to get the right jetting and fuel/air mix... one thing i did notice is that after i tried starting it for a while there was a lot of gas in the tube coming from the air box into the carb.

people do big bore kits all the time, why is this any different?

[teddy554]

Hard to start is not a piston issue usually the valve should be adjusted that could cause it to be hard, also getting a cr7hix spark plug cost about 10 dollar but should help the scooter start better

[teddy554]

might need a new enricher

[rich5857]

Apr 13, 2012 20:06:52 GMT -5 teddy554 said:

Hard to start is not a piston issue usually the valve should be adjusted that could cause it to be hard, also getting a cr7hix spark plug cost about 10 dollar but should help the scooter start better

enricher's good. valve gap's good. irridium spark plug: check.

[rich5857]

what about the gap between the piston and the cylinder wall. Can you guys see that? And the wear on the cylinder wall?

[timber]

Apr 13, 2012 20:03:08 GMT -5 rich5857 said:

Yeah it came stock that way. I don't know if there is anything wrong with it... it just won't start easily. once i get it started it runs fine. valves are good, spark is good, its getting gas... it could be a carb issue, im still trying to get the right jetting and fuel/air mix... one thing i did notice is that after i tried starting it for a while there was a lot of gas in the tube coming from the air box into the carb.

But you posted that the previous piston was trashed;

"So I took it to my dealer and he said it was probably a bad piston. I have the 44mm piston, 63cc scooter and the piston went bad once before and he installed a new one"


I read that as; the first piston got trashed and had to be replaced (for whatever reason) and now the dealer is saying again it's "probably a bad piston" on the piston that was previously replaced, what does THAT suggest having TWO pistons go bad (assuming this one IS bad as the dealer said)?

In general on this topic- when you are tlaking about things like pistons, rings and cylinder bores, you are talking about THOUSANDTHS of an inch clearances, you aren't going to see this with the naked eye, but replacing the piston with one that is a little too large or small is going to cause issues, and you never know exactly WHAT you are getting in the aftermarket BB kits people buy.

people do big bore kits all the time, why is this any different?

People damage or blow their engines up all the time too by putting the wrong parts on, or parts that were not held to correct specs to match the rest, and the piston, head, head gasket and cylinder are especially critical components that have to be matched perfectly.

I know yours was installed at the factory and not an aftermarket kit, but... we're going to have a difference of opinions on things like BBK's, but think on this;

The 49 cc engine made in China is manufactured for a specific piston and cylinder- the 49 cc set, that means the bearings, crankshaft, rod etc are all designed to operate with that 49cc piston and it's matching cylinder and head.
It's a GIVEN that this being made in China you are not going to have much if any EXTRA what I'll call extra overhead strength built-in because not doing so saves money on castings costs, weight etc etc

If "you" go and start adding a whole new cylinder and piston to go from 49 cc to 80 or 90cc and you are adding a whole LOT MORE stress, rotational mass (the piston is larger) and faster rotational speed ( the idea of the BBK is to make it go FASTER usually)

NONE of those things are going to be good over time on that stock 49cc CRANK, ROD, BEARINGS or other components.

49 to 63 cc in your instance is not terrible, not as bad as 49 to the 100cc kit, but it's still going to shorten the life of the engine I feel significantly.

Just because the factory decided for whatever reason to stick on a 63 cc kit, it's STILL a 49 cc engine for the rest of it!

"The factory" doesn't always do things for kind reasons, usually it's a cost saving act they do, cutting corners and things, they probably did it due to customer complaints about lack of power and/or speed, figuring the vast majority of those customers are unlikely to put even 10k or 20k on the engine anyway, so if a small number of these engines malfunction or blow up they don't care since the short warrantee expired anyway.

[rivaling]

I put an 88 jet in my 63cc and although it runs a little rich, it is alot cooler. These 63cc's definitely need I'd say an 85 jet at the least.

[timber]

Apr 13, 2012 20:11:51 GMT -5 rich5857 said:

what about the gap between the piston and the cylinder wall. Can you guys see that? And the wear on the cylinder wall?

Cant see much of anything in those pics I'm afraid

The only thing I notice is that the top of the piston isn't really flush with the walls of the cylinder all the way around

Now that has me curious, are you talking about flush as in "TDC" where the top of the piston should be flush with the top of the bore? or something else entirely.
It may be normal for this design I don't know, but all engines Ive ever taken apart the pistons go right to the top of the bore, only thing I can think of that would cause it to go "short" is a rod that's too short or a cylinder head that's too long, but I would think you'd have major compression deficit there if that was the case.

What is/was the compression on the engine? it needs to be at least 100 PSI if it's not there's likely your problem and confirms what your dealer said about the piston possibly being bad.

[rich5857]

the factory doesn't always do things for kind reasons, usually it's a cost saving act they do, cutting corners and things, they probably did it due to customer complaints about lack of power and/or speed, figuring the vast majority of those customers are unlikely to put even 10k or 20k on the engine anyway, so if a small number of these engines malfunction or blow up they don't care since the short warrantee expired anyway.

OK so should i put a 49cc cylinder and piston in it? BTW I only have 1500 km on the bike.

[timber]

Apr 13, 2012 21:02:36 GMT -5 rich5857 said:

the factory doesn't always do things for kind reasons, usually it's a cost saving act they do, cutting corners and things, they probably did it due to customer complaints about lack of power and/or speed, figuring the vast majority of those customers are unlikely to put even 10k or 20k on the engine anyway, so if a small number of these engines malfunction or blow up they don't care since the short warrantee expired anyway.

OK so should i put a 49cc cylinder and piston in it? BTW I only have 1500 km on the bike.

I won't tell you what you should do rich, and others will chime in with what they think, if it was me, and my bike I would either put the parts meant to be in there, or if the original engine is giving me this much trouble with possibly two bad pistins, I'd replace it with a new one, if a slightly larger fit then I'd do that.
But this engine seems to me like it's got some kind of "problem" but as you can imagine it's SO difficult to "diagnose" and repair over the internet and I/we can only go by your words and what we think MIGHT be the issues.

We'll all have differing opinions and ideas on even those things!

I'm just reading how this has been apart with the first bad piston and again, and I 'm just getting vibes that it's been "messed with" by the dealer when replacing the first piston, and not in a good way.

1500km is nothing, you shouldnt be having problems, do you remember how the first bad piston LOOKED? what exactly was "wrong" with it? I think if it's running lean you will lilkely get it hot and melt a hole in it, crack it etc, the plug would look white.

[rich5857]

Now that has me curious, are you talking about flush as in where the top of the piston should be flush with the top of the bore? or something else entirely.
It may be normal for this design I don't know, but all engines Ive ever taken apart the pistons go right to the top of the bore, only thing I can think of that would cause it to go is a rod that's too short or a cylinder head that's too long, but I would think you'd have major compression deficit there if that was the case.

What is/was the compression on the engine? it needs to be at least 100 PSI if it's not there's likely your problem and confirms what your dealer said about the piston possibly being bad.

Well that's not what I was talking about, but now that you bring it up I don't think the piston is going all the way to the top of the bore. You can see in the fourth and fifth and last pictures, there is a heavy carbon deposit half a cm or so down from the top of the bore which suggests that the top of the piston is stopping short of the top of the bore.

What I was talking about is that there is a small gap, a mm or so, between the edge of the top of the piston and the cylinder wall.

I have not been able to check the compression. I can't find a 10mm adapter for my compression gauge. The dealer didn't do it either, he was pretty adamant that it was the piston.

[timber]

Apr 13, 2012 21:10:31 GMT -5 rich5857 said:

Now that has me curious, are you talking about flush as in where the top of the piston should be flush with the top of the bore? or something else entirely.
It may be normal for this design I don't know, but all engines Ive ever taken apart the pistons go right to the top of the bore, only thing I can think of that would cause it to go is a rod that's too short or a cylinder head that's too long, but I would think you'd have major compression deficit there if that was the case.

What is/was the compression on the engine? it needs to be at least 100 PSI if it's not there's likely your problem and confirms what your dealer said about the piston possibly being bad.

Well that's not what I was talking about, but now that you bring it up I don't think the piston is going all the way to the top of the bore. You can see in the fourth and fifth and last pictures, there is a heavy carbon deposit half a cm or so down from the top of the bore which suggests that the top of the piston is stopping short of the top of the bore.

What I was talking about is that there is a small gap, a mm or so, between the edge of the top of the piston and the cylinder wall.

I have not been able to check the compression. I can't find a 10mm adapter for my compression gauge. The dealer didn't do it either, he was pretty adamant that it was the piston.

I don't know if that gap is normal for this engine or not, someone else would know here, the carbon should normally be removed if the piston/cyl is going back into service.
Ok, the gap you speak of I would call a "bevel" (if angled) if not, then a gap, that should be normal if not excessive since the rings are what does the actual sealing.

You mentioned cylinder wear, normal wear is of course normal but you can't really tell by just looking unless there's scores and scratches, you would be able to tell if it's in specs by measuring it in two directions across the bore inside and comparing it to what the manual says the service spec range has to be.
If it doesn't fit that service spec range then it has more wear than allowable, but that's unlikely after ONLY 1500km unless it had some issues with oil not getting in well.

You really NEED to check the compression before assuming anything further, if it's only giving say 85 psi then you have a compression problem, a bad valve or seat, or too tight valve lash can lose compression too, so can a bad piston that leaks into the crank case due to wear or damaged rings.

In looking at the pics, I don't see you were running lean, and the top of the piston is not melted or damaged.
The carbon on the very upper few mm's of the cyl walls would be where the landing on the piston is, the rings stop just below that carbon which might give the impression the top landing of the piston is not going all the way up when it is.
If you have/had the piston in the bore when you looked, the top landing of the piston should probably be flush (unless these engines are different this way) with the cyl bore top- as in if you put a straight across it would touch the piston and bore top.

[rich5857]

I'm just reading how this has been apart with the first bad piston and again, and I 'm just getting vibes that it's been "messed with" by the dealer when replacing the first piston, and not in a good way.

Oh its been messed with alright haha. I've been messing with it for weeks. I bought this thing to save money and its turned into a time and money pit. But I have learned a lot about engines and enjoy working on it, so that's a plus I guess...

Most of what I have done personally is with the carburetor. I bought a new carb, put in an 85 main jet. it came with I think a size 30 pilot jet, which seams too small, but I was able to tune the A/F screw and get it to idle perfectly...

its running really rich though. Or if its a bad piston, it could be burning oil i guess.

*** I forgot to mention, I tried a size 40 pilot jet and it ran like crap.***

[rich5857]

I don't know if that gap is normal for this engine or not, someone else would know here, the carbon should normally be removed if the piston/cyl is going back into service.
Ok, the gap you speak of I would call a "bevel" (if angled) if not, then a gap, that should be normal if not excessive since the rings are what does the actual sealing.

You mentioned cylinder wear, normal wear is of course normal but you can't really tell by just looking unless there's scores and scratches, you would be able to tell if it's in specs by measuring it in two directions across the bore inside and comparing it to what the manual says the service spec range has to be.
If it doesn't fit that service spec range then it has more wear than allowable, but that's unlikely after ONLY 1500km unless it had some issues with oil not getting in well.

You really NEED to check the compression before assuming anything further, if it's only giving say 85 psi then you have a compression problem, a bad valve or seat, or too tight valve lash can lose compression too, so can a bad piston that leaks into the crank case due to wear or damaged rings.

OK, what you said about the rings doing the sealing makes sense. Well by what you've said, the piston and cylinder seam fine... Unless that gap at the top is not normal (between top of bore and top of piston). If that turns out to be normal, I might just try to put it back together and check compression. Do I need new gaskets? This black stuff is peeling off of them, not sure what it is... And I guess I should clean everything before I put it back together?

[timber]

Apr 13, 2012 21:21:21 GMT -5 rich5857 said:

I'm just reading how this has been apart with the first bad piston and again, and I 'm just getting vibes that it's been "messed with" by the dealer when replacing the first piston, and not in a good way.

Oh its been messed with alright haha. I've been messing with it for weeks. I bought this thing to save money and its turned into a time and money pit. But I have learned a lot about engines and enjoy working on it, so that's a plus I guess...

Most of what I have done personally is with the carburetor. I bought a new carb, put in an 85 main jet. it came with I think a size 30 pilot jet, which seams too small, but I was able to tune the A/F screw and get it to idle perfectly...

its running really rich though. Or if its a bad piston, it could be burning oil i guess.

I think the 30 idle might be too small, my 49 cc had a 30, I put in a 40 but will be putting in a 35. The main is 80 it was 78
It does seem to me it might be running rich and/or burning oil, but I don't know in these engines how the carbon SHOULD look if all is normal, to me it does seem to be darker, more carbon that I think it should be. but the 85 jet compared to my 80 seems to be about right.

With that all in mind, I'm leaning towards what the dealer said, either the piston, or possibly that cyl wear is greater than I can see. Putting another piston in there might not fix the problem, and wont if the bore is too worn.
Normally youd remove any cyl ridge and lightly hone the bore when you replace a piston, it' s possible that wasn't done the first time, or maybe too aggressively- taking too much out, a compression test will really give you a much clearer picture and you should aim to doing whatever you need to do or get for an adaptor to do that.

[timber]

Do I need new gaskets? This black stuff is peeling off of them, not sure what it is... And I guess I should clean everything before I put it back together?

Yeah I wouldnt try using the old head gasket and gaskets, the head gasket is extremely important and it takes almost nothing to lose compression if there's any damage to it.
I dont know what the black stuff is, maybe they used some kind of RTv sealer or gasket shellac the first time.
ABSOLUTELY clean everything, when I work on an engine apart like this, I try to practice near surgery room cleanliness, rinse, blow with compressed air and get rid of any and all dirt, especially grit of any kind, old grease, oil, gasket remanants etc.

Do not use metal scrapers etc to remove the carbon from the piston/cyl, you do not want to cause any scratches! Treat the inside of the cyl and the piston as carefully and gently as though you were removing sand from your eye, it's very easy to scratch the cyl wall and that's a bad deal

You might find a plastic scraper or the like, NAPA might have something suitable or made for removing the carbon. You don't have to remove every particle of carbon, just get the worst off.

I've used motor assembly grease, but you can carefully wipe on a small amount of clean engine oil on the cyl walls and piston skirt so it has some on it to start with.

This video and related might explain some of the mysteries of measuing the cyl bore, out of roundness, taper etc., as you can see it's pretty involved, you need a tool to measure with, and it's very critical all be correct and within service limits.
You may have to forego that if you dont have calipers and so forth, but the compression test will tell you IF there is a problem with the compression being too low or leaking.

[rich5857]

With that all in mind, I'm leaning towards what the dealer said, either the piston, or possibly that cyl wear is greater than I can see. Putting another piston in there might not fix the problem, and wont if the bore is too worn.
Normally youd remove any cyl ridge and lightly hone the bore when you replace a piston, it' s possible that wasn't done the first time, or maybe too aggressively- taking too much out, a compression test will really give you a much clearer picture and you should aim to doing whatever you need to do or get for an adaptor to do that.

OK, lets say I get a whole new cylinder and piston. what do I need to do to install it? I'm not sure what you mean by removing cylinder ridge and hone the bore... Is that necessary for a new cylinder and piston?

[timber]

Apr 13, 2012 21:48:38 GMT -5 rich5857 said:

With that all in mind, I'm leaning towards what the dealer said, either the piston, or possibly that cyl wear is greater than I can see. Putting another piston in there might not fix the problem, and wont if the bore is too worn.
Normally youd remove any cyl ridge and lightly hone the bore when you replace a piston, it' s possible that wasn't done the first time, or maybe too aggressively- taking too much out, a compression test will really give you a much clearer picture and you should aim to doing whatever you need to do or get for an adaptor to do that.

OK, lets say I get a whole new cylinder and piston. what do I need to do to install it? I'm not sure what you mean by removing cylinder ridge and hone the bore... Is that necessary for a new cylinder and piston?

I believe if you get the set- piston , cyl etc it should be ready to go and not need anything done to it, it's when you have an engine with some wear on it and the cyl bore is all smooth and shiny from wear, and you replace the piston, you need to hone the cylinder to get rid of the "glazing" and put in some cross-hatching so it will break in the new piston and rings properly.

It's easily done with a little 3 stone thing you chuck up to an electric drill, a little oil and you turn the drill on and go down and then up and the stones leave tiny scratches in a diagonal cross hatch pattern. The scratches are minute and held hold the oil, they wear down during the break-in process and become smooth.
You should not need that with a new cyl/piston.
I don't know what you will need for this, other than the basic tools, and of course the correct gasket for the bottom of the cyl where it meets the case.
A torque wrench is a great idea to set the correct torque.

Other than that it SHOULD be a simple install, but you may have some difficulty with getting the rings started into the cyl. Normally one would use a ring compression sleeve on a car engine- it's just a sheet metal sleeve that tightens around the piston and the rings and makes it easy to slide the piston in, but our scoot engines have the rod attached to the crank- it doesn't come off as do those in car engines, so you are sliding the cyl OVER the piston rather than the piston into the cyl.
Ive seen a youtube video, search for it and it will show you how.

You also must install the rings properly! not only in the correct order but the correct side UP and rotated from one another so the gaps are not near one another.

I have a Haines book, let me see what it says about installing the piston.

[timber]

The piston should be marked which way it goes in, you may not need anything special for the rings to get them in the cyl, but having a helper hold the cyl while you carefully work the rings in would be nice.

[rich5857]

The piston should be marked which way it goes in, you may not need anything special for the rings to get them in the cyl, but having a helper hold the cyl while you carefully work the rings in would be nice.

Yeah I'm definitely going to just get a new cylinder and piston. All that sounds way too complicated for me. Can you explain setting the torque a little more? And when you say the piston should be marked with which way it goes in, do you mean which way it attaches to the rod?

[skuttadawg]

I had two pistons crack in my TaoTao ATM 50 and told my dealer I did not want another POS piston and put this on instead and it NEVER cracked www.mhr-usa.com/70cc-scooter-moped-cylinder-kits/50mm/ I have had tons of mopeds , scooters and motorcycles and never once had a piston crack . Look into getting a Taiwan made piston kit

[timber]

Apr 13, 2012 22:21:45 GMT -5 rich5857 said:

The piston should be marked which way it goes in, you may not need anything special for the rings to get them in the cyl, but having a helper hold the cyl while you carefully work the rings in would be nice.

Yeah I'm definitely going to just get a new cylinder and piston. All that sounds way too complicated for me. Can you explain setting the torque a little more? And when you say the piston should be marked with which way it goes in, do you mean which way it attaches to the rod?

Yes, it can be complicated, but then engines aren't toys, there's a lot of precision in there that is easy to forget about or ignore, and when parts fit to thousandths of an inch tolerances, they have to be right!

Long story shorter- a friend rebuilt his '65 ford truck engine from the block up, new oversized pistons, block bored out 0.30 over, new cam, bearings, the works, he's done this plenty of times, he got it all together and fired it up okay.
He drove down the road to test drive it, and blew the engine!
I helped him tear the engine down, it was destroyed, a total loss.

Turned out NAPA had given him the WRONG valve pushrods, they were a tiny bit too LONG, what happened was one of them bottomed out it's mating hydraulic lifter and it exploded- sending chunks of metal into the oil, bearings etc and it broke a thin part of the block itself off at the bottom of it's little bore.
It really sinks home how perfect and correct every part in the engine has to be, in his case the lifter rods were too long but not so much so you could tell by LOOKING at them, they could have been just a few thousandths of an inch longer, that's all it took to destroy the engine and a loss of about $2500 in parts and machine shop...

The torque tightness you set the bolts to, the foot pounds, it's best to go by what the manual says the torque should be- not less, not more, but if you don't have a torque wrench or someone who does you can borrow one from you'll have to guess at it and hope for best.
If you don't have it tight enough that can cause one issue, and too tight can break a bolt or strip it, or leave it nearly there.

Yes, the direction the piston goes on in relation to the rod, it only can go in two ways, one is the right way and the other is the wrong way, the NEW piston should have something stamped or otherwise marked on it showing it, maybe a notch or an arrow. It's been a while and I'm not sure on these engines, but I believe the mark/notch/arrow/whatever it has goes towards the intake.
Someone else here can confirm or correct that.

[timber]

Apr 13, 2012 22:38:30 GMT -5 skuttadawg said:

I had two pistons crack in my TaoTao ATM 50

I read there was that problem a year or two back and it was fixed.

[teddy554]

i put a 149.00 47mm bbk on my scooter year and half and still running fine ride it every day i was like you never done it and had no real experience with scooter i follow this step by step process and now i put all the bbk on for my friends and you can to \\-olf is giving good advice but is making it sound more difficult then it really is. buy a kit, you get almost everything you need in a kit might have to buy intake and exhaust studs separate. they are cheap kits and expensive kits, 72cc (47mm) 85cc(50mm) 95cc(52mm) so you have some decision to make on pricing and size
49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=4ttech&action=display&thread=350

[teddy554]

this link is to a bunch of how tos for your scooter
49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=4ttech

[timber]

Apr 14, 2012 3:52:57 GMT -5 teddy554 said:

\\-olf is giving good advice but is making it sound more difficult then it really is. buy a kit, you get almost everything you need in a kit might have to buy intake and exhaust studs separate.

I didn't try to make it sound too difficult, and some of what I said was for those who are just replacing the PISTON alone for whatever reason and re-using the existing cylinder.
On these engines the cylinder comes right off and can be replaced easily, but on a car engine (except the old air cooled VW) you don't have that option- the cylinders are integral with the block!

If you get the ASSEMBLY (piston, rings, gaskets, cylinder, head with valves) as a set, it's the easiest/cheapest way to go.

I mentioned all the measuring of the bore, taper, out of roundness etc also to emphasize how critical it is everything be absolutely CORRECT and matched.

Also, while you have the head off, I would check the rod bearing by pulling and pushing it up and down against the crank with the crank stationary to feel for any loose play, you shouldn't feel a "gap" like play when you do that, especially with only 1500km, but it's a good idea to at least see how it feels- that's another part that's critical it be correct and good.

I personally would stay away from major drastic change BBK's as per going from 49cc to 90cc on an engine designed for 49cc, 49 to 63 I guess is not a big deal or very drastic, but we'll have differences of opinions on that aspect and it's not my engine I'll have to tear down in the future if there's a failure due to overstress.

[rich5857]

Thanks everyone for the advice. That's a good link Teddy, and Olf thanks for all your help.

I'm thinking about getting a BBK kit. There's a 50mm kit on ebay here: www.ebay.com/itm/100cc-Big-Bore-Kit-Performance-Power-Pack-Gy6-50cc-QMB139-Chinese-Scooter-Parts-/160783318581?_trksid=m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7717191337396900724#ht_602wt_1163

It looks like it has just about everything I would need. But not sure about quality... Any kits you all would recommend?

[skuttadawg]

You would have less issues with a 72BBK or 80 crate engine