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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 0:08:22 GMT -5
Could it also be a bad fuse in the battery compartment in the plastic case?
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 22, 2012 0:08:33 GMT -5
If it is flooding, that means it is to rich. You would want to lean it out. I would do those 3 test and just report the results. Someone here will be able to make sense out of them. Like I said, you can check the plug and coil in there before you get a new one. You'll have to take the carb out of the bike to do any work on it like you are saying. Personally working on the carb would be my last resort after all other possible solutions have failed. Some people would suggest spraying small amounts of water or carb cleaner to reveal if the diaphragm is leaking (or anything else for that manner)
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 22, 2012 0:08:53 GMT -5
If it were a fuse, nothing would run most likely.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 0:33:19 GMT -5
If it is flooding, that means it is to rich. You would want to lean it out. I would do those 3 test and just report the results. Someone here will be able to make sense out of them. Like I said, you can check the plug and coil in there before you get a new one. You'll have to take the carb out of the bike to do any work on it like you are saying. Personally working on the carb would be my last resort after all other possible solutions have failed. Some people would suggest spraying small amounts of water or carb cleaner to reveal if the diaphragm is leaking (or anything else for that manner) I went ahead and ordered the orange ignition coil and NGK CR7HSA plug new off ebay. Should be here next week in the middle. I wouldn't know how to tell if it was making sparks like it's supposed to, and I just wanted to get the new parts so I can put them in. I'm REEEAALLY hoping the person who sold it to me got a new carb that has the ability to adjust it. It's an '09 scooter and I've heard you'd have to drill the cover off the A/F screw. So if he got a new carb, it should have access to the screw automatically. I hope so. He pointed the carb out to me when he sold it to me, and said it's new, and said it was shiny, and I saw it was shiny, so I'm hoping it is new, and think it is. I think it might have been kinda dirty after being in there for 3+ years because it's an '09. I just hope I can adjust the screw. And he said it's been adjusted and tuned already. When I adjust the A/F screw to make it more lean, I turn it to the left, correct? And how many turns do I make? I also noticed that the big tube on the carb (?) has duct tape wrapped around it. Could that be the issue? I don't know why it has tape around it. But I've attached a picture of the tube I'm talking about (85% sure this is the tube) The pic isn't of my engine, it's a completely random photo, just used it to show the tube.
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 22, 2012 0:39:49 GMT -5
I don't see the pic in this post. I also think I should point out he could have just cleaned the outside of the carb to make it look new. If the a/f screw is capped, and they have the screws glued/welded in at the bottom its a stock carb for sure and its real pain to get in it. Mine was like that and I just threw it out. If you can get to the A/F screw, it only changes the idle mixture. The procedure for adjusting it is somewhere on this forum if you search.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 1:16:24 GMT -5
Sorry. Here is the photo. It's the big tube on the right.
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 22, 2012 1:23:31 GMT -5
can you circle what you are talking about in MS paint or something. I don't see tape on the air intake tube which is what I thought you were talking about (on the right) Your fuel enricher is also unplugged. You did that right?
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 1:27:30 GMT -5
This isn't my scooter. This is a random photo on the internet of a different scooter, I just used this so I could show you what is taped. My scooter is different.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 1:28:41 GMT -5
And would getting a new cdi box help the electrical issue? Maybe a bad CDI box is causing some problems? I thought it was mentioned previously
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 22, 2012 1:30:15 GMT -5
It could. It controls the spark and the engine kill. But....I would very much like to see that part on your bike first. If that thing has a leak, it can cause some problems. Tape isn't really a good fix for it.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 1:40:06 GMT -5
It could. It controls the spark and the engine kill. But....I would very much like to see that part on your bike first. If that thing has a leak, it can cause some problems. Tape isn't really a good fix for it. You're saying that getting a new CDI box could fix the problem? Also could it be a bad stator that's causing the problem? And I'll take a photo of the tube tomorrow. What problem could that cause?
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 22, 2012 1:42:38 GMT -5
Turn the A/F screw clockwise to lean the mix, counter clock wise to richen. As a *start* it should be 2.5 turns out. Before you do any tweaking, turn it clockwise until it stops, and count the number of 1/4 turns. This is so you can return the screw to where you started if you mess up. Turn it back out to 2.5 turns and turn the screw until you get the highest idle. askit.mainelyscooters.com/how-to-adjust-a-50cc-250cc-cvk-carburetor/Don't worry about the duct tape as that tube is BEFORE the carb. You do have to worry about unfiltered air being sucked in, but it won't make much of a difference in it's running. Hundreds of things are possible. A CDI that overheats and cuts out is *possible* but unlikely as it is only running a few minutes. Greg
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 22, 2012 1:43:38 GMT -5
Could it also be a bad fuse in the battery compartment in the plastic case? No, or it wouldn't run. It could be an intermittent connection or a loose connection, but if it were so, the engine would not cut out at precisely the same point. I'm trying to determine if that's the case or if it is just coincidence. Greg
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 22, 2012 1:47:08 GMT -5
Turn the A/F screw clockwise to lean the mix, counter clock wise to richen. As a *start* it should be 2.5 turns out. Before you do any tweaking, turn it clockwise until it stops, and count the number of 1/4 turns. This is so you can return the screw to where you started if you mess up. Turn it back out to 2.5 turns and turn the screw until you get the highest idle. askit.mainelyscooters.com/how-to-adjust-a-50cc-250cc-cvk-carburetor/Don't worry about the duct tape as that tube is BEFORE the carb. You do have to worry about unfiltered air being sucked in, but it won't make much of a difference in it's running. Hundreds of things are possible. A CDI that overheats and cuts out is *possible* but unlikely as it is only running a few minutes. Greg Anytime I have had a leak in that tube it has caused bogging and dying issues for me. I think its at least worth looking at. Worst case scenario just put some silicon on it.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 1:50:51 GMT -5
So could the problem be the stator?
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Post by armen444 on Jan 22, 2012 2:17:46 GMT -5
you problem with the lights etc. has to do with the "new ignition" you wired in, most likely its been wired incorrectly, also make sure there is no short in any of the wires, if so, that could be why the other battery died... your scooter bogging down after a minute can probably be your carb, check your float and make sure it is not getting stuck. also replacing or making sure your ignition coil is plugged in and has proper connection to the spark plug is a good idea, aswell as making sure your spark plug is sparky as for your stator, i highly doubt that is the problem unless your battery keeps dying on you.. FYI there are only so many times a battery can die on you untill you need a new one, by my count its 1 time, if your lucky maybe 2, lead sealed acid battery's dont like anything under 50% capacity so keep em charged My suggestions. Check all wiring for shorts/damaga Clean your carb and make sure its functioning properly Check all components of your ignition (CDI,Coil, Spark Plug) Play around with your ignition and make sure if its been wired in correctly thats all i could think of for now, untill all this is checked 100% and in working order i have no other ideas
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 2:36:04 GMT -5
you problem with the lights etc. has to do with the "new ignition" you wired in, most likely its been wired incorrectly, also make sure there is no short in any of the wires, if so, that could be why the other battery died... your scooter bogging down after a minute can probably be your carb, check your float and make sure it is not getting stuck. also replacing or making sure your ignition coil is plugged in and has proper connection to the spark plug is a good idea, aswell as making sure your spark plug is sparky as for your stator, i highly doubt that is the problem unless your battery keeps dying on you.. FYI there are only so many times a battery can die on you untill you need a new one, by my count its 1 time, if your lucky maybe 2, lead sealed acid battery's dont like anything under 50% capacity so keep em charged My suggestions. Check all wiring for shorts/damaga Clean your carb and make sure its functioning properly Check all components of your ignition (CDI,Coil, Spark Plug) Play around with your ignition and make sure if its been wired in correctly thats all i could think of for now, untill all this is checked 100% and in working order i have no other ideas The lights issue was a problem even before I put the new ignition in. It's the wiring, it's really freaky. I'll check the things you said tomorrow if I have time, if work doesn't run too late. Here are the things I have ordered from ebay: performance ignition coil: www.ebay.com/itm/280810145539?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2876wt_956NGK CR7HSA spark plug: www.ebay.com/itm/360416367321?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_500wt_1204CDI box: www.ebay.com/itm/160684590936?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2021wt_956and silicone sealant for sealing the tube that has tape on it. www.ebay.com/itm/150432300469?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2145wt_956Everything is brand new, and should be here on Wednesday and/or Thursday next week. I'll install those and see if it works. But I'll do the tests on the scooter and post the results tomorrow. Thanks for all the help If anyone can think of anything else I can do, please inform me.
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Post by armen444 on Jan 22, 2012 3:05:34 GMT -5
if there is a hole or crack on the tube that goes to your airbox, dont be afraid to use duct tape or electric tape so seal that up its not a high temperature area or anything you should take precautions of
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 10:43:11 GMT -5
Well after charging the battery all the way last night, I came out this morning and the battery was just about completely dead. Couldn't get it to start, was making a really wimpy turning over sound.
What's up with that? Is this problem related to why it's cutting off when riding?
I checked the wires and didn't see any obvious issues. Though when I put the front cover on, it pinched a wire running to the top handle bars, and I think it's exposed a little, or maybe that was there the whole time, but I'm not sure.
All I know is I have been having issues with the batteries dying since I got it, and it's been cutting off. Something isn't right.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 11:10:29 GMT -5
And if I took it to a scooter place that charged, lets say $75 an hour to fix scooters, and considering my problems with the scooter, how much would it cost to fix it and what would they need to do?
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Post by johnwarfin on Jan 22, 2012 11:31:26 GMT -5
The CR7HSA is has a resistor which dampens any electrical interference. It's not "necessary" on these scooters but for the price there's no reason not to get one. Some scooters are sensitive to electronic interference and benefit from it. Greg i think you might have it backwards greg. resistor plugs and carbon wires are not to avoid interference TO the scooter but reduce any CAUSED by the scooter. radios, gps, etc.. scooters are not sensitive to emf but their ignitions can be noisy.
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 22, 2012 11:33:46 GMT -5
If the wiring is incorrect something could just always be draining the battery. It could also have already gone bad like he said. A pinched wire is not a good thing. But if its still intact thats probably not the issue. As far as a mechanic, it depends on how good the mechanic is. I have a very good one, he normally takes a hit on parts when he orders them, and will reduce his labor charge if it ends up being a large job. However thats the opposite of most mechanics I have dealt with. You could take it in and spend 75, he could try to replace a lot of unnecessary stuff and stick you several hundred. If it were me, I would weigh what I have already spent on that one, and what it could potentially cost to fix it. You can get a good used gy6 this time of year for around 450, or a new one for 600 or 700 ( at least where I live). If at any point doing this you decide you will HAVE to take it to a mech, you may want to consider selling this one, and just buying one thats a little more reliable to begin with. That being said, I think if you do everything that has been said on this thread, you will find the problem and fix it.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 22, 2012 16:48:38 GMT -5
i think you might have it backwards greg. resistor plugs and carbon wires are not to avoid interference TO the scooter but reduce any CAUSED by the scooter. radios, gps, etc.. scooters are not sensitive to emf but their ignitions can be noisy. No, I was referring to the CDI being susceptible to EFI interference, which it is, sometimes. Perhaps I wasn't clear in stating that the spark plug is creating the interference, hence the requirement for the Resistor in some instances. Greg
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 18:13:21 GMT -5
Just an update: I went out this morning and the battery was dead, like I said. So I know that the wiring is messed up really bad and is very freaky, so some power is on and drains the battery, so I'll have to take it out the scooter whenever I'm not using it to prevent it from dying, and I'll put it on the battery tender I have, which it's on now. I charged the battery today, put it in, and all I did was start it a few times, let it idle, turned the throttle to do a test, just some trouble shooting, maybe about an hour or so, maybe more, maybe less, of using the battery, and I took it for a ride (which I'll get to in a minute). It died like it did before, and when I tried to start it, the battery was dead, so something is really using the battery which might be why it's cutting off? something to do with the wiring, I'm almost certain. But I was standing with my legs on both sides of it, just got off the seat, wasn't on the kick stand, and I wasn't holding the handle bars (stupid move) and it fell over on the right side. I tried to power it on, but it didn't turn on, no lights or anything. I looked in the battery compartment, and the fuse broke, so I went across to my neighbors house and he gave me one, (nice person), I put it in and then it powered on, but when I tried to turn it over, it didn't do Anything. So after playing with it trying to find out what was wrong, I saw that that tube going into the carburetor was off, just hanging off, so I out it back on and tightened the clamp, so it's on tight now, I don't know if it was like that before. But I tried to start it and it still wouldn't make a single noise. So again, after playing for a while, I started checking the wires with hands and eyes, and I found the kill switch wires going to it, and I just pushed them toward the kill switch, and now it turns over. So those cables were knocked loose when it fell over. So now it's back to normal. But here are the tests I did: First, I checked the wires. Nothing looked obviously wrong, but then again I don't know what's right and what's wrong. I did see one plug that I think has 6 pins, and it has another plastic plug connected to it, but it doesn't go anywhere, it just has a yellow wire going in the back in two spots, but it's the same wire, like a loop, I don't know what that's about or if it's right. Also under my seat, there are some wires connected in a white connecter plug, which isn't connected to anything, and I didn't see anything it should connect to. That was one (sort of a) test Also I put it on the center stand and turned the throttle and acted as if I were on the road doing what I normally do when it cuts off. I turned the throttle (while on the center stand) leg go of the throttle, pressed the breaks, turned the handles and wobbled them around, then straightened them up, turned the acceleration up and left it for about 10 seconds, then tapped the brakes and wobbled the handle bars all the way to the sides, and then kept doing that and it didn't cut off. For some reason I thought that fixing the tube going to the carburetor fixed the issue, but it didn't, because when I took it for a ride, on the third turn in the exact same spot, it cut off like it always has. So I walked it home, and tried to start it again, and the battery was dead ( ) I had just charged it all the way about an hour or so before that. I don't know how it died. It's not a cheap battery. It's a BikeMaster battery with the TruGel Nano Technology (don't know what it does, but it appears to be better than other batteries (?)) So the battery is on the battery tender again, Yes again. I'm beginning to think that when I get the ignition coil and spark plug, it won't fix any of the issues. Am I wrong? And what about when I get the new CDI box, will that fix any issues? More importantly, the battery dying issue and maybe the cutting off issue?
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 18:23:07 GMT -5
Just an update: I went out this morning and the battery was dead, like I said. So I know that the wiring is messed up really bad and is very freaky, so some power is on and drains the battery, so I'll have to take it out the scooter whenever I'm not using it to prevent it from dying, and I'll put it on the battery tender I have, which it's on now. I charged the battery today, put it in, and all I did was start it a few times, let it idle, turned the throttle to do a test, just some trouble shooting, maybe about an hour or so, maybe more, maybe less, of using the battery, and I took it for a ride (which I'll get to in a minute). It died like it did before, and when I tried to start it, the battery was dead, so something is really using the battery which might be why it's cutting off? something to do with the wiring, I'm almost certain. But I was standing with my legs on both sides of it, just got off the seat, wasn't on the kick stand, and I wasn't holding the handle bars (stupid move) and it fell over on the right side. I tried to power it on, but it didn't turn on, no lights or anything. I looked in the battery compartment, and the fuse broke, so I went across to my neighbors house and he gave me one, (nice person), I put it in and then it powered on, but when I tried to turn it over, it didn't do Anything. So after playing with it trying to find out what was wrong, I saw that that tube going into the carburetor was off, just hanging off, so I out it back on and tightened the clamp, so it's on tight now, I don't know if it was like that before. But I tried to start it and it still wouldn't make a single noise. So again, after playing for a while, I started checking the wires with hands and eyes, and I found the kill switch wires going to it, and I just pushed them toward the kill switch, and now it turns over. So those cables were knocked loose when it fell over. So now it's back to normal. But here are the tests I did: First, I checked the wires. Nothing looked obviously wrong, but then again I don't know what's right and what's wrong. I did see one plug that I think has 6 pins, and it has another plastic plug connected to it, but it doesn't go anywhere, it just has a yellow wire going in the back in two spots, but it's the same wire, like a loop, I don't know what that's about or if it's right. Also under my seat, there are some wires connected in a white connecter plug, which isn't connected to anything, and I didn't see anything it should connect to. That was one (sort of a) test Also I put it on the center stand and turned the throttle and acted as if I were on the road doing what I normally do when it cuts off. I turned the throttle (while on the center stand) leg go of the throttle, pressed the breaks, turned the handles and wobbled them around, then straightened them up, turned the acceleration up and left it for about 10 seconds, then tapped the brakes and wobbled the handle bars all the way to the sides, and then kept doing that and it didn't cut off. For some reason I thought that fixing the tube going to the carburetor fixed the issue, but it didn't, because when I took it for a ride, on the third turn in the exact same spot, it cut off like it always has. So I walked it home, and tried to start it again, and the battery was dead ( ) I had just charged it all the way about an hour or so before that. I don't know how it died. It's not a cheap battery. It's a BikeMaster battery with the TruGel Nano Technology (don't know what it does, but it appears to be better than other batteries (?)) So the battery is on the battery tender again, Yes again. I'm beginning to think that when I get the ignition coil and spark plug, it won't fix any of the issues. Am I wrong? And what about when I get the new CDI box, will that fix any issues? More importantly, the battery dying issue and maybe the cutting off issue? And unfortunately, I didn't get to bring my (nice expensive DSLR) camera out to take any photos, it's been raining and wet and freezing cold, but here is what I'll try to do tomorrow if I don't work or if I have enough time before/after work: I'm gonna take some photos of the wiring and that tube running to the carb with the tape. I'm also going to take it for a ride and before the third turn, I'm gonna stop and wait for about 30 seconds before I even turn the handle bars to turn. Once I do that above test, what happens if it lets me ride after waiting 30 seconds, and what happens if it still cuts off before I turn and what happens if it still cuts off after waiting 30 seconds and then turn? That's all I can think of for now. I'll get to the multimeter part as soon as I can though, because I don't have one, my neighbor does, and I've been bothering him with my scooter for a loong time, back when I first got my first one in July last year, he needs some kind of break, but if I still need to check the wires with the multimeter, then I will ask him asap, he said when it's warm, it looks like all next week will be warm What do I do now?
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 22, 2012 18:40:43 GMT -5
Could be that the battery has kicked the bucket. Could be that something is draining it on the bike. Its hard to say. You'll have to take pictures of the loose plugs and wires you are talking about. Could certainly be part of the problem.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 22, 2012 19:30:35 GMT -5
>>> I did see one plug that I think has 6 pins, and it has another plastic plug connected to it, but it doesn't go anywhere, it just has a yellow wire going in the back in two spots, but it's the same wire, like a loop
That harness is normal. It's for the remote starter/alarm. The loop is the bypass to allow the scooter to start. If you have an alarm, that's all you need to do to bypass it, jumper those two wires.
>>> Also under my seat, there are some wires connected in a white connecter plug, which isn't connected to anything, and I didn't see anything it should connect to.
That connector is normal as well. It's an extra accessory plug to light the rear license plate light (or something like it) that they stopped including with these scooters.
So when you did the dry "test", it didn't stall. But when you did it again on the road, it stalled. I think there is something about the road that is causing the stall. Is it inclined?
Try doing this:
Remove the carb and the carb bowl. Hold it level and BLOW into the fuel inlet with your mouth while moving the float up and down, gently. It should completely cut off the airflow. If not, there is something wrong with the valve and it needs to be adjusted or cleaned.
Did you test the fuel flow from the petcock? Suck on the vacuum line to the petcock and watch the fuel flow through the line. It should come out in a stream. If it does, hook the vacuum line back to the carb (reassembled) and hit the starter. The fuel should flow in short spurts. If not, there is still something wrong with the petcock. or possibly the fuel filter.
When it stalled again, did it start right back up?
Greg
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 20:00:11 GMT -5
>>> I did see one plug that I think has 6 pins, and it has another plastic plug connected to it, but it doesn't go anywhere, it just has a yellow wire going in the back in two spots, but it's the same wire, like a loop That harness is normal. It's for the remote starter/alarm. The loop is the bypass to allow the scooter to start. If you have an alarm, that's all you need to do to bypass it, jumper those two wires. >>> Also under my seat, there are some wires connected in a white connecter plug, which isn't connected to anything, and I didn't see anything it should connect to. That connector is normal as well. It's an extra accessory plug to light the rear license plate light (or something like it) that they stopped including with these scooters. So when you did the dry "test", it didn't stall. But when you did it again on the road, it stalled. I think there is something about the road that is causing the stall. Is it inclined? Try doing this: Remove the carb and the carb bowl. Hold it level and BLOW into the fuel inlet with your mouth while moving the float up and down, gently. It should completely cut off the airflow. If not, there is something wrong with the valve and it needs to be adjusted or cleaned. Did you test the fuel flow from the petcock? Suck on the vacuum line to the petcock and watch the fuel flow through the line. It should come out in a stream. If it does, hook the vacuum line back to the carb (reassembled) and hit the starter. The fuel should flow in short spurts. If not, there is still something wrong with the petcock. or possibly the fuel filter. When it stalled again, did it start right back up? Greg That's good to know about the wires. And yes, when I did the "dry" test, it didn't stall, it only has ever done it on the road, and I've tried dry tests more than this one time, hasn't stalled. No, the road on my street isn't inclined, neither is the other path I took off my street, it's all perfectly flat and smooth. I wouldn't know where to begin with the carb and petcock/fuel pump testing. I don't know what a carb bowl is or a fuel inlet, or a float and how to move it up and down. Let alone how to clean a valve or adjust it. And no I didn't test the fuel flow from the petcock/fuel pump (whichever one it is). And I don't know which one is the vacuum line, and do I suck the petcock/fuel filter itself? or the tube that I would disconnect? Please be more clear on that. And no, it didn't start up this time, because the battery is dead, but it has before when the battery wasn't dead. Are you thinking it's a carb problem or a petcock/fuel pump problem and not an electrical problem? I ordered a new performance ignition coil and a new NGK CR7HSA spark plug, and also a new CDI box, will any of that fix the issue(s)?
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 21:30:03 GMT -5
One thing I'd like to know is if there is a possibility that the new CDI box will fix the electrical issue, or is there really actually a bad wiring issue. I don't know if a bad CDI box can make it seem like it has bad wiring and make the battery drain overnight or what.
Also will the new performance ignition coil and new spark plug fix this? Maybe those are bad, or one of them.
I still have no clue how to do the checks mainepeace mentioned about the carb and carb bowl and petcock/fuel pump things. If someone could show me a video or describe what to do and what the parts are so I can try.
And are you sure it's an issue with the carb or petcock/fuel pump? I'm unsure. I'm thinking it's electrical, which could explain it cutting off at the same time every time (?) and also that the battery is dying really fast somehow because power is still on when the key is out.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 22:27:03 GMT -5
I'd really like to get a performance air filter, but need to know the right mm diameter for the scooter. It's a Peace TPGS-808 150cc with a GY6 engine. Would it be a 42mm diameter? I'm unsure because there is a new carb, and if the carb has a different diameter, I would have no way of knowing, if it even did have a different diameter. So if I bought a 42mm Pod filter, would it fit? And would I take the air intake tube off and take out the whole air filter box and just put the pod filter on?
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