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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 19:28:18 GMT -5
SOLVED!!! Read post on 3rd page!!
I bought a 150cc Peace TPGS-808 (99% sure that's the model. I know it's a peace and that's the only one that looks exactly like mine) from someone mid January this year.
The person I bought it from has put new parts in it. Here is the list he gave me:
New head, cleaned the piston, put in new valves, new carburetor, new fuel pump, new CDI, new coil, and new spark plug.
Here is the issue. When I ride the scooter down the road, and stop at stop lights and make turns, after about a minute, it cuts off. It only does it at the exact same time every time. Heres the exact thing I do. Go down the road for about 5 seconds and turn left, then stop. let it idle and then I cross the road. I then make a left turn and go down the road for about 15 seconds, and stop, let it idle, and then turn right, and when I make that turn, it cuts off, every time in that exact spot. So I took it around my street a few times, rode a straight line for 15 seconds or so, then let go of the throttle while I turn, then go straight, turn around just like before, and then go forward about 15 seconds, make another turn to turn around, and it cuts off. What I mean by cutting off is when I turn the throttle to go it loses power, so it seems. I can start it up again. Before when I tried to start it, the battery was low, which is what I thought the problem, so when I tried to start it again, it would make a dying turning over sound. It had a dead battery. So the person I bought it from was nice and bought me some new parts, which included a new ignition (had a car ignition I believe, though it worked, it just wasn't working well), a brand new battery, and a voltage regulator. I installed everything today.
I noticed that when I tried to test the turn signals, I pressed left, and the front signals worked as they should, but the back ones did the opposite, left was right and right was left, that was before I put the new battery in, and when I put the new one in, now the whole tail light blinks, including the break light, even when I'm not tapping the break lever, just when I am flipping the turn signal switch left and right. But it didn't do that before. I had the old battery in there and it the whole tail light blinked, it was just after I installed the voltage regulator I believe, but now that I put the new battery in, the whole thing blinks, and it doesn't do the opposite like it did for that short time.
Also after putting the new ignition in and plugging it in, something freaky is happening. When I had the key to on and the kill switch in the on position, tried starting but it made No noise at all. The lights were on on the scooter, but it wasn't turning over. So after a while of playing with it, I turned the kill switch off and tried to start it, and it turned over, but wouldn't start. So I tried turning the kill switch ON while turning over and it started. Then I turned it off and started and it worked without doing that, but when I tried to start it again, I had to do that same method I mentioned first. And after installing the new parts, it still cut off at the same exact point on my street.
Could it be the wiring? I think the wiring might be some or all of the reason. Or a bad spark plug? What do I do?
Please help!
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Post by terrilee on Jan 21, 2012 19:36:57 GMT -5
i am NOT a mech
yes u have a electrical prob someone smarter than me will help u. and the dying part to me its sounds like its running to lean again, someone smarter than me will help you.
these {most} people are very nice and will help anyone. just dont argue with them--member they r trying w/o being there. sorta like helping someone with a crashed computer over the phone.---lmsao
dont freak out these things take time--especially electrical
good luck o btw just cause someone said they put new parts on dont mean it's true. or put them on right.
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 19:40:24 GMT -5
It sounds like a problem in the wiring, but it sounds like you could have maybe put the wrong kind of regulator. If it was me, I would put the old regulator on and see how it acts with the new battery in. If its still possessed, you have a wiring issue most likely. But I would check the regulator first. If its the harness, you will just have to take a multimeter and start testing points to narrow down where the problem is. Could be crossed wires, or a plug in the wrong spot. I discovered a few of those when I was working with my wiring. As far as the dying problem, thats a tricky one. Does it only do it when you turn right? If not it could be a plethora of things (enricher, spark plug, coil, stator, carb out of tune/plugged/ect) It seems in my experience these things like to die at low speeds sometimes by default, but your problem sounds a little beyond just that.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 21:35:26 GMT -5
It sounds like a problem in the wiring, but it sounds like you could have maybe put the wrong kind of regulator. If it was me, I would put the old regulator on and see how it acts with the new battery in. If its still possessed, you have a wiring issue most likely. But I would check the regulator first. If its the harness, you will just have to take a multimeter and start testing points to narrow down where the problem is. Could be crossed wires, or a plug in the wrong spot. I discovered a few of those when I was working with my wiring. As far as the dying problem, thats a tricky one. Does it only do it when you turn right? If not it could be a plethora of things (enricher, spark plug, coil, stator, carb out of tune/plugged/ect) It seems in my experience these things like to die at low speeds sometimes by default, but your problem sounds a little beyond just that. Thanks terrilee. And I don't think it's the wrong type of regulator. It did the same thing with the one it had in there before (the one it was made with) as it's doing now. And with the dying problem, it does it with left and right turns. But one thing is, is it seems to always do it on the third turn, or maybe it's a coincidence, maybe just the timing is the same as when I took it on the other street. that could be it. What should I do now? Should I adjust the A/F screw to make it more rich instead of too lean? The person I bought it from says that the adjustments were made to the carb. Should I still try to make it more rich? And also would trying a new spark plug work? I need to know what spark plug to get for this scooter. Like I said, what should I do or try now?
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 21:42:28 GMT -5
I've had a lot of problems with these things, but I have never heard of this. The spark plug most people here use is the ngk cr7hsa. You are probably right about the regulator then. Is the "third turn" any sharper than the previous two? It seems like maybe something is caught and getting tugged when you turn. My front headlight used to do that on one of my previous bikes. This really seems like an electrical issue though. A carb issue would not discriminate against turning, unless a vacuum or fuel line is getting pinched when you turn, but since those are located by the seat bucket that seems unlikely unless your seat is loose. I would open up the front panel of the scooter (the part with the headlight housing) and turn the wheel back and forth. See if you can find any loose or damaged connections. That seems as good a place as any to start.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 22:03:11 GMT -5
I've had a lot of problems with these things, but I have never heard of this. The spark plug most people here use is the ngk cr7hsa. You are probably right about the regulator then. Is the "third turn" any sharper than the previous two? It seems like maybe something is caught and getting tugged when you turn. My front headlight used to do that on one of my previous bikes. This really seems like an electrical issue though. A carb issue would not discriminate against turning, unless a vacuum or fuel line is getting pinched when you turn, but since those are located by the seat bucket that seems unlikely unless your seat is loose. I would open up the front panel of the scooter (the part with the headlight housing) and turn the wheel back and forth. See if you can find any loose or damaged connections. That seems as good a place as any to start. Is the NGK CR7HSA spark plug universal for all scooters? I've also head seen someone say to use the C7HSA, but that was on my TaoTao 50cc. I'm worried about this spark plug not working in my scooter, or getting the wrong one. Are you sure this spark plug will work with my scooter? And no, the third turn isn't sharper compared to the other 2. I am just thinking it's a timing coincidence. I'm really stuck on what to do. I bought this thinking it was working and it doesn't. But the person who sold it to me has been a great help. He didn't have to buy the parts to fix them. I know he spent a lot on them. Batteries and ignition sets are expensive. He's really nice. Any more help?
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 22:16:31 GMT -5
The CR7SHA works in pretty much every gy6 engine I have ever heard of. I am 99.9% sure it will work for your scooter. Chances are your 50cc had a smaller gy6, explaining the same plug. I would check your wiring, starting in the front. Since it does it turning, I am pretty certain its a wire getting pulled or damaged during turn. If you are not sure its because of the turn, take it to a nice long straight stretch, and see how long it runs going in a straight line. If it still dies, you may need to think about working on the carb. I don't think you have an internal engine problem, but I am not the highest expert on this board. I suppose it is a possibility your timing chain is off, but it seems like it wouldn't really run at all if that was the case. I had a similar experience with a used scooter, the guy was nice, but he sold me a clunker and he knew it...so I mean...nice people can still do bad things. If it were my bike, I would determine if the turning is causing it. Regardless though, I would start by inspecting the entire wiring system with a multimeter to make sure the right voltages are going the right places. If the harness is perfect, or fixing it doesnt fix the problem, I would put in a new ignition coil and a new plug (that is properly spaced). If that doesnt do it, I would read the plug, make sure it isn't rich or lean, and then take the carb out and make sure its clean and in good shape. Upjet it or downjet it if the plug read required it. If none of that finds the problem, I would probably swear a lot and then take it to a local shop to get a quote. I really think you just have a nasty electrical issue though. Its hard to say where, you will just have to take some time and check the whole harness.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 22:43:57 GMT -5
The CR7SHA works in pretty much every gy6 engine I have ever heard of. I am 99.9% sure it will work for your scooter. Chances are your 50cc had a smaller gy6, explaining the same plug. I would check your wiring, starting in the front. Since it does it turning, I am pretty certain its a wire getting pulled or damaged during turn. If you are not sure its because of the turn, take it to a nice long straight stretch, and see how long it runs going in a straight line. If it still dies, you may need to think about working on the carb. I don't think you have an internal engine problem, but I am not the highest expert on this board. I suppose it is a possibility your timing chain is off, but it seems like it wouldn't really run at all if that was the case. I had a similar experience with a used scooter, the guy was nice, but he sold me a clunker and he knew it...so I mean...nice people can still do bad things. If it were my bike, I would determine if the turning is causing it. Regardless though, I would start by inspecting the entire wiring system with a multimeter to make sure the right voltages are going the right places. If the harness is perfect, or fixing it doesnt fix the problem, I would put in a new ignition coil and a new plug (that is properly spaced). If that doesnt do it, I would read the plug, make sure it isn't rich or lean, and then take the carb out and make sure its clean and in good shape. Upjet it or downjet it if the plug read required it. If none of that finds the problem, I would probably swear a lot and then take it to a local shop to get a quote. I really think you just have a nasty electrical issue though. Its hard to say where, you will just have to take some time and check the whole harness. I wouldn't have a clue as to where to start with the wiring issue. I am not experienced with scooters, just know how to do Very basic things, and hardly that. The wiring issue is something I couldn't do. My neighbor has a multimeter, and he's been helping me with my scooter, but I don't know if even both of us could fix the wiring issue. I don't know where to start with it. Can you explain what to do and how to do it? Thanks. And I completely forgot. I have put it on the center stand and turned the throttle to make it go, and let it run for a while, but it lasted a lot longer than me being on it. I'm not sure if I tried turning the handle while letting it run though, I'll try tomorrow. I'll check for loose or damaged wires in the front area. Should I take photos of all the wires and post them? Would that let someone help me get the wiring right? I know something is very wrong with the wiring. Very freaky wiring. haha. Would the wiring explain the issue about starting with the kill switch off and having to turn the kill switch on while turning over for it to get it to start? And when you say new ignition coil and new plug, what are those parts, how much are they, and where are they on the scooter? And when you say new plug, you don't mean new spark plug, do you? I plan on buying a new spark plug tomorrow if I can.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 21, 2012 22:45:01 GMT -5
The C7HSA is the basic stock spark plug.
The CR7HSA is has a resistor which dampens any electrical interference. It's not "necessary" on these scooters but for the price there's no reason not to get one. Some scooters are sensitive to electronic interference and benefit from it.
Greg
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 21, 2012 22:50:34 GMT -5
So, it seems your scooter is shutting off when turning right.
When it shuts off, how does it sound? Like hitting the kill switch (immediate dead) or like running out of gas or power, slowly dying?
If it's immediate, I would check for an electrical issue.
Your tail blinkers are just plugged into the wrong sockets. Simple to switch.
The kill switch you probably have the wiring plugged into the wrong sockets. Double check that.
I'm sure it's something that you can diagnose with just a bit more patience and I do not have the feeling it's a huge issue.
Also, adjust the valves. .004" intake and .005" exhaust.
Greg
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 22:55:55 GMT -5
I'll try to answer each of your questions at a time.
Checking the wiring isn't necessarily hard. I would do it visually first. Just take all the body parts off and check all the connections, make sure there isn't any exposed/broken wires ect. If there isn't, you should use the multimeter and check the voltages going into the cdi box, and going out of it. If the harness is really messed up and incorrectly wired, it doesn't sound like you could fix it, you would probably have to take it somewhere. The wiring issue would explain the kill switch thing, but you could also have a bad cdi for that to happen. The coil is that long cord that plugs into the spark plug, and yes I meant a new spark plug. A coil would run you about 12 bucks on ebay. I wouldn't run it way to much on the stand since it is an air cooled engine it will overheat. Don't want to be a pessimist but its starting to sound like a bad wiring harness.
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 22:56:59 GMT -5
And by bad, I mean incorrectly installed.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 23:04:30 GMT -5
So, it seems your scooter is shutting off when turning right. When it shuts off, how does it sound? Like hitting the kill switch (immediate dead) or like running out of gas or power, slowly dying? If it's immediate, I would check for an electrical issue. Your tail blinkers are just plugged into the wrong sockets. Simple to switch. The kill switch you probably have the wiring plugged into the wrong sockets. Double check that. I'm sure it's something that you can diagnose with just a bit more patience and I do not have the feeling it's a huge issue. Also, adjust the valves. .004" intake and .005" exhaust. Greg It's done it when turning left too, on my straight street, the only direction I turn to go around is left, and it's also done it when turning right. So it does it on both left and right. I'll try to explain how it dies. When I ride it, and then turn and try to go straight, it just makes a dying sound, I'd say dies in 0.5-1.0 seconds. I don't know how to describe the dying sound. I do know that it sounds similar to my other scooter when I would hit the kill switch, for example when I turned the throttle up to go, and then hit the kill switch, it would make that same sound I think. But here is something else. Something I've noticed is after the third turn, it doesn't die right on the turn, it dies when I try to accelerate. If I don't accelerate, then it doesn't die I don't think, haven't tested that fully. But I do know that when I turn the throttle after I make the last turn, it makes dying sound and when I let go of the throttle, it idles, but then cuts off when I turn the throttle again, or that's what happened last night and another time I think. I don't know what the issue would be with that said. Does anyone else know? Is that still a cable being tugged? I'm 95% sure it doesn't die right after then turn, but rather when I accelerate After the turn.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 21, 2012 23:09:58 GMT -5
What is unique about the third turn? Is it the timeframe? Or the way you turn the handlebars? Try doing your "test" and waiting a good 30 seconds before the third turn. What about restarting after the stall and retrying the test? Same result?
I thought it could be the enricher, but that would only cause a fuel issue 2-3 minutes into the ride and go away after the scooter warmed up if it could be restarted. Same thing with a fuel flow issue. If you can restart it then it's probably not running out of fuel through a blocked line. Dying when accelerating could indicate a tear in the diaphragm or loose valves.
Greg
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 23:12:55 GMT -5
That almost sounds like its flooding the engine.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 21, 2012 23:14:25 GMT -5
I'd say that's a definite possibility if the needle valve is leaking.
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 23:15:50 GMT -5
Could it be an issue with the enricher wiring? Could be cutting in and out? Doesn't it have to have a charge to stay open? Edit: It could also be a bad spark too could it not?
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Post by Saber on Jan 21, 2012 23:17:51 GMT -5
With that last bit of information I would be looking at the fuel system and/or the carb. Almost sounds like it is flooding and when you go to accelerate it chokes out the engine. I would defiantly start removing variables. Put it on the center stand fire it up and rev to 3500 RPM's. While revved turn the handle bar hard right and then left. If nothing happens you can move on.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 23:21:28 GMT -5
I'll try to answer each of your questions at a time. Checking the wiring isn't necessarily hard. I would do it visually first. Just take all the body parts off and check all the connections, make sure there isn't any exposed/broken wires ect. If there isn't, you should use the multimeter and check the voltages going into the cdi box, and going out of it. If the harness is really messed up and incorrectly wired, it doesn't sound like you could fix it, you would probably have to take it somewhere. The wiring issue would explain the kill switch thing, but you could also have a bad cdi for that to happen. The coil is that long cord that plugs into the spark plug, and yes I meant a new spark plug. A coil would run you about 12 bucks on ebay. I wouldn't run it way to much on the stand since it is an air cooled engine it will overheat. Don't want to be a pessimist but its starting to sound like a bad wiring harness. Oh ok. I'll try to check the wires tomorrow. So if I got a new spark plug and installed that, could that possibly fix the issue? And should I order a new ignition coil too? And if I got them, would that fix the issue, does anyone think? Or is the root of the problem cutting off and everything in the bad wiring?
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 23:23:14 GMT -5
Its hard to say until you test some of it. Like someone else said, you'll have to eliminate some of the variables before you can get a definite answer.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 23:35:57 GMT -5
What is unique about the third turn? Is it the timeframe? Or the way you turn the handlebars? Try doing your "test" and waiting a good 30 seconds before the third turn. What about restarting after the stall and retrying the test? Same result? I thought it could be the enricher, but that would only cause a fuel issue 2-3 minutes into the ride and go away after the scooter warmed up if it could be restarted. Same thing with a fuel flow issue. If you can restart it then it's probably not running out of fuel through a blocked line. Dying when accelerating could indicate a tear in the diaphragm or loose valves. Greg The third turn is no different from the first and second. I am just thinking it's just the timing and it happens to be on the third turn, but it could also be that it happens because of turning, but I do know that the third turn is no different from the others. I'll try the "test" tomorrow. I'll go straight on my street, turn around twice, and then before the third turn, I'll stop and let it idle for 30 seconds, and then turn and I'll see what happens. I'll also try putting it on the center stand and turning the throttle a little bit and let it run for about a minute or so, and then I'll try turning the handles while turning the throttle to see if it still does it and look at the wires in the front to see what's happening.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 23:39:22 GMT -5
The engine is flooding? Needle valve is leaking? Where is the needle valve and is there a fix to it?
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 23:41:15 GMT -5
Could it be an issue with the enricher wiring? Could be cutting in and out? Doesn't it have to have a charge to stay open? Edit: It could also be a bad spark too could it not? I would also like answers to these questions. Does anyone think if I got a new spark plug, would that fix the problem? Maybe if I got a new spark plug and new ignition coil? Also if the diaphragm has a tear, should I buy another one and put it on? Where is it located and how do I put it on, and would that fix the issue?
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 23:44:14 GMT -5
You'll have to do one at a time to be sure. I would start with the cheapest/easiest solutions and see if it makes any difference. Its always hard to say "Well its for sure this" with this kind of symptoms.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 23:46:38 GMT -5
With that last bit of information I would be looking at the fuel system and/or the carb. Almost sounds like it is flooding and when you go to accelerate it chokes out the engine. I would defiantly start removing variables. Put it on the center stand fire it up and rev to 3500 RPM's. While revved turn the handle bar hard right and then left. If nothing happens you can move on. I'll try this tomorrow, though I can't see the RPM on my scooter. About how fast would that be in MPH? I can try to measure it that way. I guess it does sound like it's flooding. What do I do to fix that?
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 23:49:32 GMT -5
A lot of things can cause flooding. You are looking for a single concise solution where it is impossible to get one without physically inspecting the bike. It is electrical or carb. You will have to choose where to begin.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 21, 2012 23:55:00 GMT -5
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 23:58:02 GMT -5
I would get one of the orange ones. I have always had good luck with them. I can't tell you it will 100% for sure fix it. Its guess and check at this point. I suppose before spending the money, you could take the spark plug out, plug it back into the coil, and turn the bike over and see how well it sparks.
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Post by orphansoul on Jan 21, 2012 23:58:30 GMT -5
Just be very careful when doing that so you don't burn yourself/shock the crap out of yourself.
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Post by cameratester on Jan 22, 2012 0:03:36 GMT -5
A lot of things can cause flooding. You are looking for a single concise solution where it is impossible to get one without physically inspecting the bike. It is electrical or carb. You will have to choose where to begin. Here is what I could try, please tell me if I should try this and if it would work. I could get a new spark plug and new ignition coil and install those two. Would that possibly fix this whole problem? I could adjust the carburetor to make it more rich? Would that fix this whole problem? Maybe it's running too lean, right? Or wrong? I could buy a new diaphragm and install it (how to I check if it's torn and how do I install it?) Would that fix this problem? Here are some tests I can make: I could try checking the wires with the multimeter and check for breaks or exposed wires. (What would I do if I found something wrong?) I could ride down my street and make 2 turns and before the third, stop for 30 seconds, then turn and see what happens. (What would I do if it doesn't cut off after waiting for 30 seconds, and what would I do if it still did?) I could put on center stand and turn the throttle and move the handle bars hard left and right to see if it cuts off. (What would I do if it still cut off like when I ride it? What would I do if it didn't) What am I missing?
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