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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 5, 2011 18:03:11 GMT -5
When over to pick up my second scoot (new 2009 syn hd200) today from the Dealer. (about 20mi from my house). Slowly got the engine warm and started the hard break in. Ater a few accelerations notice the temp gauge going above the mid point. Continued one more and the gauge went a little higher. Then notice loss of power and gauge higher. Pulled over and shut off engine. Coolant boiled over in the radiator. I didn't hear the radiator fan on when I stopped. Fluid also was dripping on the ground under radiator. Don"t know if this was from the top or bottom of the radiator. Waited about five minutes and let the engine cool to just about mid point. Started back to the dealer.( I was about 6mi away). Rode about 40mph. Temp stayed about the same for about a mile. Then the temperature gauge dropped suddenly to half way between cold and mid point. The temp gauge stayed nice and cool the rest of the way back.....Any ideas....?
Air in the system when they put coolant In?
Radiator fan malfunction?
Thermostat malfunction?
Left it at the dealer to solve the mystery after talking with the mechanic and telling him the above story.
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Post by chaz12 on Nov 5, 2011 20:29:19 GMT -5
I would say it was air in the system... Attachments:
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 5, 2011 22:25:50 GMT -5
Sounds like the thermostat was stuck closed perhaps . I would ask if it has same coolant from factory or if they replaced it . If not I would do to have piece of mind thats coolant is not watered down . I am told automotive coolant will work as long as it says ok for aluminum engines . I went to CycleGear and motorcycle coolant thats premixed costs 15 to 25 bucks for a half gallon , yikes . I want to try the Cool Blue stuff . Someone here said it was good and with blue color would be easy to check level in the window in front of reservoir .
My fan comes on when its only a 3rd way up on temp gauge . The engine and exhaust air from fan do not seem to be hot only warm . If I putt around at 20 ( speed limit on campus ) the fan comes on since less airflow . Cruising it almost never comes on since its nice and cool here . Was coolant level low ?
Does it still run hot ? Might have been a fluke since new . I would think dealer would testride prior to selling . When I build a computer I do a 24hour burn it before I let my client get their pc .
I would also change the oil so you know it has some good instead of who knows what .
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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 6, 2011 7:31:29 GMT -5
If it was air in the system...why did it cool on the trip back to the dealer....u think when it boiled over the air came out?
I left it with dealer ....will pick it up in a couple of days...they are going out of the scooter business(just big motorcycles)...
This scoot had no fluids at all when I bought it...I test rode another they had on on the lot...they added the fluids at the dealer...
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Post by Globs on Nov 6, 2011 10:00:11 GMT -5
I have the same/almost the same engine, sounds like it wasn't bled properly to be. To bleed on it's own it needs a few journeys - also check the expansion tank level which will top-up the system when cooling.
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Post by sprocket on Nov 6, 2011 13:36:10 GMT -5
Maybe a hard breaking is a poor idea?
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Post by Globs on Nov 6, 2011 14:55:47 GMT -5
Maybe a hard breaking is a poor idea? No, I did a hard break in with my Sym 200 (same engine) and it was fine. The highest temp. I get on my gauge is in traffic - crawls all the way to half then, usually on a hard run it's at a quarter. If you do not do a hard break in you get ring blow-by, which reduces power, contaminates the oil, wastes fuel and causes heat build up (from the blow-by) risking scored bores. |
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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 15, 2011 9:27:13 GMT -5
Well, I took the scoot back to the dealer...the dealer wanted to give me a 2009 silver sym hd200 instead...so I said ok....
20mile from the dealer the silver scoot overheats as I pull up in my driveway...coolant all over the driveway etc...
today I went over the scoot to determine the problem....opened the panels, drained the coolant and replaced with new coolant, warmed the engine up and the water pump was working, after a few minutes the thermostat opened and the return hose got warm...added more coolant and drained the air from the system...
the engine continued to heat up but the temp gauge I determined is not working well,...it never got over half way up but the engine was definitely heating up...
The radiator fan never came on....so I tested the fan by bypassing the temp. switch....fan worked fine but the thermo switch had to be bad....I connected the two wires from the switch so now the fan works whenever the key is on....
Scoot seems to be working ok now...
Should i just leave it like this or try to replace the thermo switch if I can find one?....
Is there a way to test the temp switch with a meter?
Will having the fan on all the time drain the battery?
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 15, 2011 10:02:25 GMT -5
Replace it . Running all the time will pull power . Or you could bypass it with a toggle switch to manually turn fan off and on . I know one can test a thermostat with a glass off hot water and thermometer might work for the switch too perhaps . Since its cool outside it should not be running hot . If it does now will only be worse in summer .
Did you check the oil level ?
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Post by dyoung1167 on Nov 15, 2011 10:29:18 GMT -5
it seems that you have already proved the temp switch is bad. i don't know how much current the fan pulls but it is more likely not designed for continuous duty so the bearings would probably go bad prematurely. you could do what skuttadawg suggested, but why not explain your findings to the dealer, give a demonstration if needed and try to get the two parts (gauge and switch) replaced without additional money from your pocket first?
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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 15, 2011 20:18:39 GMT -5
I hooked the switch back up....flushed the coolant again, change engine and gear oil....will test the whole thing in the next day or two....see if she overheats
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Post by sprocket on Nov 15, 2011 20:26:23 GMT -5
>>>....see if she overheats
Why not test the switch off the scooter? Sounds like either they got a bad production run of temperature switches or the hard break in isn't a great idea?
There is more to break in than the rings DAWG...
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Post by jayhawk on Nov 15, 2011 21:29:01 GMT -5
If you're buying a new scoot, I'd expect it to work right without any work on my part. Make the dealer fix it...that's why you buy a new scooter with a warranty.
Eric
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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 16, 2011 5:52:37 GMT -5
Well, to test this switch is kinda of a pain...it opens at 101 Centigrade...so u really need to test it by heating coolant and checking for continuity at that temperature....seems like a real pain in the butt...I called the dealer and the swiches are about $115....If the scoot heats up and the fan doesn't come on...I'm going to pull the swich and test it....if it is bad...I'll get another one...unless someone has a better idea...
As far as the warranty....I basicly have none...the dealer I bought from is going out of business....they told me no warranty and the scoot sells as is...before I bought...that was fine with me..
So just taking it back to the dealer is not an option.....anyway what's the fun in that...
If every person that had a scooter problem on the forum....the solution was take it back to the dealer....there would be no need for this forum unless u just want to trade pics of your families vacation...
The fun in this forum is to get advice and give advice and try to solve problems and learn something....I didn't just buy these scoots to ride...If they don't break down...I'll probably do something to them to cause a problem and need to fix that...HeHe....I like working on them as much as riding them....
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Post by jayhawk on Nov 16, 2011 7:19:33 GMT -5
That's cool Silver Streak - wasn't trying to make you feel bad. If you're having fun tracking down the issue, go for it.
That said, if it get's too problematic, you could always call SYM. There might have been a known issue or recall. Plus, and I may be wrong...I'm pretty sure the warranty comes from SYM, not the dealer and they might contract with someone or supply you the parts for free.
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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 16, 2011 8:51:24 GMT -5
No problem Jay....my scoot is a 2009 although new...if someone bought one of these in 2009 their warranty is about out....after all I have read , I can now test and replace any part of this scoots cooling system, so maybe I could help someone esle if they have a similar problem...
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Post by jayhawk on Nov 16, 2011 9:07:12 GMT -5
I'm glad we're good. I still think you're under warranty if it's a newly bought 2009...the warranty starts with date of purchase and you're MSO would have that on it. I'm just saying free parts are a good thing even if you're doing the wrenching yourself.
I just want your SYM up and running...those HD200s are sweet scooters with remarkable performance. Have you checked on the SYM scooter forum to see if anyone else had this problem or if they have any advice?
Like you point out, the great thing about fixing your problems yourself is you learn a lot and can help out others.
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Post by oldkid on Nov 16, 2011 9:12:08 GMT -5
That happens a lot if a car or bike has been setting long time. The thermostat most likely stuck. Usually if you burp the throttle to about mid RPM a few times the extra pressure will jar it loose. When I got my Mainstreet it had been setting for a couple of years and I also just removed the old antifreeze and replaced it with new Prestone. You might want to change yours.
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Post by jayhawk on Nov 16, 2011 9:21:10 GMT -5
oldkid - interesting, and that could cause the problem if the thermostat is stuck...likely a cheap fix, too. Even I can change a thermostat on a car (provided I can find it on modern engines...should be easier on a scoot.
The first time I changed a thermostat I didn't get the clamps on very well...luckily the engine was cool...because when I started her up my dad (not mechanically inclined at all) was standing looking over the open engine saying "looks good", and then he stumbled back covered in antifreeze when one side of the hose popped off. I'm much more careful clamping hoses down now. :-)
Eric
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Post by dyoung1167 on Nov 16, 2011 9:24:48 GMT -5
yeah, was just trying to save ya some bucks. i like fixing things myself too, but i'm also a cheap bastard. $115 on something new would have me fuming, but then again, as you said it was bought as-is, so, like you already have, i'd get over it - eventually haha.
shouldn't be too bad to test though unless it's hard to remove. a descent meat thermometer and a small strainer to hold the switch in should work fine. use some scrap wire and keep the meter connected to the switch as it heats and you'll be able to tell exactly when it closes.
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Post by sprocket on Nov 16, 2011 12:29:48 GMT -5
Might want to read THIS!! "The SYM HD200 thermostat looks exactly like the Piaggio made thermostat for 200-250cc Vespas, Aprilia Scarabeos and some of other makes and models. " symforum.com/index.php?topic=928.0 |
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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 16, 2011 12:47:58 GMT -5
I wonder if that thermostat worked? Anyway, my thermostat is working fine.
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Post by sprocket on Nov 16, 2011 12:56:38 GMT -5
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Post by dyoung1167 on Nov 16, 2011 20:32:24 GMT -5
so it is the fan? (temp switch i mean?) correct? water cooled engines do not have the fins to cool them when the liquid doesn't do it. that is what the fan is for.
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 16, 2011 23:32:10 GMT -5
To draw air through the radiator
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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 17, 2011 6:55:57 GMT -5
I talked to a mechanic about the radiator fan switch and the engine temperature sensor. He said the best way to check them is with this.... www.amazon.com/HDE-Temperature-Infrared-Thermometer-Laser/dp/B002YE3FS4/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1321531085&sr=1-1I ordered one and will test them when it gets here...he said I can fire this at the base of the switch and sensor to determine if they are working or not....we'll see....I haven't had time to run the scoot and get the temp up enough to see if I have solved the problem or it is still there...I have made a couple of trips to the grocery store for the wife but that's not nearly enough to get the temp up...Going to do that this weekend. |
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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 22, 2011 20:54:34 GMT -5
Ok guys, took the scoot out for a sixty mile ride this afternoon...as u know my coolant on my new scoot overflowed after getting home from the dealer that is going out of business...
I flushed the coolant twiced actually, changed the engine oil and gear oil...(this scoot had a 100 miles on it and had been used for test rides)...the oil was really crappy looking cause I guess it had been in there for 2 yrs....the coolant flush was not horrible but not clean either....Well, today the scoot ran great...no temp problems at all...temp gauge stayed between 1/4 and 1/2 up the scale....the radiator fan never came on....outside temp was 80 degrees....I shot the radiator with an infrared temp gun after the ride and it was 60 degrees centigrade...the radiator fan switch comes on at 100 degrees centigrade so no wonder it never came on....What I think happen is the morons at the dealer did not put my radiator cap on properly and the coolant overflowed...I don't think the scoot overheated cause the gauge never got above 1/2 up the scale and the fan never came on...
Conclusion....what did I learn from this....I learned how the cooling system works on this scoot and now feel I can address most problems that might arise later with it...So if u have a question after the cooling system on this scoot...hit me up...
I also learn never to trust the dealer mechanics...check it yourself...I don't think they are bad...I just think they are busy and sometimes careless but this , I guess, could happen to anyone...
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Post by sprocket on Nov 22, 2011 21:12:34 GMT -5
Great to have a 'good news' story...
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Post by jayhawk on Nov 22, 2011 21:29:42 GMT -5
Very cool! Glad you're up and running. Does the SYM HD200 have vents to allow you to "turn on the heat" in winter? Not that it's an issue for you, but it's cold and rainy here, and I wish I had heat!
Eric
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Post by Silver Streak on Nov 22, 2011 21:43:43 GMT -5
Eric,
It has some small vents below the seat but they put very little heat out....I did feel just a little once everything got warmed up well...
Michael
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