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Post by chronic1 on May 17, 2011 19:27:31 GMT -5
Greg yeah about the only way to correct this is to mill where the plug screws in, but as cheap as heads are, espeasally with the cheap price of some big bore kits
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Post by larry001964 on Jun 16, 2011 22:42:10 GMT -5
Another poster just made me aware of this thread, Many of you remember my scooter doing the same thing, what I found the problem was is the valves on mine weren't seating correctly, yes i had enough compression to start and run but i was losing vacuum because they weren't seating right, I pulled off the top of the engine, lapped the valves. put it back together and problem solved. I should have posted it at the time but I thought i was the only person that had this problem not so many others. Any way Lapping the valves or using a manual petcock until the valves seat completely should fix the problem.
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Post by rollins244 on Jun 17, 2011 8:47:30 GMT -5
I was wondering about the spark plug problem. would this cause the spark plug to bend at the tip as if something was hitting it?
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 17, 2011 22:33:01 GMT -5
No, its more that the tip of the spark plug is shrouded by extra metal of the head.
I wonder if a slightly longer spark plug would work. As long as it doesn't hit the piston.
Greg
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Post by digitaljosh1 on Jun 24, 2011 10:30:07 GMT -5
This is the exact issue i am having with my new scooter..
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 24, 2011 15:49:50 GMT -5
I just had the SAME issue with two brand new Peace Sports 805's. I diagnosed them to be the spark plug gap. I regapped to .026 from .035 and the problem went away. One scooter had 7 miles on it as it was brand new for a rental and I didn't have time to do a full road test of 15+ miles like I normally do. It was the stock Torch spark plug that I didn't have an NGK (ran out) to replace it with. I just bought 20 NGK's so I'll never run out again!
Greg
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Post by digitaljosh1 on Jun 28, 2011 16:19:16 GMT -5
I just had the SAME issue with two brand new Peace Sports 805's. I diagnosed them to be the spark plug gap. I regapped to .026 from .035 and the problem went away. One scooter had 7 miles on it as it was brand new for a rental and I didn't have time to do a full road test of 15+ miles like I normally do. It was the stock Torch spark plug that I didn't have an NGK (ran out) to replace it with. I just bought 20 NGK's so I'll never run out again! Greg would this cause it eventually not be able to start, or not start easily also? i have a peace 805, and it ran okay at first with the exception of cutting out at high rpm, and now it barely runs. I have about 20 miles on it. It was suggested to adjust the valves, so i guess i will do that, and replace the plug first, but what else could i be looking at?
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 28, 2011 20:26:40 GMT -5
Possibly... Lots of things change in the engine in the first few miles as things "wear" into place. I notice that MOST of the hard starting in the engines go away after about 20 miles. So if they were adjusted to compensate, at about then they would need to be re-adjusted. I always check the valves again somewhere around there, and again at 100 miles.
I would say for you it's likely to be the valves. But also check the spark plug and replace the crappy Torch with an NGK or similar.
Also check that the carb slide is moving up and down easily. I've found they tend to be tight at first, which is one reason for hesitation on hard accelerations.
Greg
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Post by digitaljosh1 on Jun 30, 2011 17:01:02 GMT -5
Another poster just made me aware of this thread, Many of you remember my scooter doing the same thing, what I found the problem was is the valves on mine weren't seating correctly, yes i had enough compression to start and run but i was losing vacuum because they weren't seating right, I pulled off the top of the engine, lapped the valves. put it back together and problem solved. I should have posted it at the time but I thought i was the only person that had this problem not so many others. Any way Lapping the valves or using a manual petcock until the valves seat completely should fix the problem. what do you mean lapped the valves? also where can i get the shim's needed to adjust the valve clerance?
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 30, 2011 19:03:29 GMT -5
Lap the valves = run a cutting edge on them to smooth them out and remove imperfections so they fit tightly.
Greg
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Post by ctss on Jul 1, 2011 13:38:04 GMT -5
New menber and dealer here. I have ran into the same performance problem twice this week. I spent most of last night tracking down the problem and repairing it. When I pulled the valve cover vent tube off, I noiticed a lot of blowby smoke coming out of it, but I also noticed the bogging at idle would go away.
There was oil in the intake and filter. I rode the bike up the road with the hose off, and better prformance, but not up to snuff. I ended up pulling the cylinder after coming up with 140 lbs of compression, instead of the 210 lbs a new one checked at. The piston was scored, and the second ring was wedged into the piston and seized. This bike was ridden easy by an older man, who only used preminum gas, and I always change the oil out to 15-40 diesel oil.
I installed a new 72cc kit, and it was running better than new. This bike had 490 km on it. I did one the night before that the piston was destroyed from heat and detionation with less that 300 km. There seems to be a problem with the pistons, timing, or something else that is destroying these pistons so soon. These engines had gotten hot enough that oil was cooked to the back of the piston.
Mike
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Post by noday on Jul 1, 2011 14:02:17 GMT -5
for ctss:
scoot # 1
lube failure of a piston = a bad oil pump or channels. perhaps a cylinder base gasket with out holes in the right place
scoot # 2
a too small main jet = lean mix at WOT and detonation and heat
the new stock carbs are jetted very lean to meet the EPA guidelines
other cause of a lean mix::: leak at intake or vac hose. or loose exhaust manifold or from the epa hose/canister/reed valve assembly.
look for known simple causes of failure before going to timing and pistons, etc.
a timing problem is unusual, not impossible, but unusual.
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Post by ctss on Jul 2, 2011 12:10:46 GMT -5
Found that both people had run regular gasoline. One on purpose, and drove it like a dog, the other by mistake. I could tell detonation was the problem from looking at each piston. For the people that get their preminum gas at stations that only have one hose and three selections, the first quart or so of gas is what the last person bought, which is 99% regular. If you purchase less than a gallon of gas, then most of it is most likely regular. A cylinder with 205-210 lbs compression will not last running regular gas with ethanol blended into it.
Buy gas at a station that either has a seperate pump for each grade, or one pump with a seperate hose for each grade.
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Post by digitaljosh1 on Jul 12, 2011 10:09:04 GMT -5
Possibly... Lots of things change in the engine in the first few miles as things "wear" into place. I notice that MOST of the hard starting in the engines go away after about 20 miles. So if they were adjusted to compensate, at about then they would need to be re-adjusted. I always check the valves again somewhere around there, and again at 100 miles. I would say for you it's likely to be the valves. But also check the spark plug and replace the crappy Torch with an NGK or similar. Also check that the carb slide is moving up and down easily. I've found they tend to be tight at first, which is one reason for hesitation on hard accelerations. Greg I finally got around to looking into my new scooter, got a new plug, and got around to looking into the valves. To my surprise, when i took out the stock torch plug, i knew right away what the problem was. The center electrode was literally gone. there wasn't anything left to gap. it was gone below the porcelain insulator, and there was some bits of what was at some point molten metal on the ground electrode. So i am assuming it just melted away, hopefully into the exhaust. The rest of the plug looked to have good combustion characteristics beyond looking a bit rich, which is almost certainly from incomplete combustion from lack of spark in certain situations. I didn't do the valves this time because i wanted to take out problems one by one so by process of elimination i wouldn't inadvertently cause other issues. On the test ride it ran great, and easily got up to about 33mph on a flat surface (gps verified) and stayed there unlike before where it would cut out after just a bit of time. Also I noticed at least on my plug that there was some combustion deposits on the last row of threads on the plug so at least my head seems to be okay. So I hope that this helps things. I have no problem with maintenance on this scooter, but its going to annoy me a lot if its breaking all the time.
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Post by mainepeace on Jul 12, 2011 12:19:11 GMT -5
Yep the Torch plugs SUCK! Glad you got your scooter up and running again!
Greg
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Post by petermcg on Jan 28, 2012 21:50:16 GMT -5
And what may I ask was wrong with the cylinder head? Put up a picture of the bad cylinder head and the good cylinder head. So everyone can see what on the cylinder head would cause it to bog only at wide open throttle. Lefty I am having the same problem with my scooter at 800 miles on the clock, but I think the previos owner had the problem from new. Engine power dies and by backing of the throttle it regains power. Anyway loaned it to my son and now it does not go at all,, I dismantled and brought a set of rings and gaskets,, and putting it back together I noticed the valve clearance adjustment seemed to be a problem,, I had a rocker hitting the cap on the top of the spring and opening the valve before I could get the adjustment any where near it. So I spent half my life on google and discovered that it is most likely that one of the valves had stretched. I am ordering a new head and valves tonight. My bike still looks brand new ,I see know reason why it wont go.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 29, 2012 1:57:21 GMT -5
Lean lean lean. You are too lean and fried the valves. The stock carb is way too lean from the factory, almost enough to fry the engine by itself. You need to upjet to at least a 78-80 main jet. Better jet, just replace the carb.
Greg
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Post by imnts2 on Jan 29, 2012 9:14:19 GMT -5
Very interesting. good detective work. You can bet a bunch of bright guys in China were going nuts trying to figure it out too. Just about the time I think I am ready to tackle learning another system, here comes a new twist at the mechanics of the engine. Ha. Seems to me an easy fix for most any machinist. I will be watching to see how it plays out so I hope scalade and others dealing with this problem keep us posted.
Good to see you find a problem that caught your interest Lefty.
Cheers lefty2
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Post by petermcg on Feb 12, 2012 14:45:05 GMT -5
And what may I ask was wrong with the cylinder head? Put up a picture of the bad cylinder head and the good cylinder head. So everyone can see what on the cylinder head would cause it to bog only at wide open throttle. Lefty I am having the same problem with my scooter at 800 miles on the clock, but I think the previos owner had the problem from new. Engine power dies and by backing of the throttle it regains power. Anyway loaned it to my son and now it does not go at all,, I dismantled and brought a set of rings and gaskets,, and putting it back together I noticed the valve clearance adjustment seemed to be a problem,, I had a rocker hitting the cap on the top of the spring and opening the valve before I could get the adjustment any where near it. So I spent half my life on google and discovered that it is most likely that one of the valves had stretched. I am ordering a new head and valves tonight. My bike still looks brand new ,I see know reason why it wont go. [glow=red,2,300]I would like to add now that the bike is up and running and the problem was the valves, it is going good now.[/glow]
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Post by kwoodard1986 on Feb 13, 2012 20:32:20 GMT -5
I've come across this same issue as well and throwing a larger main jet in the carb has seemed to work every time.
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Post by fast150 on Feb 16, 2012 20:07:59 GMT -5
I just bought a 50cc 2009 Peace scooter.. Apparently it's a 63cc from what I have been reading.. (6B) and all that.. anyway.. I bought it today, after I trailered it home, I took it out to the gas station fill up, It ran 40 something mph no damn problem... now its bogging down with WOT.. Like Lefty said it seems to pick up a lil bit when I let off the throttle slightly.. Which would mean its running Lean.. My question is, how do I make it not run so lean?? I dont have money to go buying new jets and all this, and I wouldnt know how to anyway. right now, I can MAYBE get my scooter to run 35 if Im lucky. I went out earlier and put a new plug, premium gas and I even poured a lil Octane booster in with it, and it didnt change a thing... PLEASE HELP!
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Post by fast150 on Feb 16, 2012 20:19:10 GMT -5
Also im curious as to wtf the thing is coming upwards on the side of the valve cover?! It looks like a small exhaust pipe??? wth is that thing?! I didnt have one of those on my old 150... RIP
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Post by mainepeace on Feb 17, 2012 2:34:34 GMT -5
It's either an EGR or the PAIR system.
Things you can do to richen the mix a bit is to try to adjust the A/F screw on the carburetor if it has it. You can turn it CCW to richen the mix, turn in 1/4-1/8 turn increments. However this only affects idle and just off idle.
You can adjust the needle in the carburetor. On top, you can remove the two screws that hold on the metal circular top of the carb. The rubber thing is the diaphragm and the needle is screwed into the bottom of it. CAREFULLY remove the rubber diaphragm. Look at the needle sticking out the bottom. If it has notches in it you can take the circlip and move it down a notch (towards the tip) to richen the mix. If it doesn't have any grooves, you can sometimes put a very tiny washer underneath the circlip to raise it a tiny bit at a time. Test.
You should run some fuel injector cleaner or Seafoam through your system as well to clean out the carb.
Greg
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Post by fast150 on Feb 17, 2012 10:02:06 GMT -5
WHATEVER IT IS...ITS NOT HOOKED TO ANYTHING...I dont mean the rubber hose coming off the valve cover... This is Metal, It looks identical almost to a small exhaust header, it is pointing upwards, and a rubber hose is on the end of it. Its not hooked up to anything, so maybe this is doing it aswell??? Also, if what you said only effects the Idle, then I need some other ideas because it idles just fine..??
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Post by pneathery on Feb 17, 2012 11:30:33 GMT -5
There is a metal piece (usually chrome) that goes from the valve cover to below the valve cover and it is hooked up to a piece of rubber tube sometimes, or it runs into the exhaust at other times. (this is off of me remembering from the three times I have lulled the valve cover off, so I might be off a little about what it hooks up to) but it is part of the egr system like main peace said, it takes oil spray/vapor and reintroduces it into the head so it will combust with the fuel so we are nice to the environment. It us a u like shape piece that is attached to the head through the valve cover with two bolts, and mine then connects to right before the exhaust valve. I think that is what you are talking about. It could kinda look like an exhaust port. But there are also breather lines all along the curb side of the scoot going up to near your tank where there is an air filter and some of them wind back to your carb as well, you might take some pics and start a new thread if you can't figure out what it really is. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Good luck!
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Post by fast150 on Feb 17, 2012 22:37:43 GMT -5
lol.. I cant believe how many people from SC are on here... (greenville here) anyway.. I got fed up today and slapped a piece of duct tape over bout half of my intake.. All of a sudden my scooter runs like a scalded dog..... I must mention that when I bought this scoot yesterday ($180) the airbox was not on it, but the guy sent it with the scooter.. anyway so I figured naturally to fix my lean problem, just install the airbox back on it... Welllllll when I did that it ran completely like sh!t and wouldnt even do 10 MPH, then it stopped running completely and wouldnt start back.. and When I looked down the Aorbox was so full of Gas that it was damn near pouring out on the ground.. So I took it back off and tried the tape... Good thig is I can now do bout 45... bad news is.. It's not gonna last very long ... damned if I do and damned if I dont. Also... this piece of bad wording sh!t doesnt have a Air/Fuel mixture screw! want to know why??? because its mine thats why, It's bad wording fate.
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Post by mainepeace on Feb 17, 2012 22:40:17 GMT -5
You can get a new carb for $35 or so. You are better off getting a new one because it has the A/F screw and probably larger jets.
Greg
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Post by fast150 on Feb 18, 2012 23:48:08 GMT -5
right on greg.
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Post by Edmund on Feb 19, 2012 0:11:01 GMT -5
That carb probably has the Aif Fuel mixture screw plugged. You can drill out the Plug and the Fuel Ratio screw is behind the plug. Many people already have done that. The plug is about 1/8 thick.
Don't even have to take the carb off just loosen the clamps rotate it on it side and drill baby. pete
Here is a Video of it:
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Post by fast150 on Feb 21, 2012 16:25:04 GMT -5
omg wow, that is exactly what it is, it is plugged... why in the bad wording hell did they do that anyway?! One question, at the end of the video he puts a spring under the screw, will I have to do that?
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