|
Post by mymomwantsatrike on Mar 5, 2011 4:11:43 GMT -5
Burgman, I really do think that all of us here feel your pain. I sure do feel your frustration on getting a product that did not live up to your expectation. If your intention is to warn other users to be careful on making decisions that one may regret down the road because they will be doing more mechanical work then they anticipated by purchasing a Chinese scooter, I don't think not one person would have disagreed with you. I would think that everyone would have welcomed a personal experience story with an added warning to new riders. I'm sure many would have contributed to your story and your intended message would have been well received and appreciated. So if you really feel that "It's all about the ride", as most of us here do, let's keep it that way. : - ) As an FYI, my Linhai was trouble free until I got to 13K. I then had everything under my seat go bad. I have had few choice words for my Linhai...but I also know it comes with the territory. Happy riding! I hope that through this thread the "personal story" was relayed. And yes, that was my intention as to warning or giving a heads up to others considering doing what I did with the Linhai. Glad that you got so many trouble free miles with your scoot. I'm not dissing those who ride Chinese scooters at all in this thread. I feel I got screwed and I'm still not happy about it. The 100 miles I got to ride on the Linhai were great (as long as I ignore the miles pushing the darned thing down the road when it decided to inexplicably die on me). It let me know I could still ride and how much I enjoyed riding. Therefore I went back to the internet to look for a scoot that would be a more dependable alternative. I went into the Linhai with info garnered from the internet and this site with the thoughts gleaned that this was the most reliable scoot to be had at the price. Turned out that I was penny wise and dollar foolish. I spent around $3k on a new 300 and ended up spending $5500 on a used Burgie. For $8500 I could have had even more options. I don't make a heck of a lot of money and both of these purchases had me saving pennies and eating peanut butter but they were purchases I wanted to make. I gotta live with my decisions and I still feel obliged to pass along my experience with this particular scoot. Cheers. sry for your misfortune. it certainly is an exception and not the rule to have these kinds of problems even with a China scoot i wonder why you would pay $3000 for this scooter, though? heck man their are barely used Kymco and SYM 250cc models out there which could match and beat that price, and even NEW leftover '09's which could come close. one place in Ohio had leftover Kymco Grand Vista's and People S250's at ridiculous prices, fully prepped. even offered to store the scoots for as long as need be until shipping could be arranged for me any china scoot is a crap shoot if you don't want to tinker and more. spending $3000 for one is....not something i would do with few exceptions. and certainly not from the internet. glad things worked out for you with the Burg, but what an expensive lesson being the Linhai is worth next to nothing now used Taiwanese is the way to go on 250's for $2500 and up imo. give or take 2k for this one
|
|
|
Post by JetMax on Mar 5, 2011 11:59:14 GMT -5
Burgman,
This is like telling a Justin Bieber fan there are better singers out there. Even though its true there will be a mob to tell you otherwise and call you names for suggesting it.
|
|
|
Post by bigphillip79 on Mar 5, 2011 23:29:05 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Burgman here. Just cause you are capable of wrenching on you own stuff doesn't mean you should have to, especially something brand new. I have 2 Japanese scoots, a 92 Helix and an 84 Yammy Riva 180. The only thing the Helix has needed in 20,000 miles was a driven face bearing and the usual wear parts (Belt, rollers, tires) and oil and filters. The Riva sat for a long while and has 600 miles on it and I swapped the factory carb for a better one. Had to custom fab it to get everything lined up and functioning. Both are great scoots and I do all the work on them myself. The part I never get is the PDI business. How is it that you guys feel that having to take a scooter apart and rebuild it to have any kind of reliability out of it is acceptable? No matter how cheap they are and whether you can work on it shouldn't matter.
If you have had good luck with Chinese scoots, great.I think it's a toss up as far as how far it will take you. Some have good luck and most will not with Chinese scoots. Same with Chinese motorcycles. You cannot argue that a Chinese scoot is better quality and reliablity than a Japanese, Italian, or even Taiwanese scoot. Just cause you have something doesn't mean its awesome.
Would I own and ride a Chinese? If I got one cheap enough (almost free), maybe. My wrenching skills could keep it on the road but I would rather ride than wrench. That's why your buying it right? To ride it. Would I buy one new? Absolutely not. Too many good used Japanese scoots, like my Helix ($1300) I'd rather put my money on. I would always recommend a use Japanese scoot to anyone looking to get into the scooter world.
If you have a Chinese scooter, good luck and happy riding. Hope I see you on the road sometime.
|
|
|
Post by larry001964 on Mar 6, 2011 0:16:03 GMT -5
The part I never get is the PDI business. How is it that you guys feel that having to take a scooter apart and rebuild it to have any kind of reliability out of it is acceptable? No matter how cheap they are and whether you can work on it shouldn't matter. If you have had good luck with Chinese scoots, great.I think it's a toss up as far as how far it will take you. Some have good luck and most will not with Chinese scoots. Same with Chinese motorcycles. You cannot argue that a Chinese scoot is better quality and reliablity than a Japanese, Italian, or even Taiwanese scoot. Just cause you have something doesn't mean its awesome. If you have a Chinese scooter, good luck and happy riding. Hope I see you on the road sometime. Hi bigphillip79, Answering you on this one is kinda hard, I can agree with burgman that in the time and miles he had the problems he had were unacceptable. At the same time, I guess it's all boils down to opinion, My Chinese scooter gave me many headaches in the beginning, some was the scooter and part of it was also my inexperience with small scooter engines.. I'm an Industrial Mechanic so I'm no slouch with a wrench or welder either.. But these were new and to some extent there was a learning curve, and still is. I enjoy working on my scooter, I enjoy working on others, so maybe i was born a tinker, but as for riding i can promise you i ride far more than i wrench on my own scooter. I em a pretty poor man in most respects so the price appealed to me. the idea that i would have to work on it and improve my scooter didn't phase me at all. but I only paid 650 dollars for mine brand new and delivered, If i had spend double that i would have expected much more in quality. My scooter is actually quite boring now, I don't have to wrench on it anymore. I drive it everyday and em currently using it to do mobile scooter repairs for others. so if you think these things aren't reliable I would have to differ on that. Just today i did a repair that I drove 44 miles round trip, cost me less than 1 dollar in fuel... That's just today's mileage, for the week over 240.. i spent 650 dollars on it at first, I spent another 150 in repairs PDI and improvements. So about 800 total, and its already made that back by being reliable.. Personally I think he just got a lemon and that happens in anything man made.. Take care, Hope to see you out there on the road too it would be fun ;D
|
|
|
Post by ce on Mar 6, 2011 22:28:37 GMT -5
Some guys would rather ride than wrench, but then again, so would most girls.
You're awesome Larry, downright awesome. I'd like to see what you could do with a 150.
|
|
|
Post by leo on Mar 12, 2011 23:00:59 GMT -5
i purchased my paperweight in January of 2008 for $1,000 and it had 82 miles on it. the only parts i put on the engine were 3 intake manifolds and an iridium spark plug. i've put well over 6000 miles on my scoot and by the way it sounds it's good for another 6000.
there are 3 things i've done to my scoot that has totally changed my riding experience: 1. removed the fuel valve. 2. drilled 12 holes in my CVT cover. 3. installed an iridium plug.
i wouldn't trade my chinese scooter experience for ANY name brand scoot for any price. at least i am able to fix the thing when the time comes.
|
|
|
Post by justbuggin on Mar 13, 2011 1:41:37 GMT -5
i have a WILDFIRE 150SP that i got for 750 i have been working in it for a few days and i got the fun of having a scooter to get me around on and don't care about what other people think i AM HAVING FUN if you don't know how to work on your ride you should take the bus as the bus company can fix it when it breaks down by the way china has the larges poplation in the wold and i would bet that they ride more chinesse scooter than anyone
|
|
|
Post by Brooster on Mar 13, 2011 15:52:16 GMT -5
Leo, What is the reason for the dozen holes in the cvt cover, for cooling? Why I'm asking is last summer after riding about 20 miles @50 + my belt disintegrated. Could that be from overheating? The belt was only 500 mi old. And where and what size are the holes? Can't wait for spring!!
|
|
|
Post by leo on Mar 13, 2011 18:31:07 GMT -5
The part I never get is the PDI business. How is it that you guys feel that having to take a scooter apart and rebuild it to have any kind of reliability out of it is acceptable? name brand scoots are PDI'ed all during manufacture. i also can't figure out why anyone would want to PDI their rides. i've owned 2 chinese scoots and PDI'ed neither one. i sold the first one for the same price i paid for it after owning it for 6 months china hasn't captured over 2/3 of the motorcycle market because it sells junk.
|
|
|
Post by leo on Mar 13, 2011 18:39:15 GMT -5
Leo, What is the reason for the dozen holes in the cvt cover, for cooling? Why I'm asking is last summer after riding about 20 miles @50 + my belt disintegrated. Could that be from overheating? The belt was only 500 mi old. And where and what size are the holes? Can't wait for spring!! yes, they were for cooling. they are 9/16" and located over the center of the variator. i never would have thought it would keep my engine from over heating but it did. the original intent was concern over the variator grease getting too hot. the original rollers broke into pieces because of excessive heat. i also found out why my intakes were cracking. i was torquing the band clamp too tight. you want this clamp just tight enough to seal the carburetor. on my scoot i had to brace the carb to keep it from rotating and i thought you could do that with the clamp. if you can't rotate the carb then the clamp is too tight. i also found that you can repair a cracked intake with regular inner tube patching material if the crack isn't too big, just make sure to sand the intake then wash with rubbing alcohol, let dry over night before applying glue and patch. it's a temporary fix but a patched intake will get you to where you can get something permanent. i carry both of mine. i think its ironic that burgman and others like him don't post hints like this.
|
|
|
Post by tvrtko1995 on Mar 14, 2011 23:32:07 GMT -5
Hi
I am new here (as you can see by the number of posts). But, I was reading this tread for a while and felt I can say a few words.
I am considering getting to myself some scooter (not that I ever wanted one earlier. Not even regular bike. BUT.... Here we go...)
Welcome to XXI century!
That's what I say to my customers (I am in consumer repair business). Almost the same thing is happening in electronics, like with the bikes (scooters, or what have you...)
We are mentally in XX century. We are already in XXI and we just need to get used to it. Somehow, we are overwhelmed with huge number of cheap labor force. Unmerciful rule of "business numbers" is pushing us in the same category with unskilled labor from the far East. Most of us are (as I call) "German" school of professionalism in every segment of out activities - what means producing something that will last, fixing something with best of our abilities, use of most advanced materials and trust in someone's good intention to help us if we need someone's service.
I remember, at the end of '70s, there was large number of Samsung and Gold Star (who can remember?) electronics. Cheap and extremely bad. Some of my colleagues refused to work on those things... It was "insult for profession" even to touch them. Fortunate, or unfortunate, I stayed around those things for a while. Look them today! They are taking most of the market and they set up standards in electronics.
My father was manager in mechanics repair. So, as a kid, I was hanging around tractors, trucks, cars and bikes.... My father was mechanic himself and tried to teach me all of the craft he knew about mechanics. I can consider myself "old school" in mechanics and electronics.
Am I excited about "XXI century"? NO! I am so disappointed on many different levels. BUT. We have to take reality in consideration. Are we any more worth than average Asian (or Chinese, for that matter, who cannot have more than ONE child!)? From the business prospective - not so. We can bust ourself in the chest as much as we want, that is not going to change one single pixel in the World. We, as a WEST, lost our technological abilities, we lost in the race of manufacturing... We are just good as - BUYERS. Until we run out of money.
All of my rant, I am going to conclude with this: we need to get to live according to out abilities. We have one priority - we know how something is supposed to work ( I am reading about bad connectors, bed grounding, bad liquids...) Let's buy something (scooter) based on engines from '70s, take day or two and make all of the things right and try to enjoy remaining of life in the things we like. If you have a money, buy yourself Porshe, Lamborghini, Ferarri.... and have fun. We, who cannot (or don't want to) buy it, because we are POOR or we enjoy to get our hands dirty in grease, we will try to help each other and take things that matter over style. At least, there is some choice still now. I just feel sorry for the kids that will not know how quality can be daily value...
Me? I am just looking for cheap way of transportation in the situation when I will not be able to fill the tank in my Yukon to go to my favorite place to buy bread, or to sit with friends and enjoy espresso together.... I had Yugo for 11 years. I made 250 000 miles with it. In those years I replaced almost everything that is moving in it and never spent more than $300 for the parts. Did I enjoy it? No! But, I was able to support my business and travel to do things that matter. If you ask me, the worst is just to come. Do I enjoy driving Yukon? You bet! But, very soon I will drive it just for Christmas and Easter. I am not planing to buy any other car to the rest of my life. But, very soon I will not be able to drive 50 miles just to have 1/2 hour joy of sipping espresso. So, I am looking for the means of transportation that will take me from point A to the point B, without breaking my valet. I believe 50 cc will not make 100 miles ride very pleasant through the suburbs and city. For about 2 times more money, I can get 150-250 cc with relatively pleasant ride and not so much gas in the tank.
|
|
|
Post by bigphillip79 on Mar 15, 2011 9:11:19 GMT -5
Find a used Honda Helix or Reflex and you're set. You can grab a good Helix for $1300-1800 all day long. A Reflex will run you closer to $2500. Both are 250cc and are free way capable. FOr the money you can't beat a Helix.
|
|
|
Post by jim63 on Mar 15, 2011 12:57:04 GMT -5
remember, at the end of '70s, there was large number of Samsung and Gold Star (who can remember?) electronics. Cheap and extremely bad. Some of my colleagues refused to work on those things... It was "insult for profession" even to touch them. Fortunate, or unfortunate, I stayed around those things for a while. Look them today! They are taking most of the market and they set up standards in electonics. I had a Gold Star VCR back in the early 80's, was from Korea I think. Bought it cause was cheapest on the market at the time. Worked good for the time I owned it. Price has alot to do with the purchase of an item, and for most is the determining factor. But these scooters are not $100 VCR's, do your research and make an informed decision on what scooter would be best for your requirements, whether it be Chinese or something else.
|
|
|
Post by tvrtko1995 on Mar 15, 2011 16:35:45 GMT -5
I was doing the math (on average on line price):
Chinese 50cc goes around $800 - 1cc=$16
150cc goes to about $1500 - 1cc=$10
250cc goes to $2200 - 1cc=$8.80
Initial investment is on 250cc side...
|
|
|
Post by Bake is Back on Mar 22, 2011 19:28:27 GMT -5
Burgmans are great, but as stated above, they are not without problems. Their problems are far lesser than chinese scoots, but you have to know what you are buying. Maybe he will be happy now.
|
|
|
Post by Bong on Mar 22, 2011 20:06:49 GMT -5
Ok now I am confused!!!! How does drillng holes in the CVT cover help The (engine) from overheating? variator grease??? You are Joking right??? This is good information but, misleading. Cooling the CVT has nothing to do with an engine over heating!!! better air flow in the clutch case is good. But will do nothing if the engine block is overheating!!! If your rollers are in pieces thers is another problem!!!!!! IMO
|
|
|
Post by leo on Mar 23, 2011 5:46:19 GMT -5
Ok now I am confused!!!! How does drillng holes in the CVT cover help The (engine) from overheating? you are as surprised as i was. i would never have guessed it would keep my engine from over heating but it did, one of the best things i've done for my bike. no. lithium based 4 ounces. it's your choice to vent your CVT, i know what happened to my scoot when i vented mine. i asked a worker at a machine shop why my rollers broke into about 100 pieces he said from excessive heat. i decided to vent my cover. my bike still overheats but i have to ride it hard in 95 degree heat to do it. even then i have to ride it for at least 4 or 5 hours straight.
|
|
|
Post by winbaby on Mar 27, 2011 22:43:30 GMT -5
I bought my znen 150 a month ago and have put 900 miles on it. I use it to commute to work and went on a ride with a scooter club. Not one problem. My father was skeptical of chinese scooters but after seeing mine he now wants one.
|
|
|
Post by burgman on Dec 5, 2011 22:54:10 GMT -5
Does anyone else have a German scooter? Anyone? BMW is coming out with a great one shortly.
|
|
|
Post by TERRA NUVO on Dec 6, 2011 0:44:03 GMT -5
hey burgy.
I am known for having too much to say.
well maybe, but mostly the reason is i just put 8000 miles on my xingyue and except headlight bulbs and readjusting idle 3 times after boric acid oil treatment.
I have not turned a single bolt or belt, so i just come in here and talk.
the tires are dull.
this bike cost 1450.00, delivered on a pallet, gas and go, brand name rims, tires and carb.
and no golf cart tires.
believe me friend, for 5 times as much, you got only twice as much bike.
for a man who can work on these, a jap bike is a rip off.
so i got a very nice camera.
a very nice DVD player.
a big stiletto.
3 antique art poetry books.
a leather jacket.
tons of road side meals.
but i never bought a helmet.
cause one came with the bike.
this is xingyue engine, you see 15,000 and 20-000 mile ones all the time, plus it does not look like a guppy with a camel saddle, which is cool, some folks like that look,
buy my redhead does not.
1450.00
|
|
|
Post by Pony66 on Dec 6, 2011 10:08:29 GMT -5
The people that whine about their inexpensive Chinese scooter needing maintainence are the same ones driving around with their brakes squeeling and engine light on. They whine 6 months later when the brake place tells them $600 to fix their car. Then they whine about owning a Japanese, Korean or whatever car. As a kid, I guess they bought a new bicycle when the chain came loose on the old one. One persons experience does not make a universal fact. I wonder what a guy in China thinks about American cars after buying that Pontiac Fiero. I can hear him now" American cars are all crap, I had one and it broke" I love my 8 year old GY6. I have only replaced the headlight bulb due to failure. It looks and rides like brand new. My buddie's Honda has no hope of keeping up. Wow this soap box is taller than I thought, better climb down
|
|
|
Post by johnrjohnston on Dec 6, 2011 12:51:07 GMT -5
I am willing to go out on a limb and make you an offer...because it is nothing but a paper weight, I'll give you $50.00 for it. That's pretty good for a paper weight.
|
|
|
Post by eugenec on Dec 6, 2011 13:44:34 GMT -5
There are people who smoke regularily and still live to their 90s.
There are drivers that speed all the time that never got caught or involved in an accident.
It's all about probability. If you look at the bulk numbers, you should know what the trend is. There is no point of arguing based on a few samples.
Some are willing to risk, some don't. Personal preference and that is all.
|
|
|
Post by richardthescooter1 on Dec 6, 2011 17:34:24 GMT -5
I have 250cc roketa scooter, when I bought it this scooter had alot of problems, so instead of throwing my hands into the air and walking away, I decided to work on it myself, through this scooter forum and others, I leaned how to work on my scoot, I just took off my carb, set float, adjust a/f mix, that job alone would have been about $150. I didn't have the money to buy a new or top of the line scooter, or to take it to be fixed. But I can now say my scoot is doing well, it had 2,100 miles on it when I bought it, now we are at 7,500 miles. I would encourage whereone that has a scooter problem, don't give up, come tell us and we may be able to help ;D
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Dec 7, 2011 5:42:20 GMT -5
Been both routes and after almost 8,000 miles with 2 heads, 2 drive belts, monthly oil changes (engine and gearcase), valve adjustments every 2 months, carb problems, fuel pump issues, CDI issues, vibration failures of muffler, starter failure, clutch failure, cvt scoring I traded up to a bike that was only a little more costly than a Chinese 250 and now have over 6,000 miles trouble free aside from a recall service that didn't cost me a dime. I did enjoy my Lance Vintage but it was way too high maintenance. I had done enough repairs in the course of 6 months on the Lance that if I had to pay someone to do them all equaled the value of my new Aprilia. The fuel injected SportCity 250 is selling for $2999 and will keep up with the Burgmans on most roadways also giving you a manageable 326 lb bike that is easy to deal with in the city. That is about half the weight and 1/3 the cost of a new Burgman 650.
If your life situation allows you the time to deal with the Chinese equation and it works for you that is fine however if you are cramped for time and money not able to afford the cost to pay someone to fix your bike and are limited on the personal time to do it yourself then there are other middle ground options from Aprilia. The maintenance tasks that I was doing monthly on the Lance are done once or twice a year on the Aprilia so most of the time I was spending dealing with regular maintenance and then problems on the Lance are now spent getting to work everyday on time, taking rides in the country and other things that I enjoy a bit more.
I ride daily 12 months a year comuuting to work on my bike and put on 1000 miles a month, sometimes much more sometimes a little less so my use is not typical of someone who rides in New England May though September and takes their car to work.
The Chinese bikes today are at the level of our power lawn and garden equipment of the 1960's which was servicable but did require a bit of tinkering to keep it running. They are getting better as they update their manufacturing processes but they still have a bit more to go. With Aprilia and Yamaha partnering with and tutoring them they will catch up more quickly.
Today is predicted to be a bad day for riding. 35 mph wind with 65 mph gusts and rain during my ride home otherwise I woud pack my rain suit and ride to work today.
|
|
|
Post by stevie37 on Dec 7, 2011 8:30:31 GMT -5
Stevie37 here, I have had a 150cc Strada RX200HP scooter and the bike was great Yes it had some problems, So do the more costly scoots out here. The 150cc when I sold it had over 30,000 miles on it and the new owner is still riding it. I now have a Honda Reflex 250cc, got it with 2600 miles, now as over 5,000 miles. All scooters have problems both jap and chin.
|
|
bluesluver
Big Dawg
'94 Honda Magna VF750
Posts: 25
|
Post by bluesluver on Dec 10, 2011 19:23:00 GMT -5
Personally I love folks like the original poster! I just bought my "paperweight" from one of his "sisters." Bought my Shenke SL250 from her for $650 with about 315 miles on it because she couldn't get it to run. Thanks to the folks in this group, I had an idea what was wrong with it and sure enough found a bad battery (paid $60 for a new gel battery) had the carb cleaned since it had set for a year in her garage ($40) and put a new vac line on it ($4). It has been in the low 40's since I bought it, so I only have been able to put 360 trouble free miles on it. Lets see, that's a little more than she put on it in 3yrs. My son just put 5,500 on his TaoTao 50cc. I love my China Scoot. Hope to find more this year.
|
|
|
Post by inuyasha on Dec 10, 2011 19:36:38 GMT -5
Hi Im extremely pleased with my chinese scoot by Puma Cycles Great looks, fantastic performance, great gas mileage and minimal maintenance Whats not to love ;D Take care and drive safely Yours Hank
|
|
|
Post by TERRA NUVO on Dec 11, 2011 5:15:52 GMT -5
10,000 miles on a cheap 16 in wheel scoot.
and the less i do to it, the less it does to me.
and on the back
Mona Lisa flames
|
|
|
Post by ssj4goko4 on Dec 26, 2011 18:45:06 GMT -5
spending 3 grand on a china scoot is a ripoff, even my bms cost less then that and its considered the best of the china brands. i picked up a used helix for 1k and 11k miles. both of them preform well. but finding real helix part is a problem compared to my china knockoff witch are easily gotten.
|
|