Spark Plug and gap for YY250TI already post this a

[barry]

I already posted this at Scoot Doc's but I'm noticing a rough ride at idle and speeds up to 30 mph then it smooths out. I want to change the spark plug to see if it helps. 8100mi. on my Roketa YY250T, 244cc Honda (CF Moto) Clone engine. What Spark Plug and what gap do you guys recommend.

[flyangler]

scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=200cc&action=display&thread=15079

[madmanjustice]

check the link in my sig, it has the numbers for the NGK Iridium plugs and E3 Diamond fire.

I have the same scoot and engine as you, i'm running an E3 right now. No complaints.

[onilegion]

Hi Barry,

This link to the Honda Helix manual should give you all you need to know: mpsracing.net/helix-manual/01-04.html

Just look for the Electrical section and Spark Plug. It also gives the recommended gap range. The 3 NGK plugs are listed in 3 different "heat ranges". For example, of the 3 plugs, the DPR7EA-9 is the coolest running plug, so you would use it when your engine was producing it's highest prolonged heat output such as "extended high speed riding". For NGK plugs the number in the 4th position(or 3rd position if non-resistor) gives you the "heat range"; the higher the number, the "colder" the plug.

We use the Iridium version of the NGK DPR7EA-9. The part # is DPR7EIX-9. A decent place to get them is :

www.gmanindustries.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=558&idcategory=67

Hope this helps,
onilegion <><

[barry]

;D Thanks to all and to "onilegion" The other answer I get a lot is "NGK DR8EA" with a .26 gap which is different that the manual given here of "DR6EA" as standard with a .32 - .35 gap. Which is right..?. I just got home with the "DR8EA". Should I take it back..? We are all talking about the same engine, right..?

[onilegion]

Oct 2, 2010 15:00:18 GMT -5 barry said:

;D Thanks to all and to "onilegion" The other answer I get a lot is "NGK DR8EA" with a .26 gap which is different that the manual given here of "DR6EA" as standard with a .32 - .35 gap. Which is right..?. I just got home with the "DR8EA". Should I take it back..? We are all talking about the same engine, right..?

Hi Barry,

We are not sure exactly how the DR8EA recommendation came to be, but it looks like it might have been an inaccuracy in cross-referencing combined with no one ever checking the scooter manufacturers' specifications.

The DR8EA is different than a DPR8EA; the "P" indicates a projected insulator design. This design gives better self cleaning, to prevent fouling, and generally better combustion initiation as well.

The 8 indicates a cooler heat range than the coldest OEM recommended plug, and on an engine with 8,100 miles (that may have started to have some fouling issues) you should probably be moving toward a hotter plug like a 5/6 or even a 7 , but not an 8.

Here is a link to what the NGK spark plug numbers indicate: www.ngk.com/sparkplug411_manufacturer.asp?manufacturerID=1

Here are some good parts sites/references that all list a spark plug that is one of the plugs specified by the OEM scooter manuf., namely the DPR7EA-9 (or the DPR7EIX-9 if you prefer the iridium version):

(1) www.cheapcycleparts.com/products/251335-honda-98069-57916-hard-parts-s-plg-dpr7ea-9 (scroll down to see all years if the Honda Helix CN250 listed in the applications)

(2) www.partsforscooters.com/145-8_Spark_plug_250cc?sc=9&category=73523

(3) www.cfmoto-us.com/html/downloadCust.aspx (you can download the owner's manual for the CFMOTO Fashion and look on page 31 to find the spark plug recommendations) or here it is:



(4) Here is the spec. page from the CFMOTO 172MM 244cc (Honda Helix engine clone) service manual; note in the electrical section that the recommended plug is the DPR7EA-9



We also own a hard copy of the Official Honda Helix Service Manual 2004-2007 which lists the same plug recommendations as the on-line Honda Helix Manual that we linked you to earlier.

We personally run the DPR7IEX-9 in two different scoots with the 244cc Honda clone engine. One scoot is heavily modded and the other is nearly stock and sees daily highway driving, and both perform excellently with the DPR7IEX-9.

Bottom line..... the DR8EA, DPR8EA, and the DPR8IEX are NOT OEM recommended plugs for the 244cc Honda Clone engines; the DPR7EA-9 and the DPR7EIX-9 are OEM recommended plugs for the 244cc Honda clone engine.

BUY THE DPR7EIX-9 SPARK PLUG, AND YOU, AND YOUR SCOOT WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.

Available at Amazon www.amazon.com/NGK-DPR7EIX-9-Iridium-Spark-Plug/dp/B001B0X00U

or many motorcycle shops (it is used on many other bikes).

Hope this clears things up a bit,
onilegion <><

[madmanjustice]

just to confuse things further....

when i cross referenced the stock DR8EA NGK plug that came in my scoot (CFmoto clone engine) to get the Iridium equivilent, the DR8EIX was what NGK indicated.

And FWIW, the E3.36 plug is the E3 replacement for all plugs listed in this thread.

[barry]

Interesting, the spark plug I just removed from my 244cc scoot was the NGK DR8EA, apparently from the factory. So.....I may be going back to my 10 speed. This is getting to weird.

[onilegion]

We are aware that some China scoots came with a DR8EA installed. This does not mean that it is the optimal plug or even a correct plug. As many of us know numerous China scoots are assembled with questionable part substitutions. It also could be a questionable "upgrade" by the distributor/dealer so they can say "We replace the poor quality Chinese Torch plug with a genuine NGK plug".

More likely though is that since the MC-54 X (also some Bali-style scoots), was built with both both the Honda clone engine and the Yamaha (YP250) clone engine (which seems to be the predominant one they installed), they put the Yamaha/Linhai clone engine plug (which is an NGK DR8EA) into some of the scoots they built with the Honda/CFMOTO clone engines. See the following link for the correct plug for the Yamaha YP250 engine:

tinyurl.com/2ax4u8r


But take a look at the applications for the DR8EA and DR8EIX here and see if you can find the Honda Helix (you will not find the CFMOTO application data except in CFMOTO references, which we have already included).

www.cheapcycleparts.com/products/42882-ngk-spark-plugs-7162-spark-plugs-ngk-dr8ea-spark-plug



www.cheapcycleparts.com/products/42921-ngk-spark-plugs-6681-spark-plugs-ngk-dr8eix-ix-spark-plug

So you can either go with the recommendations of the engineers and technicians that designed, built, and tested your engine or you can just guess at the right plug.

Good grief, this is the most simple selection we can think of; just look at all the references for the DPR 5/6/7 EA/EIX -9 and then try to find an application reference for the DR8 EA/EIX that says it is for the CN250.

If you are just wanting to hear that the plug you bought is correct, well then just listen to... "The other answer I get a lot is "NGK DR8EA" " and be done with it.

We cannot think of any other way to demonstrate to you what the correct spark plug recommendations are, so now you must make your own decision.

Peace out,
onilegion <><

[madmanjustice]

just get the E3.36 and you wont have to worry, lol

[barry]

Thanks you guys,
Just returned my DR8EA for a DPRE7IX and E3.36. May as well try both.

[fairweasel2323]

I have the same scoot and same motor I am using a DPR7EA-9 but the scoot originally had a DPR8EA been told the DPR7EA-9 was a better plug going to get the iridium plug for her soon! But u can read in the manual for the Helix motor and it recommends the DPR7EA-9 and its what the sideplate of my scooter recommends so I am using it gapped at 9mm. I have heard alot of the China Scoots came with the NGK DPR8EA just so they can say it has a NGK even though it might not be the right plug for motor

[Gary]

My Bali has the NGK DPR7EIX (iridium). It seems to run fine. Replaced the plug once or twice in 16,000 miles.

[barry]

Thanks everybody

[nemesys]

Oct 2, 2010 0:24:22 GMT -5 onilegion said:

Hi Barry,

This link to the Honda Helix manual should give you all you need to know: mpsracing.net/helix-manual/01-04.html

Just look for the Electrical section and Spark Plug. It also gives the recommended gap range. The 3 NGK plugs are listed in 3 different "heat ranges". For example, of the 3 plugs, the DPR7EA-9 is the coolest running plug, so you would use it when your engine was producing it's highest prolonged heat output such as "extended high speed riding". For NGK plugs the number in the 4th position(or 3rd position if non-resistor) gives you the "heat range"; the higher the number, the "colder" the plug.

We use the Iridium version of the NGK DPR7EA-9. The part # is DPR7EIX-9. A decent place to get them is :

www.gmanindustries.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=558&idcategory=67

Hope this helps,
onilegion <><

I regularly ride for 30-45 mins at 60-65 mph on my JCL-MP250A. So, that would be the spark plug I would need on it, from what I read in your message?

[nemesys]

Oct 3, 2010 14:40:01 GMT -5 onilegion said:

We are aware that some China scoots came with a DR8EA installed. This does not mean that it is the optimal plug or even a correct plug. As many of us know numerous China scoots are assembled with questionable part substitutions. It also could be a questionable "upgrade" by the distributor/dealer so they can say "We replace the poor quality Chinese Torch plug with a genuine NGK plug".

More likely though is that since the MC-54 X (also some Bali-style scoots), was built with both both the Honda clone engine and the Yamaha (YP250) clone engine (which seems to be the predominant one they installed), they put the Yamaha/Linhai clone engine plug (which is an NGK DR8EA) into some of the scoots they built with the Honda/CFMOTO clone engines. See the following link for the correct plug for the Yamaha YP250 engine:

tinyurl.com/2ax4u8r


But take a look at the applications for the DR8EA and DR8EIX here and see if you can find the Honda Helix (you will not find the CFMOTO application data except in CFMOTO references, which we have already included).

www.cheapcycleparts.com/products/42882-ngk-spark-plugs-7162-spark-plugs-ngk-dr8ea-spark-plug



www.cheapcycleparts.com/products/42921-ngk-spark-plugs-6681-spark-plugs-ngk-dr8eix-ix-spark-plug

So you can either go with the recommendations of the engineers and technicians that designed, built, and tested your engine or you can just guess at the right plug.

Good grief, this is the most simple selection we can think of; just look at all the references for the DPR 5/6/7 EA/EIX -9 and then try to find an application reference for the DR8 EA/EIX that says it is for the CN250.

If you are just wanting to hear that the plug you bought is correct, well then just listen to... "The other answer I get a lot is "NGK DR8EA" " and be done with it.

We cannot think of any other way to demonstrate to you what the correct spark plug recommendations are, so now you must make your own decision.

Peace out,
onilegion <><

Damn, this is real confusing. I was attracted by the title of the thread "YY250". I thought that my JCL MP250A had a YY250 engine but I think it's the 257cc, not the 244 one. Which clone is it? If I want to replace the spark plug on mine, which one should I get and what the gap should be?

Thanks!

[madmanjustice]

Oct 5, 2010 15:45:11 GMT -5 nemesys said:

Damn, this is real confusing. I was attracted by the title of the thread "YY250". I thought that my JCL MP250A had a YY250 engine but I think it's the 257cc, not the 244 one. Which clone is it? If I want to replace the spark plug on mine, which one should I get and what the gap should be?

Thanks!

you could get the NGK DR8EA ,its Iridium equivilent or the E3.36

and if your avatar is your scoot, you have the Linhai engine.

[nemesys]

Oct 5, 2010 19:28:51 GMT -5 madmanjustice said:

Oct 5, 2010 15:45:11 GMT -5 nemesys said:

Damn, this is real confusing. I was attracted by the title of the thread "YY250". I thought that my JCL MP250A had a YY250 engine but I think it's the 257cc, not the 244 one. Which clone is it? If I want to replace the spark plug on mine, which one should I get and what the gap should be?

Thanks!

you could get the NGK DR8EA ,its Iridium equivilent or the E3.36

and if your avatar is your scoot, you have the Linhai engine.

Thanks madman for the clear answer. Yes, my avatar is my scooter, a JCL-MP250-A.

What should be the gap again?

[onilegion]

Oct 5, 2010 15:45:11 GMT -5 nemesys said:

Damn, this is real confusing. I was attracted by the title of the thread "YY250". I thought that my JCL MP250A had a YY250 engine but I think it's the 257cc, not the 244 one. Which clone is it? If I want to replace the spark plug on mine, which one should I get and what the gap should be?

Thanks!

Hi Nemesys,

Does the left side of your scooter look like:

(1)



or (2)



Pay particular attention to the shape of the CVT cover. The "JCL-250(A,E,O or whatever is the flavor of the week)" in the photo (1) has the 244cc Honda/CFMOTO clone engine, while photo (2) has the 257cc Yamaha/Linhai clone engine.

Which scoot is your's?
onilegion <><

[Gary]

Note also that the CVT cover on scooter (1) has only two bolts holding it on. Thats the Honda-copy engine. The CVT cover on scooter (2) has like six or eight bolts holding it on. Thats the Yamaha-copy engine.....

[nemesys]

Oct 6, 2010 4:18:07 GMT -5 onilegion said:

Oct 5, 2010 15:45:11 GMT -5 nemesys said:

Damn, this is real confusing. I was attracted by the title of the thread "YY250". I thought that my JCL MP250A had a YY250 engine but I think it's the 257cc, not the 244 one. Which clone is it? If I want to replace the spark plug on mine, which one should I get and what the gap should be?

Thanks!

Hi Nemesys,

Does the left side of your scooter look like:

(1)



or (2)



Pay particular attention to the shape of the CVT cover. The "JCL-250(A,E,O or whatever is the flavor of the week)" in the photo (1) has the 244cc Honda/CFMOTO clone engine, while photo (2) has the 257cc Yamaha/Linhai clone engine.

Which scoot is your's?
onilegion <><

Definitely the 2nd picture, so it's the Linhai clone engine. I need to write that down somewhere so that I'm not confused anymore.

Thanks!

[als01seville]

Onilegion,
On that first picture, are those speakers in the Glove box cubbie holes? and what do you have on the left side dash, is that an IPOD or radio or what? My Trike has the same body as those and I would like to put some music on my ride ;D
Alleyoop

[barry]

You can also tell by the muffler. If it's Chrome then it's a Honda Clone (244cc; CN250 - 172mm Helix engine). If the muffler is Black with a Chrome strip then it's the Yamaha (257cc) engine.
Looks like the gap (244cc) for the NGK is 9mm or .26 and for the E3.36 is .32 - .35

[barry]

;D Spark plug is Done and again, thanks everybody. Now I want to adjust my valves on my YY250T. Whats the best way for a guy who has to work in the parking lot..? My apt. complex hates when I do this. Maybe take the seat out to get access to the valves..? I saw where they were while I had the little access door off to replace the spark plug. Is there a fast way to do that..? And is it easier than remove the body..?

[onilegion]

Oct 6, 2010 19:47:44 GMT -5 barry said:

Looks like the gap (244cc) for the NGK is 9mm or .26 and for the E3.36 is .32 - .35

Hi Barry,

We are sorry that you didn't notice in the reference material that we linked to that the gap for the NGK DPR7EA-9 or DPR7EIX-9 is 0.9mm which converts to 0.035"; that is what the "-9" is indicating at the end of the product code.

Sorry we missed your post before you installed the plug (or maybe you installed the E 3.36 plug instead, that would be great ). In any case it is no big deal and is a very easy fix.

It is great that you've got some really killer plugs for your scoot now and we are sure that you will be very happy with the NGK DPR7EIX-9, once it is properly gapped.

As far as making the valve clearance adjustment easier, you do not have to remove any body parts. All the work can be done through the access door that you removed to replace the spark plug. A mechanic's mirror can be useful when indexing the small measurement lines on the adjusters to the fixed reference point on the cylinder head cover. Also depending on which method you choose, a wide blade flat screwdriver (or an inspection plug removal special tool) would be helpful for removing the inspection plug on the cylinder head cover in order to properly position the camshaft before adjusting the valves.

Here are three procedures for doing this adjustment with the least hassle possible:

(1) This is from the Helix service manual, and is performed when the engine is completely cold and not running.

mpsracing.net/helix-manual/03-06.html

(2) This is a method developed, and modified, by a couple of Dawgs (well one Dawg and one Dawgette) and while we have not used it ourselves, it looks fairly sound in principle if one follows the steps very accurately. Once again the engine needs to be cold and not running.

scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=tipsandtricks&action=display&thread=15019

(3) This method is the most simple but requires the most "feel" and "hearing" for reacting to the "feedback"(noise, vibration, rpm, smoothness of operation, etc.) that a small engine can give you. This method requires that the engine be FULLY warmed up (we would ride it around for at least 15-20 min before starting the adjustment) and running on the center-stand. NOTE: you do not have to remove the side panel, as stated in the procedure, as you will have all the room you need by using the access panel already mention above.

www.ch250.net/techtips/5.htm

If you take it slowly and carefully you should have no problem with this adjustment. But if you rush it or get sloppy there is the potential for permanent engine damage if the scoot is driven extensively with poorly adjusted valves.

Keep your stick on the ice, we're all pullin' for ya here,
onilegion <><

[nemesys]

Oct 6, 2010 19:47:44 GMT -5 barry said:

You can also tell by the muffler. If it's Chrome then it's a Honda Clone (244cc; CN250 - 172mm Helix engine). If the muffler is Black with a Chrome strip then it's the Yamaha (257cc) engine.
Looks like the gap (244cc) for the NGK is 9mm or .26 and for the E3.36 is .32 - .35

Nice. What about the 257cc?

[barry]

Sorry about that Onilegion, I thought I saw .26 somewhere in this post for the gap, I did set my gap at .35.
Problem: My hands a little to big to get to both valves through that little door. I have some very nice bruising on my hands from changing the spark plug. I may be able to do the one just left of the little door but the other one, to the left of the spark plug....I don't know if I can reach it. And like you say I really don't want to mess anything up.

[fairweasel2323]

Oct 6, 2010 19:47:44 GMT -5 barry said:

You can also tell by the muffler. If it's Chrome then it's a Honda Clone (244cc; CN250 - 172mm Helix engine). If the muffler is Black with a Chrome strip then it's the Yamaha (257cc) engine.
Looks like the gap (244cc) for the NGK is 9mm or .26 and for the E3.36 is .32 - .35

My muffler is Black and I have the 244cc Honda clone it has the chrome strip on it maybe u got that confused cause every Yahmaha clone I see has a all chrome exhaust? But I am using the DPR7EA-9 and gapped at 9mm

[fairweasel2323]

here is a picture of the CVT best way to tell the difference only 2 bolts for the cover ex actually like the original Honda Helix motor. But heres what my exhaust looks like and every other Honda clone I have seen has been the same unless they had a after market exhaust upgrade

[fairweasel2323]

heres a picture of a Roketa MC-54 with the Yamaha clone I would say both exhaust are black but the Yamaha clone has more chrome on it then the Honda's exhaust.