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Post by ksig2009 on Jun 22, 2010 0:53:30 GMT -5
Does it matter what battery size you use for a 150cc scooter? Can I use a 12V with 20Ah instead of the standard 12V 4-7Ah? I want to put a HID kit in it but was worry that it wont have enough power if I use a 4-7Ah battery. So can I use something bigger than a 7Ah like 18 Ah or 20Ah?
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Post by sprocket on Jun 22, 2010 17:18:31 GMT -5
Yes you can use a higher amp hour battery, but you need to get one that fits.
Also make certain it is a battery designed for starting...
That said, the battery runs some of the lights and the stator runs the headlights on AC on most scooters.
It isn't the battery capacity that is going to be a problem running HID lights. It is a matter
of how much power they draw and if the stator can produce it.
I would think if you add the HID lights to the DC battery circuit, they will draw more extra power than
the stator can produce to recharge the battery.
You probably run the risk of having the battery go flat every few days, blowing the regulator rectifier if the
HID lights have a large current draw, or perhaps cooking the stator...
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Post by ksig2009 on Jun 23, 2010 1:29:48 GMT -5
So what is the best way to wire my HID kit that produces 35w ? I have a 12V with 7Ah battery. Thanks, would you know how to wire one, if so, can you show me step to step, perhaps with pictures?
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Post by Bluefront on Jun 23, 2010 5:52:13 GMT -5
Probably the first thing to do (even before you buy the HID kit), is to determine if the DC charge system will handle that much extra current draw. That system will probably draw more than the 35w output.....hard to say how much. I'd bet 55W or so.....maybe you could find out.
To check.....you need a volt meter attached to the battery. With the engine revved to over 3k rpms, the voltage should be 13.5-14.5V or so. The battery is charging at that reading.
Next.....disconnect the head light, and attach a single 55w fog light direct to the battery. Now rev the engine and see what the volt reading is......you might have to rev slightly higher. If the volt reading stays well below 13V, the battery will gradually go dead as you're riding along with the HID going.
And it doesn't matter how big the battery is.....eventually it will go dead. It'll just take longer if it's a bigger battery. You'll be hooking up a battery charger all the time.....that gets to be a hassle.
Or.....if you do a lot of daytime driving, you could wire the HID through a switch to turn it off during the day. If you only drive occasionally at night, the battery might stay charged enough. Driving w/o a headlight is a safety issue however....even illegal in some states.
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Post by JR on Jun 23, 2010 6:13:51 GMT -5
Ho Hum more bad advice from the second hand man, first of all if you bulbs which a lot of 150 scooters are 35W, then you just simply install a 35W HID system, then it's apples for apples, 35W is 35W not matter what is pulling the load. And a 35W HID system will be a heck of a site brighter than the conventional scooter bulbs. Here's an awesome kit that works great on 150's and 250's alike; cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250628462794&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AITHere's a step by step on how to; scooterdoc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=structure&action=display&thread=981Now on the battery yea one can go to Wally World and buy one but you are right a higher AH battery will do better period and also remember the Cold Cranking Amps (CCA), if you get more than it's nice in the winter. I have a 14AH/ 225CCA on my scooter, can go weeks without running and always starts, no trickle charger. Now if you want to find a great battery from a great company then go here; www.apexbattery.com/Measure yours and then look at their batteries, heck mine was listed for a jet ski but the measurements were the same and it works great, will pay more but these people guarantee theirs for a full year no questions asked, unlike Wal Mart with the piss poor 6 month warranty. Again forget all the plug in a 55 W light BS and get a HID kit that is the same as your bulbs watt rating. I can tell you up front it won't handle 55W, LOL Besides like I said there are a lot of 35W HID kits out there that do an awesome job! Some people just have to prove things to themselves the hard way so again don't waste your time with useless tests that are going to fail to start with. This oh you'll have to keep it on a charger is BS, just install it correctly and the same rating. Remember 35W is 35W whether it is from a regular light bulb or a great HID kit, and if you're running any at night then the HID's are the only way to go. I've got a Bali 150 with a 8 coil stator, never have any issues with a weak battery. Also a complete LED change out of your other bulbs will add nice wattage back to your scooter that your are now just giving up with the standard bulbs for extra battery charging plus be a lot brighter too! Apples for apples, go for it! JRR |
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Post by Bluefront on Jun 23, 2010 8:16:41 GMT -5
^^^^^There are only a few people posting on Scootdawg who pretend to know everything. That's an example.... There's nothing wrong with making a few easy checks on your system to see if this sort of mod is workable, before spending money. Since there are so many unknown differences between the different Chinese 150 scoots, blanket statements covering them all are misleading at best......  |
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Post by sprocket on Jun 23, 2010 13:37:33 GMT -5
I have been thinking about doing this too..but I'm concerned about how hot they run...
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Post by Bluefront on Jun 23, 2010 14:57:45 GMT -5
The components of these kits are different, as are the bulbs, and everything else apparently. It's possible the seller would know everything.....but maybe not. Read over this posting about one type of kit. And yes the continuous current draw exceeds 35w on low beam and over 50w on high beam. And yes there is a distinct possibility of a melted lens...... Other kits may produce different results. You just never know.....  |
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Post by JR on Jun 23, 2010 15:51:19 GMT -5
The kit I listed is tried an proven and there are those here who have used others with great success, again apples for apples, if you would check them out instead of telling someone something you don't have a clue about then you would know instead of telling someone to do something as silly as hook up a 55W fog light to it! LOL BTW my 150CC has two bulbs both at 35W on high and low so that = 140W when both on high beam so if you could add you would know that a 55W test would be at the least silly.
And I'm sure just about everyone out there has a 55 W fog lamp laying around just waiting for this test.
Before you ask this or make the usual assumption that you always say as you have not seen it, two right off of the top ofmy head here who are experts on the HID hook ups are Monkeywrench and Cruiser66, both have had excellant results and have helped lots of dawgs on their scooter.
How would you know, have you installed one? Oh yes before you ask I have on two other scooters but not on mine, I don't ride at night but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to install a HID kit.
Cruiser66 even installed one that had very small ballast units and was easy to put in the tight area that is always on a scooter.
You hit the nail on the head, so when are you going to stop pretending to know anything?
You finally told the truth as usual you don't know.
Ksig2009 if you want to know about the proper and easy way to install nice workable HID's on your scooter PM myself, or Monkeywrench, or Cruiser66 and we'll be glad to help you, it's easy, affordable and doable. JRR
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Post by als01seville on Jun 23, 2010 16:17:19 GMT -5
My My My!! Bluefront and Jrryn that was not necessary, and it goes for anyone else. If your going to respond to something just state your opinion or thoughts or knowledge of the subject BUT DON'T PUT THEM DOWN just because you don't like them. Before you respond take a deep breath and keep your hatred and anger in control, be cool  Alleyoop |
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Post by cruiser66 on Jun 23, 2010 16:21:32 GMT -5
HID's run cooler than the equivalent wattage filament bulb. The reason is more of the energy is converted to light and less is converted to heat.
66
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Post by JR on Jun 23, 2010 16:26:34 GMT -5
Hey 66 can you list that link on your HID's, it has expired on the other site? You got the hi/low one right? JRR
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Post by sprocket on Jun 23, 2010 16:33:43 GMT -5
OK, I'm confused...jrryan
The incandescent bulbs I have are Phillips Duro and they are rated at 35 watts each. I assumed that this is 35 watts with both high and low beams burning? As I read what you said above, you are saying that it draws 35 watts on low and an additional 35 watts for high for a total of 70 watts per bulb, or 140 watts for both headlights.
Why then are the bulbs not rated as 70 watts, the maximum.
Also are you saying that the low beams are on and then when you hit the high beam switch both are on?
I'm just trying to get a handle on this...cause I have charging issues when my headlights are on continuously...
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Post by cruiser66 on Jun 23, 2010 21:03:05 GMT -5
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Post by JR on Jun 23, 2010 21:05:51 GMT -5
OK, I'm confused...jrryan The incandescent bulbs I have are Phillips Duro and they are rated at 35 watts each. I assumed that this is 35 watts with both high and low beams burning? As I read what you said above, you are saying that it draws 35 watts on low and an additional 35 watts for high for a total of 70 watts per bulb, or 140 watts for both headlights. Why then are the bulbs not rated as 70 watts, the maximum. Also are you saying that the low beams are on and then when you hit the high beam switch both are on? I'm just trying to get a handle on this...cause I have charging issues when my headlights are on continuously... You know Sprocket that's a very good point and question? Kind of made me think as I assumed that since they are set up very similar to a tail/stop light bulb that they would each have a watt rating as the standard 1157 is 5W/10W and you can easily test the watt/amp load on each side and see the difference. So with that in mind I just went out and did a little test on my 250B. I pulled the windsheild and front cover off ( I plan on doing a little PM anyway) so I could stick my hand down and unplug one of the 35W headlight bulbs and take some readings. Now I installed a digital volt meter on my 250B and mind you this test is not as good as one could get by actually plugging in a volt meter to test amp/watt load but it will at least give us an idea of the bulb watt load. So with that in mind I fired her up, let her warm up to a nice steady idle and took a volt meter reading with the headlight on the low beam position. She was charging at 14.25 volts steady. Switched it over to high beam and she dropped to 13.70 volts. I also revved the engine up some and the variable was about the same. So that = .55 volt loss from low beam to high beam. Now W= volts X amps so this is how I figured it and if I'm not right then all let me know. I'm presuming that the low side of the bulb = 35W by what I was thinking as I stated earlier so; 35W div by 14.25 = 2.45 amp 35W div by 13.70 = 2.55 amp That comes out to about 37W total. Now when I get some time I'm going to do a more accurate test as one could easily with all of the junk out of the way put their volt meter on the low and hi side circuit and test each one that way individually. So with both bulbs on one will have about 75W total by testing it crudely like I just did. Now keep in mind my 250B has a 18 pole stator and just for kicks I fired my Bali 150 up and it has a volt gauge of Chinese quality and one can for sure see the old needle drop from low to high beam and it has a 8 pole stator like a lot of 150cc scooters. I've never had a battery issue since I changed the entire system out to LED's and it the last time I checked ran steady at 14.5 volts and today was the first time I've started that scooter in at least 3 weeks and she fired right up. Now my wife has a nephew who last year bought a 150cc scooter that is his only means of transportation and he works the old 11 to 7 graveyard shift. Here in Arkieland you better be able to see at night on these roads as you'll be hitting a deer if you can't see and we converted his to HID's the kit kind of like this one; cgi.ebay.com/HID-Kit-Xenon-Conversion-H4-HI-LOW-Beam-Slim-Ballast-/230488816664?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35aa343c18This is the hi/low beam type kit and they work from low to high beam by the bulb being retractable and there are hundreds of these out on the market so one can shop around. He rides this 5 and 6 days a week at night and has for the past year, has never been stranded, as Cruiser said they run cooler, no melted lens and he can see at night. His scooter charges just fine and has never let him down. If I ever start riding at night I won't hesitate to convert and again for sure the poster of this thread asked about a battery and my reply is yes get a higher AH/CCA battery and if you're running at night, convert you bulbs to LED's and the headlights to HID's. JRR |
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Post by cruiser66 on Jun 23, 2010 21:12:40 GMT -5
OK, I'm confused...jrryan The incandescent bulbs I have are Phillips Duro and they are rated at 35 watts each. I assumed that this is 35 watts with both high and low beams burning? As I read what you said above, you are saying that it draws 35 watts on low and an additional 35 watts for high for a total of 70 watts per bulb, or 140 watts for both headlights. Why then are the bulbs not rated as 70 watts, the maximum. Also are you saying that the low beams are on and then when you hit the high beam switch both are on? I'm just trying to get a handle on this...cause I have charging issues when my headlights are on continuously... Hi sprocket, These are dual filament bulbs. The placement of the filament inside the bulb determines the high beam setting. Just one filament is used at a time so a 35 watt bulb is 35 watts on low beam or 35 watts on high beam. There may be some bulbs which use a higher wattage filament for the high beam which would also help it to appear brighter. So if you have 2 headlights, the total power is about 70 watts whether you are on high or low beam. On my 1978 GS1000, I could get both the high and low beam on together by sliding the high-low switch to the center. It sure did throw a lot of light for a single headlight, but I was worried about overloading the charging circuit so I didn't do this too often. 66 |
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Post by JR on Jun 23, 2010 21:42:29 GMT -5
So would it be safe to say 66 that the retractable hi/low bean HID's are set up the same way? Also just by the simple test I just did that confirms what you just said about the high beam maybe having a filament that is brighter thus drawing a little more watts too? JRR
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Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 24, 2010 0:20:47 GMT -5
Wow... confusing... but cruiser is right. If you notice on the packaging, most will say, "35/35". The low beam is focused down on the street in front of you, while the high beam looks out ahead for distance viewing. If you have a flasher pull switch on the left handlebar, you can activate both at the same time - the 35/35 becomes 70w. This can melt the plastic housings on some scooters, especially the VOG 260.
When I did the Phillips HID 35/35 on my 250, the load was exactly the same as the stock 35w bulbs, I checked both before and after.
-Rich
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Post by Bluefront on Jun 24, 2010 6:03:11 GMT -5
The whole thing about "will my battery go dead" when using an HID headlight, involves the charging ability of the system (assuming a good battery), and the total current draw of the system when driving with the lights on. Taking battery volt readings while the scooter is running with the lights on is a good/easy way to tell if the system is working normal. A reading of about 13.5-14.5V @ about 3K-4K rpms, and your battery should be charging ok. The trick is to determine how many extra watts draw the system can handle if you add extra lights, a sound system, a fan, etc. These HID kits have extra components that draw some current, called a ballast (exactly how much extra varies from kit to kit). If you disconnect a 35w headlight, and attach a separate 55w load (like a fog light)......you're only adding an extra 20W to the system. Will the system handle an extra 20W....the volt readings at the battery will give you a good idea. A 20W extra draw is not very much on a car.....but it might cause your system to discharge the battery on a scooter with it's relatively weak charge system. There's no real good way to tell in advance if this will happen, without doing some voltage testing with the extra draw. If you add an extra 20W (for instance), and the battery reading drops below 13V with the scooter revved up, you might be facing a dead battery, particularly in the winter months . You can do something about this by changing all the other bulbs to LEDs.....this will gain you some extra watts charging. But will it be enough to overcome an extra 20W draw? The only way to tell is to do voltage testing (or amp testing, but voltage tests reveal about the same thing here). Even after all your testing, exactly how your battery will handle the extra load, depends a lot on your driving......a bunch of slow driving with the brake lights on quite a bit, frequent starts with excessive cranking, using the horn and blinkers all the time......all contribute to a battery that might not be charging sufficiently. Now add an HID kit with an unknown extra current draw, and your starter might not work some morning. If you can find an HID kit with a known continuous current draw on low beam that is not much higher than your present low beam of 35W....you might be ok. But the systems I've seen only list the current draw of the bulb only......not the entire HID kit. If you missed it, read this article about one particular HID system......pay particular attention to how much extra current that "35W" HID system actually requires. Of course.....just buy an HID kit somebody recommends and install it. They don't usually cost that much. If you start having dead battery problems, you'll know what happened. A melted lens is another unknown factor.....you'll figure that out on the first hot day driving slowly in traffic. Remember....just because a particular HID kit works on "Joe's" scooter, doesn't mean it will work on your scooter. |
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Post by JR on Jun 24, 2010 6:53:16 GMT -5
Wow... confusing... but cruiser is right. If you notice on the packaging, most will say, "35/35". The low beam is focused down on the street in front of you, while the high beam looks out ahead for distance viewing. If you have a flasher pull switch on the left handlebar, you can activate both at the same time - the 35/35 becomes 70w. This can melt the plastic housings on some scooters, especially the VOG 260. When I did the Phillips HID 35/35 on my 250, the load was exactly the same as the stock 35w bulbs, I checked both before and after. -Rich Are you sure? ;D You'll now be the 3rd person who has said this? Did you do the 55W fog light test ? There have now been 3 people on this thread confirm the HID changeout and the name of another who has successfully changed theirs, no voltage problems, no melted lens, and I'm sure if the dawg asks everyone can give a link to the one they used with no problems. I can't remember the company that Monkeywrench bought his from but I think I remember it was folks who specialize in the application not one of the many ones that do work you can get off of Ebay. Again are you really sure? Just being sure because someone here just seems to think that it's going to end up in a total disaster and this dawg can't just take the word of those who have done it, have no trouble and most of all have better lights!! JRR |
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Post by ksig2009 on Jun 24, 2010 9:40:11 GMT -5
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Post by JR on Jun 24, 2010 10:06:46 GMT -5
I looked at this one and IMO you are better off with a kit that has the hi/low beams so you can have both the hi and low beam lights. Just put that in your search on Ebay for hi'low beam HID kits and a lot of them come up and choose what you think is best for you. As far as a picture write up I don't recall one here on this site but there is a great one here on the 250 tech site. scooterdoc.proboards.com/index.cgiIt will work the same on a 150 and the kit he used should too. JRR |
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Post by sprocket on Jun 24, 2010 10:43:45 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for your answers. Would be nice if they made LED headlights legal!
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Post by grandpascooter on Jun 24, 2010 15:42:11 GMT -5
regarding battery size, start by measuring your current battery, then determine if you can use a larger one in the same space. amps count guys! thats where the muscle comes from. don't go overboard on CCA ratings, but buy one at least double the Amp rating of the unit that came with your scoot!. remember, most Chinese scooters are assembled with minimum performance (read cheap!) parts. I spent the first week tearing my scoot apart and refastening everything. talk to your mechanic about a larger battery...you don't want to overtax the alternator.
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Post by JR on Jun 24, 2010 20:22:00 GMT -5
The size of the battery will have no bearing on the charging system. Also the AH rating is important as you said but if you are a cold weather rider like some there is a big difference from say a 160CCA battery and a 225CCA batery especially when it's 32 degrees outside, just like with your car or anything else. Low CCa's will leave you stranded on a cold day especially if the battery is the least amount under charged.
Besides it's not hard to have both, I bought a 14AH/225CCA battery that sit right in with no problem, it's about 2 years old and has never had a trickle charger on it or left me stranded and yes I ride in cold weather. JRR
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Post by cruiser66 on Jun 24, 2010 21:49:15 GMT -5
So would it be safe to say 66 that the retractable hi/low bean HID's are set up the same way? Also just by the simple test I just did that confirms what you just said about the high beam maybe having a filament that is brighter thus drawing a little more watts too? JRR Hi JRR, The HID lights are gas discharge bulbs, have no filaments, and have only a single source of light inside the bulb. The Hi-Lo HID kits achieve the 2 beam operation by mechanically moving the HID bulb up and down with a relay attached to the bulb base. Makes no difference in power whether you are on Hi or Lo beams. 66 |
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Post by JR on Jun 24, 2010 22:25:09 GMT -5
Well then 66 one would have to say for sure then not only are the HID's cooler they actually draw less current! I understand the way the hi/low works on this particular kit on the retraction, that's why I told him he would be better off with a kit like yours that has the hi/low beam.
I looked for a bit as there was a kit on Ebay that gave a good explanation and actually had a bulb doing the retraction from low to hi and I haven't come up on it again! LOL
Again if you ride at night this is the only way to go. JRR
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