Oil Cool?

[leroysunl]

Have SunL 150cc which, of course, is air cooled. Live in hot summer climate, can be 105 or even 110 degrees. Concerned about summer scooter cooling with all that hot air. Is oil cooler an option? If so, how to, where to find such a cooler, is this a worthwhile thing to do? TIA Leroy SunL

[qwertydude]

An oil cooler is an expensive option, not to mention you're not exactly guaranteed an easy installation if you have to drill your own pressure tap into the cylinder if it hasn't already been done and blocked off with a bolt. A better thing to do is run synthetic oil since the number one problem with heat is viscosity breakdown of the oil. If you get a good synthetic they can maintain their viscosity better at higher temps without breaking down or oxidizing. If you're going to be scooting in 100+ weather, which I've done in vegas blvd traffic on an air cooled motorcycle, which is even worse than a scooter because it has no forced air cooling. I could feel a loss in power as temperatures went up, checked the oil afterwards no breakdown or sludge formation, pulled the head, clean no varnish which is what would have been left behind with dino oil at such high temps. If you want even more protection try a 10w-50 synthetic, the bel ray stuff was made for hot running air cooled bikes like the infamous twin cam harleys which were known to cook oil into black sludge in no time.

[JR]

I installed a self designed oil cooler on my 150 Bali this past summer and another member did the same install on his trike recently and we both compared notes and averaged a 35 to 40 degree temp drop.

I did tests on 8 different popular oils including two synthetics and they are not only twice the cost but way overated. they both only helped to a drop of about 5 degrees. I conducted road tests with an accurate thermometer and again tested 8 different oils.

I rode the scooter the same route, same miles, same speed and all the tests were done on a Arkansas 95 degree day. Oil temps on a GY-6 on a 95+ degree day can reach up to 300 degrees depending on how you run it and your fuel/air set up which plays a part in engine cooling too.

Now if a 35 to 40 degree drop in oil temperature is not worth less than $125 to you then so be it but I can for sure tell the difference in the running on one of those 95 degree days with it on. It runs better! It'll run longer too! Heat is the number one enemy of the air cooled engine. JRR

[qwertydude]

You can't measure oil performance by the temperature drop. That will only determine the oil's specific heat capacity or thermal conductivity. What really matters is that your oil is not thinning out dangerously at higher temperatures, synthetic won't thin out dangerously. In fact conventional oil will start losing lubricity at about 240-260F degrees at which point it'll be thin as water but synthetics can easily tolerate 350F, it's why turbocharged engines need synthetics as the turbos can get the oil scorching hot and only synthetic will provide lubrication at those temps.

It's a common misconception that heat is the number one killer of engines, though it's not necessarily so, it's thermal breakdown of lubrication that kills engines. Keep the lubrication good and engines can easily tolerate those higher temperatures and more. You wouldn't believe how hot Smokey Yunic's adiabatic engine ran yet still was durable enough to make some rounds, and it was only possible because of synthetic oil because it sure would have cooked conventional.

[JR]

Apr 18, 2010 0:42:46 GMT -5 qwertydude said:

You can't measure oil performance by the temperature drop. That will only determine the oil's specific heat capacity or thermal conductivity. What really matters is that your oil is not thinning out dangerously at higher temperatures, synthetic won't thin out dangerously. In fact conventional oil will start losing lubricity at about 240-260F degrees at which point it'll be thin as water but synthetics can easily tolerate 350F, it's why turbocharged engines need synthetics as the turbos can get the oil scorching hot and only synthetic will provide lubrication at those temps.

It's a common misconception that heat is the number one killer of engines, though it's not necessarily so, it's thermal breakdown of lubrication that kills engines. Keep the lubrication good and engines can easily tolerate those higher temperatures and more. You wouldn't believe how hot Smokey Yunic's adiabatic engine ran yet still was durable enough to make some rounds, and it was only possible because of synthetic oil because it sure would have cooked conventional.

It's a common misconception that heat is the number one killer of engines

Well it's no misconception that a cooler running engine is a longer running engine, it's just common sense!1

Tell ya what if heat isn't the number one enemy then why the synthertic oil to try to keep it going at the 300+ temps? As I stated before I did oil temp test this past summer so I know due to this engines poor cooling fin design it runs very hot. If you can drop the temps by 40 degrees again it's just common sense it'll run better and longer.

I'll take this engine any day running at the 240 degree average with any kind of oil in it versus the 300 degree alternative. JRR

[tomcas]

Qwerty and jrryan both have good points but the real need for additional cooling is all based on riding conditions. You could cruise all day long in that heat without any problems. Now if you spent a lot of time creeping along at slow speeds and stopped at lights then additional cooling/and or using synthetic oil (and tranny fluid) is a good idea.

[scootertrash88]

Jrryan, just curious - How long did you ride without the oil cooler to get temps around 300? Just curious, as I do about 22 miles each way to work, mostly at 3/4 throttle. Thinking of looking up your cooler thread to keep the heat down. Thanks.
Sean

[JR]

MY test ride was exactly 10 miles on a 95+ degree day!! JRR

[scootertrash88]

I may need to install the cooler before summer then, with the SC heat and all.

[JR]

Apr 18, 2010 22:10:11 GMT -5 tomcas said:

Qwerty and jrryan both have good points but the real need for additional cooling is all based on riding conditions. You could cruise all day long in that heat without any problems. Now if you spent a lot of time creeping along at slow speeds and stopped at lights then additional cooling/and or using synthetic oil (and tranny fluid) is a good idea.

Ridiing conditions for me in the summer is 90's + and high huimidity not good and the cruising thing yea at maybe 45MPH but 55MPH plus you better have water cooled or stop and let the Gy-6 breathe a little along the way or cool it down with an oil cooler. Add the Ozark mountains to the equation and you're adding just that much more heat related stress.

If you even look at a lot of the smaller engines in autos today you'll find a lot of them with external oil and tranny coolers. Heck I even got my oill cooling condensor from an auto at a salvage yard. Some are even running coolers on the power steering lines!

The cooler you can run it the longer it'll run. JRR