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Post by worldtraveler100 on Oct 27, 2009 21:21:30 GMT -5
Ok guys, i'm saving up money to get my Triton a Christmas present. So how should i spend 500 ish dollars?
I am leaning toward a 90cc engine swap. It's bigger and i MAY be able to do it myself. But then i would not be able to buy much more than the engine. No new pipe etc...
OR
I could go the more technically difficult route with a 70cc kit, new pipe, new?, new? etc. This is way beyond my skill level, but i could afford to get more extras.
The goal is to get more pull up these Ozarks hills. Some of the ones i ride drop me to under 30mph. If i could just get up those same hills to 40mph and 50 in the flats that is all i need.
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Post by 2strokd on Oct 28, 2009 7:37:34 GMT -5
I 90c swap would offer you good torque even in stock trim (Vert can tell ya more about that), but aftermarket pipes, cylinders, and other aftermarket parts are a bit harder and more expensive. If you can get a deal on a 90cc swap and left it fairly stock it should last for quite a while without any major tuning issues. On the other hand, a good 70cc sport cylinder and pipe could be bought with all the tuning parts for your stock carb and cvt within your price range. We could help you through the process of putting a bb kit on your scooter and help you get the trans tuned for the power if you decide to go that route. The right cylinder-pipe combo with a good tune could net you around 10+hp all within your range.
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Post by 2strokd on Oct 28, 2009 7:38:40 GMT -5
Have you seen the video of my scoot with a sport kit and pipe, stock carb, and tuned cvt?
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 28, 2009 17:10:55 GMT -5
I think the 90cc engines would make a great choice for hilly terrain. Just pull out the old engine and put the 90 in. The 50 and 90 carbs were the same size on my scoots. The stock pipes were the same too. Same airbox. Same coil. Same CDI. They use the same spark plugs. It's about as simple as you can get to make more power. The 90cc might come with a larger cooling fan too. It would still be a good idea to check the jetting when you're done the swap, but otherwise you should be fine with just bolting it in. You would still have the option of adding performance parts later.
There are certainly 70cc kits out there as fast and faster than the 90s though. We could certainly help you with any questions you have along the way if you choose to go that route. I liked my 70, but I can;t compare it's torque to my 90. I needed to rev more to make it's power. 2strokd's scoot is very impressive doing wheelies to demonstrate it's power, but a lot of that is in his transmission too. Either the 70 or 90 will likely need trans tuning for best results.
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Post by worldtraveler100 on Oct 28, 2009 18:46:13 GMT -5
THANKS guys! You answered the exact questions and concerns that i have. Sounds like the 90cc is for me. So now the quest begins. 90 - I think you have instructions for removing and installing the motor. I will find and review those. Kid - I'm sure i did see your video but i"ll look for it again now that i am thinking about this process. Thanks again guys
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 28, 2009 21:01:11 GMT -5
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Post by worldtraveler100 on Oct 28, 2009 21:10:24 GMT -5
Above and beyond dude, always above and beyond! Bone for you yet again!
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 28, 2009 22:57:56 GMT -5
Thanks. Glad to help.
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Post by cjs on Oct 29, 2009 0:35:40 GMT -5
Vert, where would someone look for a 90cc (assuming this is a Minarelli style engine)? Also, do you know which 70cc kits are best for torque and which are best for top speed?
Thank you. -Chris
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 29, 2009 7:15:39 GMT -5
It is a minarelli style engine. PartsForScooters has them back in stock according to their site. www.partsforscooters.com/90cc-2-stroke-1PE40QMB-Engine?sc=9&category=597Sport cylinders should be better for torque. The Polini sport kit has a great reputation for torque. I know the Malossi sport kit is supposed to rev about 800RPM higher, but lacks a little torque compared to the Polini. The more race oriented cylinders want to rev high to make power. If you really wanna rev high, you'll probably want to consider a kit with a single piston ring rather than dual rings.
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Post by cjs on Oct 29, 2009 11:19:08 GMT -5
I am a bigger guy too, so I am looking for good get-up-and-go.
I think the 70cc kits allow you to get a more for your money if you are looking for a custom look, but the 90cc has got to be more reliable. If the rider was the same, what would be the speed difference between a Polini 70cc and a Chinese 90cc?
-Chris
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 29, 2009 13:02:32 GMT -5
I've never rode a Polini 70cc yet. 2strokd's scoot seems faster than my modded 90cc, but it also doesn't hurt that he's got deeper gears and he's got his transmission tuning down pat. I know my MRP 70cc Triton would do over 50MPH with me on it at 280lbs. It would still get up and go too. I used the stock carb and airbox with stock jetting and then just added 2000RPM clutch springs, a 1000RPM contra spring, and an MRP pipe. It was extremely reliable and not finicky at all with weather changes. It still got 60ish MPG. The stock 90cc should be pretty comparable to that, just doesn't have to rev as much. I think if you guys are used to 50s, either a 70 or a 90 would make you very happy.
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Post by cjs on Oct 29, 2009 23:55:36 GMT -5
I know when I had my old Puch moped I left everything stock and just added a nice pipe, it was like night and day! It only increased the speed a couple of MPH, but it got there at least 4 times faster than the stock pipe. I guess what I am saying is, I understand that either upgrade will definitely increase performance over stock.
Does anyone know of a 150cc being swapped onto a 50cc scooter? I have a Jog that really needs a lot of engine work and I think it would just be easier to swap a running engine on it, whether it is 90cc, 150cc, or whatever.
-Chris
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Post by 2strokd on Oct 30, 2009 8:29:06 GMT -5
The Polini Sport kit is a torquey lil beast. It combined with a good tuned cvt will leave you on the back tire more than you planed for . As far as high reving its not, but that just means the bottom end of your motor doesnt take so much abuse. My scooter doesnt see over 50mph much at all anymore but it gets there pretty quick, a lil quicker than in that video from late this summer
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Post by worldtraveler100 on Jan 12, 2010 22:51:24 GMT -5
Ok finally the update. I found a local Kymco dealer who would do a Prima 70 kit with CVT "tuning" for $310! Was a hard deal to pass up so i wen't that way. Christmas came late but the kit is finally on and the scoot is home. Going to be in the 40s tomorrow so i'll get my first ride on it. This is what came off it. Is that a lot of build up for only 1600 miles?
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Post by arigold on Jan 13, 2010 0:48:56 GMT -5
I can't wait to hear how it rode!
Let us know.
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Post by Scootless Wonder on Jan 13, 2010 8:55:33 GMT -5
Doesn't look like too much buildup. Remember, the 2T's burn their oil so there's going to be a bit more buildup in the cylinder and on the piston. I saw about as much buildup on my 4T that had a little less than 3k miles on it when I tore it apart.
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Post by 2strokd on Jan 13, 2010 9:12:21 GMT -5
Looks normal....Glad you got your bb kit in! Cant wait to hear how well she runs???
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 13, 2010 10:13:10 GMT -5
Looks normal to me as well. Keep us updated!
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Post by worldtraveler100 on Jan 13, 2010 19:43:25 GMT -5
Ok first ride report.
Not broken in yet and no transmission tuning. (decided to wait till it is broken in)
After warming it up for about 15 min i set off. Went about 4 blocks and lost power and died. Took a while to start but finally got it going. Ran fine the rest of the way to the office. So far i'd say at least 5 mph faster and much quicker to get there. But i'm still riding it conservatively.
Only problem so far is that at idle it sounds like a diesel truck. Doesn't stall just rough and loud.
All in all i think i"m gonna love this little upgrade. And i'm really liking the guys at Ozark Powersports who did the work. Gotta like a guy who has a sport bike but rides his scoot because it's more fun ;D
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 13, 2010 20:42:57 GMT -5
Hopefully it's a fluke, but losing power and dying worries me. That's what mine did when I was having tuning issues. That was soft seizing, showing me signs of overheating for various reasons. It might not be a bad idea to check your spark plug. Make sure it's not white, make sure it's not peppered. Listen for any signs of detonation when you ride or anything unusual. It may be nothing, just never hurts to check. Being louder is normal.
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Post by worldtraveler100 on Jan 13, 2010 21:56:15 GMT -5
Thanks Brent, It ran smooth as could be the rest of the day. No hesitancy or roughness at all. But it did scare me.
I went back and listened to your scoot videos, mine sounds close to what yours does so that mede be feel a bit better.
Lots going on for me with the Haiti thing but i"ll try to look at the plug tomorrow.
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Post by 2strokd on Jan 14, 2010 7:42:26 GMT -5
Glad you got your bb done. Might not be a bad idea to take it back to the guy that worked on it for a post breakin checkup. Course, like Vert said, a plug check would tell you a lot. Hope the best for the people in Haiti....They need all the help they can get. Thanks WT
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Post by benny122 on Jan 17, 2010 7:37:57 GMT -5
I also installed a 70kit and the exact same thing kept happening, losing power and engine cutting out. After a while it would start again. Then it started to, what sounded like, piston knock... After the mechanics inspected it they told me it was pretty much trashed! What could have caused this?!!?
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Post by worldtraveler100 on Jan 18, 2010 19:09:22 GMT -5
Ok first real ride today. Did about 20 miles in the country riding the Ozarks hills and 10 miles around town.
In town i am no longer being "pushed" by traffic. Comfortably quick from a stop so it never feels like people are waiting for me to get going.
In the country i"m pulling the hills consistently about 5 miles faster. On a slight upgrade i can actually accelerate and gain speed. That's a nice change.
We have not done the transmission tuning yet and it feels like i am running out of "gearing" before i'm out of power. About 8000rpm gets me to 38mph.
Probably got about 50 miles on the build.
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Post by 2strokd on Jan 18, 2010 19:58:24 GMT -5
Good, its running well then.?. Your right on track with the cvt tuning. Get that tuned well and that will help even more. Have you ever had the cover off? Just wondering if its still got the shim in the vari ? By removing that you can get some more mph w/out reving so high. The down side- it might take off a bit slower from a stop w/out the shim . There are so many factors into a GOOD cvt tune. I could go on and on, sorry ! Sounds like you have good low-end torque w/that kit.
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Post by worldtraveler100 on Jan 18, 2010 22:07:49 GMT -5
Yes it is running great. After that issue i had in the first half mile of riding i never had a problem again.
I put a kevlar belt on a couple of months ago and did not see anything that looked like a shim. I assume you are talking about something inside the vari that would keep the belt from going all the way to the shaft?
BTW forgot to say before that i got off my first good burnout today. Probably should not be doing that with only 50miles on it but just couldn't resist.
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Post by 2strokd on Jan 19, 2010 11:25:50 GMT -5
Yes it is running great. After that issue i had in the first half mile of riding i never had a problem again. I put a kevlar belt on a couple of months ago and did not see anything that looked like a shim. I assume you are talking about something inside the vari that would keep the belt from going all the way to the shaft? BTW forgot to say before that i got off my first good burnout today. Probably should not be doing that with only 50miles on it but just couldn't resist. Yeah, the shim keeps the belt from traveling up the vari all the way. A way of restricting from the factory . Cool ya did a burnout When we gonna see some smoky burnout vids ;D
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Post by worldtraveler100 on Jan 19, 2010 22:24:44 GMT -5
HA it IS about time for a new ride video. ;D
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