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Post by G-Bo on Aug 22, 2009 15:33:46 GMT -5
Ok, I have a question and then some more questions...
Just to clarify regarding the 250 class...
The MC-54-250 is the 244cc Honda Clone
The MC-54-250A is the 244cc Honda Clone(Is the 250A the same as the 250 just to differentiate from the 250B?)
The MC-54-250B is the 257cc Yamaha Clone
What is the difference between the MC class and the MP class?
My point of reference is the roketa.com and jclusa.com
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Post by widehide on Aug 22, 2009 17:05:12 GMT -5
The "P" model is the same scooter as the 250B, Both have the 257cc engine. jclusa is charging way too much for that scooter.
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Post by redpyro on Aug 22, 2009 17:11:50 GMT -5
so an MP-54-250 is the same thing as an MC-54-250B?
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Post by allworld on Aug 22, 2009 19:14:31 GMT -5
The name is "MC-54 250, MC-54 250B" are Roketa
I think the actual model it YY250T for the 244cc engine and I forget the 257cc engine,(YP250T?) Then there is the VOG style scooter which is 260XY. It is a mute point though. There used to be a difference in the wheel base dimension and the rear wheel, but I don't think that is the case anymore, both have 13" wheels. I have never ridden either of the 2 but think they are pretty much identical as far as performance goes.
I don't think there is a VOG style scooter with a 244cc engine.
Typically Jonway uses 244cc engine, and XINGYUE, uses a 257cc engine, but with Chines scooters nothing is etched in stone. Jonway is the parent company of JMStar and Shienk so I am sure they have turned out a few 257cc scooters.
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Post by JR on Aug 23, 2009 8:41:36 GMT -5
I'm going to say this one more time as it seems that folks just don't listen! I own both of these scooters, both red, both have the 257cc linhai clone and they are IDENTICAL down to the last nut and bolt!!! The Jonway JCL MP-250A is made by Benzho. The Roketa is made by Unique Industrial Trader Now when you order the Roketa and look at the service manual guess what? It's the same exact manual as in the Jonway and even says Benzho! So what does that tell you. Also this body style and let me repeat body style does come with a 244cc Honda clone also and I'm not sure but I think KillerMotorSports does have one with the 244cc also but I'm not sure on that one. Typically Jonway uses both engines not just the 244cc. I have also seen this body style myself with the 244cc engine but didn't know where it came from.  This is my Roketa MC-545-250B with the 257cc linhai clone and I added the saddle bags myself.  The scooter thats in front is my wifes JCL MP-250A with the 257cc linhai clone. If you see the MC-54-250 it is the 244cc engine. The B designates the linhai. But Caution there is a thread on this forum about the B and non B and you need to make sure the dealer knows what he is selling if you buy on line because a lot of these on line dealers actually don't have a clue to what the engine is SAD very SAD!! I can tell by just looking at the CVT cover and the muffler so take a look at the CVT covers on these scooters in the picture!! I have also seen a JCL-MP-250 with a 244cc engine. The Nothing is etched in stone is a very true statement so if you buy on line and are not sure MAKE the dealer send you detailed pictures if possible of what you're buying!! All this is starting to make me feel like the lady in this picture!!LOL JRR  |
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Post by widehide on Aug 23, 2009 12:53:50 GMT -5
Short story, MC-54-250 is the same body style as the MC-54-250B, they look the same plastic wise.
The difference is that the MC-54-250 has the 244cc engine, The MC-54-250B has a 257cc engine. From what I can tell it is harder to get to the valve adjustment on the 257cc engine.
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Post by JR on Aug 23, 2009 14:54:46 GMT -5
The valve adjustment on the linhai 257cc takes 15 minutes at the most after you spend and hour to get the stuff out of the way!! I know this scooter so well that I can do it in less than an hour! LOL JRR
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Post by widehide on Aug 23, 2009 15:09:28 GMT -5
jrryan, you are much more nimble than I. I have adjusted my wifes 54B 2 times and it still takes me start to stop about 3 hrs. Of course I weigh 265 and have artificial knee and hip, it takes me longer to get up from the floor than to do the work. Boy its too hot to ride here in Austin, hope you are getting in some rides.
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Post by JR on Aug 23, 2009 15:42:44 GMT -5
LOL Well I tell ya I don't know about the nimble as I have had both of my knees replaced call me titanium man now!! Light up the metal detectors at the airport!! LOL here's one thing that costs $10 at Wal-Mart that speds the job up a lot!! www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-AD600-Accessory-Assortment/dp/B000077CPQPlus I get all my tools that I need and I know them by heart laid out in front of me and get after it!! As you know after you get the plastic out of the way you just set it on the timing marks and after you remove the five 8mm valve cover bolts you're ready to adjust the valves!! We have finally got a break from the heat!! 61* this morning and at present it's only 85* right now!! Yes mama and I went for a ride yesterday and she even wore a little jacket!! Highs all week of mid 80's Whooopie!! Fixing to put out my fall garden and ride the scooter!! JRR |
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Post by fufu2wheel on Aug 24, 2009 10:37:54 GMT -5
The valve adjustment on the linhai 257cc takes 15 minutes at the most after you spend and hour to get the stuff out of the way!! I know this scooter so well that I can do it in less than an hour! LOL JRR Bah, I perform the valve adjustment on the 244cc engine in less than 5 minutes while it's running at operating temp. With a single tool and without removing any body parts from the scooter... of course I have skinny fingers/hands that allow me to reach narrow places... |
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Post by JR on Aug 24, 2009 13:36:17 GMT -5
The valve adjustment on the linhai 257cc takes 15 minutes at the most after you spend and hour to get the stuff out of the way!! I know this scooter so well that I can do it in less than an hour! LOL JRR Bah, I perform the valve adjustment on the 244cc engine in less than 5 minutes while it's running at operating temp. With a single tool and without removing any body parts from the scooter... of course I have skinny fingers/hands that allow me to reach narrow places... Skinny fingers huh?   Well I'll tell ya I'm just not impressed at all!! Yep no doubt 244cc fast and easy to adjust BUT....... come on up here in these old Arkie hills and I'll leave that old 244cc behind and be wating for ya at the top!! LOL JRR  |
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Post by rapidjim on Aug 24, 2009 13:50:42 GMT -5
As always jrryan is very articulate!
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Post by widehide on Aug 24, 2009 16:20:03 GMT -5
Great jewelery jerryan, I bet the Hells Angels steer clear of you.
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Post by cat0020 on Aug 24, 2009 16:31:10 GMT -5
Well I'll tell ya I'm just not impressed at all!! Yep no doubt 244cc fast and easy to adjust BUT....... come on up here in these old Arkie hills and I'll leave that old 244cc behind and be wating for ya at the top!! LOL JRR I'm impressed with the ease of valve adjusment on the 244cc engine. I don't know what hills or terrains have to do with valve adjustment? These scooters are not performance machines, whether one engine platform performs better for few seconds up a hill is no significant advantage over another, but 1/2 hour or 45 minute less time in valve adjustment is well worth few seconds on climbing a hill IMO. |
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Post by JR on Aug 25, 2009 0:42:41 GMT -5
Well I'll tell ya I'm just not impressed at all!! Yep no doubt 244cc fast and easy to adjust BUT....... come on up here in these old Arkie hills and I'll leave that old 244cc behind and be wating for ya at the top!! LOL JRR I'm impressed with the ease of valve adjusment on the 244cc engine. I don't know what hills or terrains have to do with valve adjustment? These scooters are not performance machines, whether one engine platform performs better for few seconds up a hill is no significant advantage over another, but 1/2 hour or 45 minute less time in valve adjustment is well worth few seconds on climbing a hill IMO. OK let me simplify it for you!! I've rode scooters with both engines in my area and I ride a lot in the Ozark mountains (hills) and the 257cc linhai will outpull and just flat outrun the 244cc CFMoto! To me it's only drawback is it takes longer to adjust the valves, Big Deal! Folks talk like Oh I've got to adjust my valves today before I go riding! LOL Normal routine adjustment around 1000 miles first time, my 250-B has ove 4k on it now and when it gets cold I'll probably do it again but it's not showing any signs at this point of needing it! Valve adjustment way over blown!! JRR |
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Post by fufu2wheel on Aug 25, 2009 8:24:57 GMT -5
I, too test rode the 257cc scooter before buying a 244cc scoot. In my area I feel the 257cc has no performance advantage. The shorter wheelbase of a 257cc engine scoot has less stability at higher speed, lower top speed and more cramped space for maintenance work.
I bought a scooter to ride, not to waste time on valve adjustments.
5 minute valve adjustment vs 45 minute or more.. it's a no brainer IMO.
I adjusted the valves on my 244cc engine at 3000 mi. mark, now close to 11,000 mi. also showing no sign that it needs another adjustment.
Way overblown issue? maybe, but at least I didn't loose as much riding time over valve adjustments when required.
BTW, 244cc valve adjustments are done when engine is at operating temperature, while running.. unlike the 257cc engine that have to wait until the engine is cold to perform, which requires more then 45 minutes..
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Post by JR on Aug 25, 2009 9:29:58 GMT -5
I, too test rode the 257cc scooter before buying a 244cc scoot. In my area I feel the 257cc has no performance advantage. The shorter wheelbase of a 257cc engine scoot has less stability at higher speed, lower top speed and more cramped space for maintenance work. I bought a scooter to ride, not to waste time on valve adjustments. 5 minute valve adjustment vs 45 minute or more.. it's a no brainer IMO. I adjusted the valves on my 244cc engine at 3000 mi. mark, now close to 11,000 mi. also showing no sign that it needs another adjustment. Way overblown issue? maybe, but at least I didn't loose as much riding time over valve adjustments when required. BTW, 244cc valve adjustments are done when engine is at operating temperature, while running.. unlike the 257cc engine that have to wait until the engine is cold to perform, which requires more then 45 minutes.. Anytime you want to test the lower speed theory bring it on!! Mine will do 84 MPH GPS tested and again I'll challenge you to a race up good old highway 7 in Arkieland ! But when you do get ready for some of this;  and this;  Lets also do it on a 95*+ day! Shorter wheel base 1" big deal!! Oh and I'm wasting all of 40 minutes riding time to adjust my valves the one time I've did it at 1000 miles, you don't read very good! And I just pull up and say Oh golly gee I've got to let my scooter cool off because I've got to waste all of my riding time adjusting the valves as I have to do it so Often!! Geeeeeze Get a Grip! Poor Poor me I should have got a 244cc so I could adjust the valves with the engine hot and maybe even burn my skinny fingers!! Wow what a thought! BTW I can adjust the valves with only removing one plastic panel a little uncomfortable but saves a lot of time! Just remember the old saying of PUT UP or Shut Up! Now I'm telling you point blank and BTW don't have one bit of trouble with stability on my poor little 1" shorter scooter, the 244cc will not out run or out pull the 257cc on flat ground or in these good old Arkie hills and when you're ready to put your money where your mouth is bring her up here! As I said I rode both of them up here so I'm not guessing or just wondering, point blank I know!! I've got a full tank of gas a waiting and BTW the valves are just fine so make sure you do your 5 minute adjustment before ya come would hate for you to miss the wonderful scenery up in the beautiful Ozarks having to adjust the valves!! LOL Me I'm retired so I can do mine as I please even at night so I won't be wasting those precious 40 minutes!! JRR |
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Post by fufu2wheel on Aug 25, 2009 10:19:15 GMT -5
;D I find it amusing how you get all worked up over this. I don't ride a scooter because I want to get anywhere "fast", the whole concept of you wanting to prove that 257cc is "faster" than 244cc scoot seems just laughable to me, regardless of how fast youcan get your scooter up to travel, it's still a scooter. I ride a scooter because it requires less maintenance, speed and hill climb capabilities are not as much of a priority; if they are for you, great. Personally, I could careless. ;D Enjoy your nice scenery, I'd enjoy riding when you're working on your scoot in your nice scenery. ;D Anytime you want to test the lower speed theory bring it on!! Mine will do 84 MPH GPS tested and again I'll challenge you to a race up good old highway 7 in Arkieland ! But when you do get ready for some of this; and this; Lets also do it on a 95*+ day! Shorter wheel base 1" big deal!! Oh and I'm wasting all of 40 minutes riding time to adjust my valves the one time I've did it at 1000 miles, you don't read very good! And I just pull up and say Oh golly gee I've got to let my scooter cool off because I've got to waste all of my riding time adjusting the valves as I have to do it so Often!! Geeeeeze Get a Grip! Poor Poor me I should have got a 244cc so I could adjust the valves with the engine hot and maybe even burn my skinny fingers!! Wow what a thought! BTW I can adjust the valves with only removing one plastic panel a little uncomfortable but saves a lot of time! Just remember the old saying of PUT UP or Shut Up! Now I'm telling you point blank and BTW don't have one bit of trouble with stability on my poor little 1" shorter scooter, the 244cc will not out run or out pull the 257cc on flat ground or in these good old Arkie hills and when you're ready to put your money where your mouth is bring her up here! As I said I rode both of them up here so I'm not guessing or just wondering, point blank I know!! I've got a full tank of gas a waiting and BTW the valves are just fine so make sure you do your 5 minute adjustment before ya come would hate for you to miss the wonderful scenery up in the beautiful Ozarks having to adjust the valves!! LOL Me I'm retired so I can do mine as I please even at night so I won't be wasting those precious 40 minutes!! JRR |
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Post by harrywr2 on Aug 25, 2009 10:53:58 GMT -5
Circa 1980's Honda Civic's needed their valves adjusted at the 500 mile service.
Somehow they managed to get a reputation as a "high quality" automobile.
pre '07 Burgman 400's needed fairly frequent valve adjustment as well, and it was a major PITA.
Still they were considered one of the best scooters on the market.
Maintenance on any scooter is going to be a pain, as the body panels get in the way.
If you think valve adjustment on a Linhai is a PITA then don't even think about a Burgman or Silverwing...granted it doesn't need to be done as often...but it's a 2 hour job for an experienced, trained mechanic with all the proper tools when it does need to be done.
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Post by JR on Aug 25, 2009 11:08:49 GMT -5
I, too test rode the 257cc scooter before buying a 244cc scoot. In my area I feel the 257cc has no performance advantage. The shorter wheelbase of a 257cc engine scoot has less stability at higher speed, lower top speed and more cramped space for maintenance work. I bought a scooter to ride, not to waste time on valve adjustments. 5 minute valve adjustment vs 45 minute or more.. it's a no brainer IMO. I adjusted the valves on my 244cc engine at 3000 mi. mark, now close to 11,000 mi. also showing no sign that it needs another adjustment. Way overblown issue? maybe, but at least I didn't loose as much riding time over valve adjustments when required. BTW, 244cc valve adjustments are done when engine is at operating temperature, while running.. unlike the 257cc engine that have to wait until the engine is cold to perform, which requires more then 45 minutes.. Hello!!!! Here is the statement about less comfort and lower speed that YOU mentioned! LOL Sounds like ya really know what you're talking about as you test rode one! LOL Again anyone can get on a scooter and say they know something about it on a test run! What I'm trying to say is if you want to put them to the real in the riding test then come where the scenery is wonderful!! No doubt!! And while you at it bring that little fan with you so you can enjoy the scenery while cooling off the 244cc scooter of your's on the side of the road!! LOL I'll be up at the next little shop enjoying a soad pop and a big piece of apple pie while I wait for you to catch up! Also up here in these hills you need to be on the look out for one of these while your fanning the scooter!!  Real mean ugly critters, been known to chew up anything that gets in the way just like these!!  Don't ya just love RED!! JRR |
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Post by fufu2wheel on Aug 25, 2009 13:05:58 GMT -5
If you want to prove your point so badly, why don't you come to me?
I'm just outside of Philly, with your 257cc scoot cruising at top speed of 84 mpg accourding to your GPS, that shouldn't be more than a day's travel. You're retired, right? should have plenty of time on your hands to prove a point.
I'll even out you up in a local motel for a night, my treat..
I'll even let you do your valve adjustment prior to a performance showdown against my 244cc scoot. ;D
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Post by JR on Aug 25, 2009 14:38:06 GMT -5
www.scooterdepot.us/files/videos/video-mc-sl2203.htmlWhy in the world would I want to leave the peaceful pretty life in the lovely Ozarks and come to a place like Philly? Yicccck! I don't have anything to prove. I didn't make the staement of less power and top end on one little test drive so as I said before prove it to me! I didn't just take a little 5 or 10 minute test drive on each scooter. I actually bought a 244cc scooter for a short time as a possible scooter for my wife when she decided she wanted a 250 scooter. Bought it with 800 miles on it and fixed the silly wiring problems and oh yes adjusted the valves because the previuos owner didn't know squat about scooters. We took both scooters up in the mountains and went camping and after 3 days of riding my wife decided she liked the linhai better and after riding it awhile myself she was right it just didn't perform as well! Now I didn't say it performed badly just not as well as the 257cc. I have nothing against the 244cc, good reliable engine but after you ride with the linhai for a spell you'll not want to go to the 244cc. Just like Harry said a lot of name brand scooters are a PITA to work on, the 244cc has some things on that point that is nice but it just doesn't have the umph to stay up or out perform the linhai on any terrain flat or hilly stock to stock. Now I'm sure you could fine me a lovely roach coach to stay in at Philly but no thanks, but if you would like to see the good life and just get up to the sound of peace and quiet and not all the smog, pollutuion and noise of Philly then come on over to " The Natural State" and I'll find a place like this to put ya up!  Some people just know how to decorate!! LOL JRR
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Post by fufu2wheel on Aug 25, 2009 15:07:59 GMT -5
 Too chikcken to leave your nest?? 
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Post by JR on Aug 25, 2009 15:21:57 GMT -5
 Nope just don't like being around all the thugs in the big city!! In fact just don't like to leave places like this;  and going to places with people like this;  |
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Post by cat0020 on Aug 25, 2009 16:57:51 GMT -5
257cc vs 244cc, there is no doubt which one should be faster up a hill, but I have to agree, riding a scooter is certainly not about being "fast"..
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Post by JR on Aug 25, 2009 19:08:07 GMT -5
257cc vs 244cc, there is no doubt which one should be faster up a hill, but I have to agree, riding a scooter is certainly not about being "fast".. Totally agree as I ride mine the speed limit but if you look around on all the threads you'll see people in all classes trying make them run faster from the 50's to yes even this 257cc. Faster can also be described as more torque and power. I ride a lot in the Ozarks and welcome the extra pulling power when you are going up say petit Jean Mt. From the bottom to the top in a 1-1/4 mile stretch one goes up over 900 ft in sea level! Then over the top of the mountain to a valley and up again! Even with dropping weights a variator change it's really tough on a 150 and as I said my 257cc would flat pull away from the 244cc going up this mountain. On state highways around here one finds a lot of slower traffic and it's nice to hit the throttle on the 257cc and get on around a cager if need be. Again not talk but rode them both in the same situations same hills and the 257cc out performed the 244cc even in these hard climbs got better MPG. Which ever engine one choose they are both winners but it seems like all of the 244cc lovers are stuck on this Oooooh don't get the hard to adjust valve linhai!! Oooooh the oil drain plug is on the bottom!! Ooooh!! Ooooh! The sky is falling!! You're going to have to sit and wait for it to cool as you have to adjust the valves so many times before ya ride it!! Oooooh!! You might have a cardiac arrest on the hour you lost adjusting the valves when you could have been riding!! never mind you can do it on a cold or rainy day when you don't want to ride any way!! Ooooh! Sure hope none here ever want to own or restore an old car or antique say like the 62 Chevy Custom truck with the old 235 six cylinder. Adjusting the valves is routine maintenance and the only way ya know is when they're a clacking!! LOL Not hard but got to be done. Question is how much time do you lose doing it? JRR |
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Post by fufu2wheel on Aug 26, 2009 15:03:45 GMT -5
IMO those who don't know better are the ones that keep looking to gain performance out of their Chinese scooters. These Chinese scooters are disposable when they suffer catastrophic failures.
Operating a Chinese scooter at speed of 84 mph according to GPS and modifying the engine to gain performance is more likely to reduce the engine's life expectancy and cause catastrophic failure.
Money could be better spent on other vehicles if one's desire is going fast without reducing the life expectancy of the engine.
If many threads are talking about jumping off a bridge with their scooters, would you do it, too?
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Post by JR on Aug 26, 2009 22:07:14 GMT -5
Don't have any intention of modifying my 250, don't need to and for sure don't ride at the max it will go. Only tested it one time way back when a lot of folks were checking their scooters and comparing. Point blank 84 MPh on any scooter is scary and me I like the nice and smooth calm 50 to 55 MPH. Have had it up to the higher 60's just a crusing on some roads but was just not paying attention because I was enjoying the ride so much! LOL!
I did work on the 150 some and did get some better performance out of it but the mods I done were not for speed but for lower RPM on the engine, more pulling power and better MPG which is a good thing, not interested in going too fast!
But I do travel and ride in a lot of different terrain and extra power and torque do come in handy like if you're pulling one of these long steep hills and a cager wants to ride up your butt. Man I hate it when they do that! On my scooter I can run the hills at the safest and best speed instead of just being able to crawl over the hill. Before I di modify the 150 on some of these places went like to ride it would slow down to as slow as 30 mph and sometimes the cagers would ride up the wifes tail making her very nervous. Don't have that problem now with her new 257cc. But the 150 will now pull some of the same hills at 50 mph but I still ride it at the speed limit and not at WOT. Want my scooters to last a long time! Take care of them and ride them right! JRR
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Post by madmanjustice on Aug 26, 2009 22:39:46 GMT -5
since neither one of you will go to the other to race to prove your points...
You can each take your scoots to the local drag strips during track day and run the quarter mile. Then post your times here for us to all compare.
Rules for the challenge as follows.
1) The weigh in.
Each competitor will weigh in with their weight in full riding gear plus the weight of their scooter.
Whoever has the lighter combined weight, will add the difference in ballast to their scoot to make the weights even. (ie: if rider A's total weight is 475lbs and rider B is 500lbs, then rider A will need to add 25lbs of ballast to their scoot.
2) Track night.
Each competitor will make 3 timed passes down the track. The times will then be averaged to determine the final presented time. All passes must be video taped and posted to youtube with the elapsed time shown clearly in the video.
3) once each competitor has done the above, the results will be posted here for the judges to see. The judges will then announce the winner. The decision of the judges is final.
4) The winner will get a hand drawn picture of their scooter done by my unborn grand daughter when she is 2 years old (in 2011). The winner is responsible for reminding me to get her to draw the picture.
Any questions?
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Post by JR on Aug 26, 2009 23:07:26 GMT -5
since neither one of you will go to the other to race to prove your points... You can each take your scoots to the local drag strips during track day and run the quarter mile. Then post your times here for us to all compare. Rules for the challenge as follows. 1) The weigh in. Each competitor will weigh in with their weight in full riding gear plus the weight of their scooter. Whoever has the lighter combined weight, will add the difference in ballast to their scoot to make the weights even. (ie: if rider A's total weight is 475lbs and rider B is 500lbs, then rider A will need to add 25lbs of ballast to their scoot. 2) Track night. Each competitor will make 3 timed passes down the track. The times will then be averaged to determine the final presented time. All passes must be video taped and posted to youtube with the elapsed time shown clearly in the video. 3) once each competitor has done the above, the results will be posted here for the judges to see. The judges will then announce the winner. The decision of the judges is final. 4) The winner will get a hand drawn picture of their scooter done by my unborn grand daughter when she is 2 years old (in 2011). The winner is responsible for reminding me to get her to draw the picture. Any questions?[/quot Add one! My new grandbaby will be two in 2011 so she gets to help!! LOL I like it!! JRR |
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Too chikcken to leave your nest??