|
Post by usfmarine on Jun 4, 2009 17:32:58 GMT -5
Is this the scooter you bought? www.gsmotorworks.com/detail.cfm?id=779Did you pay $1199 per scooter? I'm surprised that GSMW does not advertise that these are ZNENs on their website. Seems to be a good selling point.
|
|
|
Post by kz1000st on Jun 4, 2009 19:25:28 GMT -5
"Unfortunately, there aren't enough independant testers, on this side of the Atlantic, to keep some of the more extravagant claims, either in check, or verified, as should be."
kliff brungs up a point I've long stated. That there's no real verification until someone actually road tests one of these things. Read this month's Cycle World to see what I mean. They did a short test of the Piaggio BV Tourer 250. Oh yes it does 85 mph and is stable on its 16 inch wheels. But 40 mpg from a 250cc scooter. My motorcycles do way better than that! They also said the scooter could use better dampening control in its suspension. What? Piaggio hasn't been around long enough? The point here is that until a Cycle World or Motorcyclist throws a TNG, Redstreak, Flyscooter, Eagle, CF Moto, QLink, Roketa, Yamaha, Kymco, SYM, Adly, TGB, Genuine, Honda, Vespa.....and any other 150 into the mix, all this discussion is just.....discussion. I mean wouldn't it be a hoot if at the end of the day the editors voted for an Adly Thunderbike 150 as best overall? No, as kliff says, until someone without an axe to grind looks into a bunch of scooters and says,"This is best," or "these two are equal" I've got to see a "top level Znen" up close to see the difference. I can't help wondering if it's just ad copy.
|
|
|
Post by bigbottom on Jun 4, 2009 19:33:23 GMT -5
ZNEN offers five different levels of quality in their scooters. The level of quality in a ZNEN scooters is determined by the level that the brand name orders from ZNEN. Flyscooters buys one of the higher levels that ZNEN offers. But just because another brand of scooter sources their scooters from ZNEN does not mean that the brand is the same level of quality as Flyscooters. If the scooter is sold cheaper it's safe to assume the brand orders a lower level of quality from ZNEN. What really amazes me about that statement, and I've read it before too, is the only ones making it, are the one's it serves the best....FLY So if we start beleiving everything the manufacturer tells us, then there would be no reason to buy anything but that which can be purported as the best of the best, even though those reports are also, HEAVILY biassed. Unfortunately, there aren't enough independant testers, on this side of the Atlantic, to keep some of the more extravagant claims, either in check, or verified, as should be. If you really need to verify it, then contact ZNEN, tell them you have $100K, and are looking for them to be the manufacturer of your new brand of scooter. They'll be glad to tell you the options they offer. As for extravagant claims, claiming that Eagle has just as much quality as a Flyscooter for the sole reason that they're both manufactured by ZNEN is by definition an extravagant claim. In fact, GSMW doesn't even make that claim. It's a claim born on internet forums. And there are plenty of reasons to buy something other than the best. In fact, if the only reason one has to buy a scooter is that it's the best of the best, no one would by a Flyscooter. It's not the best. Arguably, the best of the best scooters are Vespa, Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha. There's absolutely nothing wrong with buying less than the best. That's why the market offers different levels of scooters at different levels of pricing. What is wrong is claiming two products are of the same quality simply because they are manufactured at the same plant, when it can be easily verified that the plant offers different levels of quality to its customers (in this case the brands that buy from ZNEN). Ride safe, kliff.
|
|
|
Post by xs650 on Jun 4, 2009 19:46:38 GMT -5
Bigbottom,
You're the one that made the claim that they have 5 levels of quality, surely you have something to back it up.
Or are you just guessing?
|
|
|
Post by usfmarine on Jun 4, 2009 20:20:07 GMT -5
Have you noticed each ZNEN importer claims to have "a quality control guy" overseeing their brand at the ZNEN factory. I've heard this claim from Flyscooter, Lance, and the Valley Scooter "Motorino" rebadged brand.
Based on seeing several ZNENs with different stickers on them, I must say ZNEN = ZNEN in my book.
|
|
|
Post by jspringator on Jun 4, 2009 20:33:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Cookees on Jun 4, 2009 20:34:25 GMT -5
The old GM used to make Corvettes, Cadillacs, Chevettes, and Vegas.
Point taken?
|
|
|
Post by xs650 on Jun 4, 2009 21:26:41 GMT -5
Have you noticed each ZNEN importer claims to have "a quality control guy" overseeing their brand at the ZNEN factory. I've heard this claim from Flyscooter, ZNEN, and the Valley Scooter "Motorino" rebadged brand. Based on seeing several ZNENs with different stickers on them, I must say ZNEN = ZNEN in my book. They hire a local guy, the plant managers illegitimate 1/2 brother.
|
|
|
Post by bigbottom on Jun 4, 2009 22:44:08 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by kz1000st on Jun 5, 2009 3:27:24 GMT -5
"Anyone know anything about this 250 at GSMW?"
Yes, It's called an MP 250A. Don't quote me or Bigbottom will call me a shill but it's a high quality scooter made in its own factory in China with all sorts of inspection. It has the 257cc Linhai Yamaha motor and all the options GMSW says it has (Japanese carb, Gates belt, etc.), hence the reason it costs more than a Roketa MC54 250B. It's a better scooter. Do the research, put MP250A in your search engine and you'll see what I mean. There's a guy on 250 and up Kuzikihood (or something like that) who has one, check him out if he answers.
|
|
|
Post by kz1000st on Jun 5, 2009 4:13:06 GMT -5
OK Bigbottom, since you've decided to drag the Big Guy into this let me dispute some of his words.
It's up to you. Your best bet is to find a reputable dealer with a good build and good service and support and pay the extra $400 - $500. You truly do get what you pay for! As an example, we sell the Tmax clone - the Red Streak Rave for $1999. You can buy a similar one for $1499 online.
He quotes the Redstreak Rave here as an example as the price difference between a B & M bought scoot and one online. Want to know what he charges for a Flyscooter La Vie? $2500. Yes the same scooter that Avtech bought for $1199. Now tell me what the people at the Znen factory are putting in that makes it worth twice as much?
Here's what I have to say. I know what goes inside these 150cc scooters. Mine was assembeled at an assembly plant. That's what Bashan is, an assembly plant. GSM specs parts, that's what goes in. Mine has an aluminum intake manifold, mine has a Japanese carburetor, mine has electrical connectors with snaps to hold them together. Do I know what kind of bearings, rings and seals are in the engine? No. kliff didn't see fit to replace my valves when he did my springs so they MUST be ok. All this stuff about $300 or $600 STOCK GY6 engines, well I'd have to see the laundry list for those parts. As for Chinese bearings, well my kids bicycles have Chinese bearings and seem to holding up just fine with little maintenance. I'm changing oil every 500 miles.
As far as I'm concerned This Flyscooters stuff is just smoke and mirrors. The scoots are bought in B & Ms where a dealer takes care of them. He's the one who sees how they really are, because he knows. Out here in online scooter land guys like kliff and me with looooooooong histories of working on motorcycles can tell whether our scoots are junk or not. I say mine is not. Over 50 years of working with my Dad and working on my own says it's not. What's really gonna bite for the Flyscooter Battalion is when kliff is cranking up large miles on his Bashan Tracer 150 without a care in the world. Yesterday I did 52 miles without a hitch. Do I need a $2500 top 5 level Znen to do that? Time and miles, not brochures, will flesh out which is the best China scoot.
Let me ask you this? If Flyscooter is so good, why are all these Il Bello owners changing to electric fuel pumps? The top 5 fuel pumps they're getting not good enough.
|
|
|
Post by xs650 on Jun 5, 2009 10:11:49 GMT -5
That's as useful as asking a car a salesman about his competition.
|
|
|
Post by bigbottom on Jun 5, 2009 10:35:20 GMT -5
"From a guy who sells ZNEN...." YEAH BUDDY....no offense to Big Guy, but that's about as UNBIASED a sales pitch as you'd ever find, now ain't it! Listen to marine...."ZNEN=ZNEN" I take that to mean, nothing more, nothing less, an HONEST observation, from someone without enough experience to even throw out an opinion, on the brand he rides. You ride/own a Roketa, if I'm not mistaken BB, I ride EAGLES.... difference being I HAVE had my hands on a couple of ZNENs, as in doing repair work, and I have as yet to see anything that puts them anywhere above an EAGLE. Please explain to me, your experience with ZNEN. I don't need to falsely represent myself to anyone to get answers, I get out do research and get my hands dirty. Your research comes from.... Aaaaarghhh, what the hell, this is going to degrade to nothing more than another sh!t slinging contest. Y'all do what you want, buy what you want, and think what you please, it's a free country. Be happy, with your choices, and do your homework well. This brand name banter ain't worth the heartburn. I'll answer questions directed toward me on any brand, I have factual knowledge, but volunteering input....forget it. Not on this forum, not about brands. The claim ZNEN=ZNEN is just not true. There's no doubt in my mind that Eagle is better quality than a Roketa. That's not hard to do. Roketa's lack of quality makes it increbibly easy to be beaten. I checked out a Flyscooter from the local dealer before ordering my Roketa. Fly is a much higher quality, and I suspect that Eagle would be too. But to insinuate that any scooter that ZNEN produces is all the same quality simply is not true. ZNEN will produce the quality the brand orders. In this doesn't just hold true to ZNEN. Pretty much any chinese manufacturer will produce the quality that the importer is willing to pay for in their brand.
|
|
|
Post by dishe on Jun 5, 2009 10:48:55 GMT -5
I gotta agree with Big Bottom on this one... Tazhou (sp?) Chaunl manufactures a whole bunch of 150 "Adventurer" scoots- some get the Tank or Longbo name on them. Others, like the one I had, were branded SunL. I've seen folks on this board with LongBos who claim their scoot has been just great... but mine, spec'ed out by SunL, has tons of cut corners. For crying out loud, all my muffler rivets fell out within a few months of being new. That's preposterous, even for a china bike. SunL just cut enough corners to get bikes made for the lowest possible bidding point, unlike the other importers.
On the other hand, GSMW/Eagle seems to care about their brand. They claim on their site to spec things higher. To me, that means that I'm not worried about all the cut corners that I was with SunL, however that doesn't mean Fly and Eagle spec them the same.
And to the poster who asked why they don't advertise ZNEN because you'd think that would make a good advertising point... its for this very reason. Manufacturer tells you something, but the importer does make a difference. I HAVE seen it at least firsthand with Chaunl and have no reason to think ZNEN is any different.
|
|
|
Post by kz1000st on Jun 5, 2009 12:15:29 GMT -5
"But to insinuate that any scooter that ZNEN produces is all the same quality simply is not true. ZNEN will produce the quality the brand orders."Uh hello, and why do you think we're saying that we think a GSM ordered scoot is a high class item? ? BECAUSE kliff and I have seen the inside of scooters that GSM has sourced, unlike you. So without all the hoopla of 24 hour inspection that Flyscooters is claiming we're saying that a Znen scooter from GSM can be as good as a marked up one. Do I have to go through what's inside my Bashan again or will you just go back to my former post? Or did you just ignore it since it doesn't agree with you?
|
|
|
Post by usfmarine on Jun 5, 2009 12:33:31 GMT -5
I have a 2008 Flyscooters il bello, I disassembled/reassembled everything on it except for the CVT. I am very familiar with it and how it was put together. Concerning Flyscooters 'top-of-the-line' quality, I must note that the first time I took the seat off one of the seat bolts broken in half, causing a huge headache on day 1. So the whole "Fly pays for stainless bolts" is certainly hype in my experience. Also, around the 800 mile mark, my il bello's vacuum-operated fuel pump went bad and I had fuel starvation issues. I installed an electric fuel pump to fix that defect. Other than those things, I think the quality has been good overall. I am happy with it. As a side note, I paid $2,200 inclusive of all fees and taxes for my 2008 il bello from a local dealer. The other ZNEN I had exposure to was my brother's black no-brand ZNEN that he bought from a Flyscooters dealer. The Flyscooters dealer who sells these no-brand ZNENs told us repeatedly that his no-brand ZNENs were the same exact scooter as his higher priced Flyscooter models. Of course he was trying to sell the ZNENs, but after my brother bought this il bello style ZNEN, I noticed everything about it was the same as my Flyscooter il bello. Every bolt, the organization under the hood, the fuel pump, the carb, well just everything was the same as my il bello. And to be honest, his ZNEN rides more firmly and the engine is smoother across the throttle range. My brother has about 500 miles on his new ZNEN and it is still working perfectly for him. Here's a short video of his no-name ZNEN scoot. He paid $1,395 out-the-door for his ZNEN. We even convinced the dealer to swap out the ZNEN seat with a brown leather seat from a Flyscooter I am by no means saying ZNEN is bad quality, just that the Flyscooters ZNEN appears to be no better than no-name ZNEN (my experience actually says the no-name ZNEN is of higher quality compared to my il bello). Yes the Flyscooter has better color options and awesome seats, I think that's worth the increase in price. But my experience does not indicate the Flyscooter ZNEN is any better than the no-name ZNEN. Just my $.02 after 2 ZNEN scoots, not exactly a scientific inquiry.
|
|
|
Post by bigbottom on Jun 5, 2009 15:05:43 GMT -5
"But to insinuate that any scooter that ZNEN produces is all the same quality simply is not true. ZNEN will produce the quality the brand orders."Uh hello, and why do you think we're saying that we think a GSM ordered scoot is a high class item? ? BECAUSE kliff and I have seen the inside of scooters that GSM has sourced, unlike you. So without all the hoopla of 24 hour inspection that Flyscooters is claiming we're saying that a Znen scooter from GSM can be as good as a marked up one. Do I have to go through what's inside my Bashan again or will you just go back to my former post? Or did you just ignore it since it doesn't agree with you? Yes, I read your post. Specifically the part where you said "Do I know what kind of bearings, rings and seals are in the engine? No."Not every Chinese built GY6 engine is built the same. That's been proven ad infinitum on this forum. A Chinese scooter brand can build a GY6 engine for their scooters for $300 a peice, or they can build a GY6 engine for their scooters for $600 a peice. Just because an importer order upgraded carbs and other parts doesn't mean they upgraded every part in the scooter. A good indicator of how much the brand spent on the engine is the price for which the scooter sells. The engine is the most expensive part.
|
|
|
Post by phaze on Jun 5, 2009 16:44:13 GMT -5
my wifes rocketa is a znen, it's the workhorse of the family, all ive done is maintenance. she drives it every day. starts right up no problems at all.
usf, he looks just like ya lol, how are you stationed near him or is he stationed with you lol
|
|
|
Post by kz1000st on Jun 5, 2009 17:37:38 GMT -5
"A Chinese scooter brand can build a GY6 engine for their scooters for $300 a peice, or they can build a GY6 engine for their scooters for $600 a peice."
I've heard that ridiculous statement before and I'd like to know who started that rumor. Unless the crankcases are made of aircraft grade aluminum I don't believe it. In the real world the difference between Chinese bearing sets bought in bulk and Japanese are probably ten bucks, there aren't enough moving pieces in a GY6 to make up the $300 difference. Actually I do know where you got that number, the same place you got the five levels of quality in the Znen factory-I read too. It might be nice if you came up with something original once in awhile. I've said it before and I'll say it again. No one knows who makes a better scooter because nothing has been around long enough. BMW makes the best bike because they have the rep after years of long distance owners. Harleys cost the same but I wouldn't ride one to the corner. If I keep changing my oil and adjusting my valves I could keep my scoot forever. Let's see whose China scooters are ne plus ultra in three or four years. Heck, let's see what's what by the end of this summer. I'm putting my money on the people who are members and lurkers who buy Eagles. Afterall, they won't order now and have to wait until September to get their scooters, unlike another company I could mention.
|
|
008
New Puppy Dawg
Posts: 1
|
Post by 008 on Jun 5, 2009 18:35:28 GMT -5
Been lurking a while, just signed on today, and I'm still followig severral discussions, and mainly dealer threads. But I'm really having trouble here, with this thread.
Bigbottom, you apparently bought a Roketa 250, I see no where that you have any other scooter experience. Why are you stuck in the middle of an argument about 150 scooters? Any educated prospective buyer reading this thread, and previous threads, looking at what you own, can only come to one conclusion, you are a trouble maker.
These guys seem to be passionate and heated about their 150's and manufacturers, but I just don't see any reason for you to be in this discussion, unless you just like to confuse the issue. I'd rather see dishe, kz1000st, kliff, usfmarine, et al, duke it out, with on topic info, than read one word of your input, where you really have none.
Won't you please excuse yourself to the 250 forum, and let the 150 guys hash this out, so newbs like myself can get the facts? Please.
|
|
|
Post by kz1000st on Jun 5, 2009 18:43:59 GMT -5
Now give that man a bone!
|
|
|
Post by bigbottom on Jun 5, 2009 20:16:02 GMT -5
Been lurking a while, just signed on today, and I'm still followig severral discussions, and mainly dealer threads. But I'm really having trouble here, with this thread. Bigbottom, you apparently bought a Roketa 250, I see no where that you have any other scooter experience. Why are you stuck in the middle of an argument about 150 scooters? Any educated prospective buyer reading this thread, and previous threads, looking at what you own, can only come to one conclusion, you are a trouble maker. These guys seem to be passionate and heated about their 150's and manufacturers, but I just don't see any reason for you to be in this discussion, unless you just like to confuse the issue. I'd rather see dishe, kz1000st, kliff, usfmarine, et al, duke it out, with on topic info, than read one word of your input, where you really have none. Won't you please excuse yourself to the 250 forum, and let the 150 guys hash this out, so newbs like myself can get the facts? Please. Hi kliff. Good to see you know how to make an alias account. Ride safe dude!
|
|
|
Post by usfmarine on Jun 5, 2009 21:17:07 GMT -5
usf, he looks just like ya lol, how are you stationed near him or is he stationed with you lol Total luck I got stationed so close to my brother. I'm at Camp Pendleton and he's been a Ph.D. student at UC Irvine for the last few years. Its nice being only 40 mins away from him. I'm sure this is the last time we'll live within driving distance of eachother. And about the issue at hand, I would definitely buy a scoot made in a ZNEN factory over other mainland China scooters. I like ZNEN, but I have yet to see any proof that a Flyscooters ZNEN is better made than a ________ ZNEN.
|
|
|
Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 5, 2009 23:43:36 GMT -5
I'll jump in here really quick as an insider with a bit more information than the layman...
Yes, Znen has several different builds. I know nothing about Eagle whatsoever, but I have seen several other builds from Znen in our shop and they are in fact different. Some of the things most people will never see are the most important, like the Japan NSK bearings, upgraded brake pads, 21 ball bearings in the outer clutch (instead of the standard 6), high grade steel in the crankshaft and axles, enlarged fan impellers, Phillips light bulbs, NJK seals, ATG piston rings, high viscosity shocks, 12 pole stators and more.
I remember a recall not long ago where we had to check all the axles on the Il Bellos, because the inspector found one with the standard (low grade steel) in it. So they do in fact check the scooters for the upgrades.
Before I became a dealer for Fly, I did negotiate with the Znen factory when I was going to bring in my own brand. The price for the standard build was less than 1/2 of the premium. By the time I added all of the external amenities (extra chrome) and Dupont paint, it wasn't worth importing myself.
We have sold a few truck loads of Flys since last year and I think any one of our owners will tell you they are glad they bought a Fly and glad they bought from us. You can count the number of warranty claims on one hand in all of this time, and that speaks volumes!
We recently did our 10th oil change and service on a La Vie at over 10,000 miles, and she has never had a breakdown or warranty service. She uses it as a daily commuter and comes in about once a month for oil changes.
Ask Buddymom on this board what she thought about the Cadenza I loaned her for a local ride when she was in town. She owns the same scooter from another company, but she said to me personally, the difference is like comparing a Cadillac to a Chevrolet...
Believe what you want, but we PDI these things every day, and we also service all of the other brands as well. Fly is a cut above the rest, there is no doubt about it. If it wasn't, I would buy a cheaper brand and sell more of them for a lot less.
-Rich
|
|
|
Post by usfmarine on Jun 6, 2009 0:59:35 GMT -5
I'm surprised Flyscooters would allow their dealers to sell no-name ZNEN models. Having a Flyscooter at a higher price point would be a tough sell next to one of the much cheaper ZNENs. Especially when the Flyscooter dealer tells me that the ZNENs are in every way the same.
|
|
|
Post by bigbottom on Jun 6, 2009 9:33:43 GMT -5
Hi kliff. Good to see you know how to make an alias account. Ride safe dude! Alias account...nope, sorry dude. Post made from my computer....yup. Account set up from my computer,...yup Even my email account used to set it all up.....yup Me....nope. A neighbor, that does not own a 'puter, or have access other than my shop 'puter or his work 'puter, asked if he could join in on my 'puter. Mainly because doing so at his job, would be a "firing offense," even getting caught surfing at his work, is a firing offense. Since I know this guy real well, know he's saving for a scoot, rather than tel him no, go buy your own 'puter, I tell him to save his money and log on here. If you don't like this answer, then I guess you'll be smart enough to know where to shove it. kliff, I don't just like that answer... I LOVE that answer. It makes me feel like I'm back in high school and watching one of my classmates convince the teacher that the dog ate their homework. Ah, good times! Thanks for reminding me of them. And I rest my case. Ride safe kliff.
|
|
|
Post by bigbottom on Jun 6, 2009 10:28:20 GMT -5
kliff, I don't just like that answer... I LOVE that answer. It makes me feel like I'm back in high school and watching one of my classmates convince the teacher that the dog ate their homework. Ah, good times! Thanks for reminding me of them. And I rest my case. Ride safe kliff. Whatever floats your boat. Cause your acceptance, beleif, or even criticisms of me, mean about to me as much as the dog pooh, I step over when outside...in other words, absolutely nothing. In school there may have been a reason, for some tall tails, to cover something up, here....why would I even need to try? I laid it all out on the table, beleive it or not. I'm just trying to figure out how this shill routine you've got going with FLY is gonna shake down.... that is if I'm correct, you know what they say about assumptions. New web clients maybe? Or they're getting ready to intrduce a 250, and you're laying the brick work for why to avoid cheaper brands... Before you were patient as Jobe with ATVD, now I'm seeing a little angst against them, very subtle, but it's there. Oh you're good, you're giving a good performance, sure gonna be interesting to see how this shakes down, over the next 6 mos, to a year.... certainly looks like a long term plan of attack, nothing quick and obvious....very subtle..... But i I'm wrong, then let me apologize now, to you and FLY, cause I've been wrong in the past, and can only go with gut feeling. Ride safe. Wow, you've got me pegged. You've seen right through my ruse. I'm caught, red handed. I'm a shill for fly even though flys were too expensive so I bought a Roketa. I'm a shill for ATVD even though they took 51 days, and when I opened a ticket for my coolant leak they asked me to show proof of the certified mechanic who PDI'd my scooter even though I paid ATVD to do the "ready to ride" program (ATVD PDI'd it). I'm a shill for Roketa even though my Roketa was assembled without the O-ring in the water pipe connected to my cylinder. And on top of that I want to rid the world of 150cc scooters to make room for more 250ccs. And to accomplish all this was entirely dependent on discounting the claim that Eagles are the same quality as a Flyscooter. I really should have disguised my ruse better. I was just being way too transparent. Okay, now I've got to come clean and admit that an Eagle is in fact the exact same quality as a Flyscooter because they are built by ZNEN. In fact ZNEN is crazy for even allowing importers to re-brand their scooters considering every ZNEN is built EXACTLY the same. And Flyscooters is crazy as well for charging twice as much for the exact same scooter that Eagle sells. And me, well I was crazy for listening to one of the most well respected posters on the forum. Since he's recently become a local dealer, his agenda is now to convince the entire internet community to come to Lousiana and buy a Flyscooter from him. And his selection of selling Flyscooters was obviously made out of duress. He could have done exacly what Eagle did and just ordered ZNENs, which are all EXACTLY the same, rebadged them with the "BIG GUY" brand name and sold them for half as much as Flyscooters. What an idiot he was for missing that opportunity. Now he's stuck selling the same quality for twice as much and trying to convice an entire internet community that Flys are better when they really aren't. Kind of a sad story really. I think I'll throw him a bone because it's so sad. That must be why he has all those bones. This whole place just feels so sorry for him [sniff.... sniff] (whipes a tear). So that being said my ruse of convincing everyone to buy/not buy from ATVD has been foiled. My ruse of convincing everyone buy/not buy a Roketa has been foiled. My ruse of convincing everyone to buy/not buy a fly has been foiled. My ruse of convincing everyone to buy/not buy a 150/250 has been foiled. Since Eagles and Flys are the exact same quility, I've got nothing. The world is a cold dark place now. I think I'll go for a ride. Maybe that will chear me up. [sniff]
|
|
|
Post by kz1000st on Jun 6, 2009 13:29:52 GMT -5
OK,Brilliant exchange but let's try and stay on topic shall we? In all respect Big Guy, I've heard this argument about how superior hardware is worth so much in the long run. BMW owners and their aircraft metal told me how my Kawasaki shafty wouldn't last either before it went 125,000 miles on all its original bits.
Does anybody remember this little tidbit from another thread?
"I usually put about 600 miles on my scooter a week. I have 19,800 on my Lance Milan."
Not too bad for a scooter that wasn't made in the fifth level of excellence. Yes it is a Znen, now Lance is Jonway, but a Milan cost a good bit less than the La Vie to which it's comparable. I PMed Dorian and I hope he answers. It would be nice to know how much further he's gone on his "cheap" scooter.
As I said before:
"I've said it before and I'll say it again. No one knows who makes a better scooter because nothing has been around long enough. BMW makes the best bike because they have the rep after years of long distance owners. Harleys cost the same but I wouldn't ride one to the corner. If I keep changing my oil and adjusting my valves I could keep my scoot forever."
So all this Flyscooter this, and TNG that, is pure conjecture. There is no Scooter World magazine, There are no 50,000 mile China scoots and Flyscooter, TNG, Redstreak or anybody else like that hasn't been around since 1948 to flash around their reputation. Not that I think a certain Italian brand is better than the Japanese, but that's a whole other cauldron.
No this will all shake out in the wash in the coming years and some people will probably be surprised who the strong horses really are. At not much money either.
|
|
|
Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 6, 2009 23:20:11 GMT -5
...There are no 50,000 mile China scoots... Actually, that's not true at all. I have over a dozen scooter in storage, sort of a collection, from a Cushman Silver Eagle to Chinese. My SunL 150 has 40K + hard miles on it, My Chao-IChen (no longer in existence, taken over by Jonway in 95?), has somewhere around 40K on it (speedo cable broke at 33K) and my 06 Fly Il Bello had 37K + on it when I sold it last month. Yeah, I know, none at 50K, but there was a discussion here last year about highest mileage and I believe the winner was 72K. On the China scoot site, it was 96K. All of these topics can become a bit like apples to oranges if you ask me... The life, dependability and mileage of any motor vehicle is solely dependent on the operator and the way they care for it. We have virtually zero warranty claims on our bikes... because they are Flys? No, more likely because we do a proper PDI, and stress the fact that we must see the customer back in the shop every 1K miles for service. Prior to becoming a dealer, I used to tell folks here, "It makes no difference what scooter you buy if you're committed to doing a proper PDI and regular service", and I stand by that. However, most are not! So they need to buy from someone knowledgeable, committed to the customer and able to guide them on how to own and use a thumper. Buying a premium built scooter like Fly, TN'G or Redstreak is a step in the right direction for folks who want to ride problem free. Finding a dealer who will finish the assembly with the proper PDI and service them after the sale guarantees the customer peace of mind. Hence the reason that none of these companies will drop ship you a scooter and also why they DO have good reputations. I'm willing to bet that if Goldenvale developed a dealer network and stopped drop shipping to people who want to just uncrate it and ride, they too would have a good reputation. I hope this makes sense to both sides of this argument... -Rich
|
|
|
Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 6, 2009 23:32:47 GMT -5
That's as useful as asking a car a salesman about his competition. Um... no, not really! That was simply the truth! What about that post would you disagree with? I had a customer on Friday that fell in love with the La Vie... She would have bought it on the spot. She said she had been shopping for over a month and it was between the Genuine Stella and the La Vie and then she asked the dreaded question, "Which would you take if I were to offer you one of the two for free?" Of course I answered, the Stella but didn't loose the sale. She bought the honesty of the salesman and the dealership, not the bike. I am not a used car salesman and really do take offense to that statement. Ask the folks here about me that know me personally and they'll all tell you that I tell the truth, might possibly know what I'm talking about, and really only come here to occasionally offer ideas to people who need help as a hobby. Yes, I have a banner on the bottom of my posts, but I have only made one sale from it that I would have made anyway, and I do donate money to Lee regularly to support the board. How about we talk about scooters and leave personalities out of the messages? -Rich
|
|