|
Post by bravobravo on Aug 26, 2008 18:21:40 GMT -5
I would be happy to get 10,000 miles out of my scooter! Curious to everyone elses opinion!
|
|
|
Post by mortar235 on Aug 26, 2008 18:57:40 GMT -5
depends on how you service and ride them. I have seen people on this forum get over 10k easily, i think earlwb is at 9k or maybe he's over 10k now..
|
|
|
Post by dorian on Aug 26, 2008 19:03:54 GMT -5
I'm putting in about 300 miles a week, so I'm determined to have mine last at least 30K miles. I think the frame is more of a determining factor than the engine in my case.
|
|
|
Post by rerun2 on Aug 26, 2008 19:21:41 GMT -5
Hard to say, isn't it! Most of us have not had our China scooters all that long, mine did a little over 3000 MILES before it ran away from home, a 50cc, I think it had really just been fully settled at that mark, guessing I think it would have gone 20,000 the way I rode it.
Now I bought a very used Honda 550 Four many years ago with 75,000 on it, and I had it for another 10,000 before I sold it. Sooooo I think a lot is determined by the original build quality, and more importantly the upkeep that is performed.
|
|
|
Post by cat0020 on Aug 26, 2008 20:26:18 GMT -5
imo, it depends on the usage.. if you're operating your scooter at 90% of its engine capacity most of the time, it is more than likely the engine life would be reduced.
|
|
|
Post by motomech on Aug 26, 2008 20:29:30 GMT -5
Define "a lot".
Last time I checked, every part is available.
With Japanese bikes and scooters what determines their lifespans becomes a matter of parts availability and the cost of the repairs exceeding the value of the machine("nickel and dimming one to death").
Parts for these are cheap, but down the road, what are these Chinascoots going to be worth? That's the only "unknown" here, but with technology accelerating from a march to a run, they may not be worth much.
So, how far down the is "down the road" and how fast are you going to get there?
Lets take Dorian, for example. he says he is doing 300 miles a week and since he lives in Calif., he theoretically could do 15K a year if he was willing to ride in the rain. So what is he going to need to replace in that year? Well, with a little luck(don't want to jinx him here), just tires, a belt and a few misc. items. In the second year(around 20K), his air-cooled engine is going to need a top end rebuild and a CVT rebuild. Again, parts are reasonable and if he does it himself, it's NBD. But now into the second year(25 to 30K), some major stuff could go bad. Crank bearings, or maybe the gears in the final drive could chew themselves up(taking the case with them). Worse scenario, he needs a new engine(cheaper than fixing his), so if they are still around a grand, does he put his money into a scooter that is not worth that much? Probably not, at that point most sane people would think they got their money's worth and retire the puppy. Every now and then we hear about the Honda Helix that "has over 100,000 miles on it(As a testiment to Honda quality, I suppose). Well, that really doen't mean anything because we not told how many top-ends and all sorts of repairs it's had(altough, Honda does build the highest quality two wheelers). But what is siginifient about that statement is, that a few years ago, if you wanted a medium sized scooter, there wasn't anything better than a 20 year old Helix. Is the same going to be true of a Chinascoot in ten years? I think not.
That's one potential case history, and perhaps not even that likely. I, for one, would get tired of riding a sm. scooter 300 miles a week and soon would be looking for something bigger.
I'm afraid, good intentions not withstanding, most here will never accumulate enough miles to "wear their scooter out". Things happen, they get stolen, crashed, or folks just lose interest.
In my experience working as a motorcycle and scooter mechanic over the years, I worked on way more machines that were "pulled out of the woodshed", than '"go though it and replace everything needed" type jobs.
I must say, that this prevlent idea that one reaches some set number of miles and "it's done", is not valid. There is just way too many varibles.
|
|
|
Post by Karl on Aug 26, 2008 20:30:06 GMT -5
I know a guy who got 10k miles on a Vento Triton (2-stroke) and wasn't done yet. He was on a Yahoo forum but that forum has since gone to the dogs.........but not the Dawgs!
Karl
|
|
|
Post by motomech on Aug 26, 2008 20:43:04 GMT -5
The two-stroke Vento guys have a killer forum; www.provoscoot.comFun, fun, fun, reading it makes one want to go out get a little two-smoker.
|
|
|
Post by yarddogbbq on Aug 26, 2008 20:45:37 GMT -5
6560 miles ridden to work, on a cfmoto jonway/roketa bali.
60-65 mph 69-70 occasionally, vacuum fuel valve, new michelin Boppers, cvt belt is tight and housing is clean.
lowtox coolant full strength. valvoline dot 4 brake fluid. from the beginning. valvoline dura blend oil diesel rated. in the gear box also. no leaks anywhere. variator pdi drive pulley clutch drive axel pdi. valve stems double nut type. valve adjust at new, 1000 miles, 6000miles.
most of the miles are around 65-69mph, trying to get out of the way.
ive used synthetic or synthetic blend oil from the begining. feels like it is just now getting broken in.
yarddog
7000 miles this time next week. since april, im putting 1000+ each month. sometimes 1500.
|
|
|
Post by dorian on Aug 26, 2008 20:57:47 GMT -5
That's one potential case history, and perhaps not even that likely. I, for one, would get tired of riding a sm. scooter 300 miles a week and soon would be looking for something bigger. I'm afraid, good intentions not withstanding, most here will never accumulate enough miles to "wear their scooter out". Things happen, they get stolen, crashed, or folks just lose interest. I agree with most of your post but you need to be careful about generalizations based on personal preferences. There is a large group of us in the scootering community that has already done the big bike thing and are downsizing for various reasons. Personally, I find long distance scooting more of a challenge than Iron Butt rides on a Goldwing. In simple terms, the more challenging something is the more of an adventure it becomes, and I consider adventure to be a positive thing. I've run more motorcycles into the ground (wore them out) than most folks have owned. I'm just starting to learn the scooter side of the equation. As you stated, you would be inclined to step up to something bigger if you were scooting 300 miles a week on a consistent basis. I've been motorcycling to the tune of 30K miles a year (average) for a lot of years and I'm ready to ramp down the cc's just because change feels good, and scooters are a rush. Yes indeed, my scooter may get totaled or stolen before I wear it out. If so, it will be the first 2 wheeled vehicle I have owned to suffer a premature departure from my garage. But if not (and if I'm fortunate enough to still be around), I hope to post a definitive answer to this debate in a few short years. But I'll probably be seeking you out well before then for some wrenching advice. Here's my two current rides. I prefer the one on the left, even for long distances. I'm keeping the one on the right for the 2-up journeys and long distance business trips.
|
|
|
Post by bravobravo on Aug 26, 2008 21:11:27 GMT -5
Not trying to single out any particular brand of scooter. I guess I should of said Chinese scooter because thats the majority on this site. But as far as what Ive read 30-40,000 miles on a scooter (in general) seems to be considered a lot of miles. Are you going to replace parts to get there? Of course same as any vehicle car or bike. But Im talking about before you have to overhaul/replace engine... still a running scooter.
|
|
|
Post by motomech on Aug 26, 2008 21:53:47 GMT -5
That's one potential case history, and perhaps not even that likely. I, for one, would get tired of riding a sm. scooter 300 miles a week and soon would be looking for something bigger. I'm afraid, good intentions not withstanding, most here will never accumulate enough miles to "wear their scooter out". Things happen, they get stolen, crashed, or folks just lose interest. I agree with most of your post but you need to be careful about generalizations based on personal preferences. There is a large group of us in the scootering community that has already done the big bike thing and are downsizing for various reasons. Personally, I find long distance scooting more of a challenge than Iron Butt rides on a Goldwing. In simple terms, the more challenging something is the more of an adventure it becomes, and I consider adventure to be a positive thing. I've run more motorcycles into the ground (wore them out) than most folks have owned. I'm just starting to learn the scooter side of the equation. As you stated, you would be inclined to step up to something bigger if you were scooting 300 miles a week on a consistent basis. I've been motorcycling to the tune of 30K miles a year (average) for a lot of years and I'm ready to ramp down the cc's just because change feels good, and scooters are a rush. Yes indeed, my scooter may get totaled or stolen before I wear it out. If so, it will be the first 2 wheeled vehicle I have owned to suffer a premature departure from my garage. But if not (and if I'm fortunate enough to still be around), I hope to post a definitive answer to this debate in a few short years. But I'll probably be seeking you out well before then for some wrenching advice. Here's my two current rides. I prefer the one on the left, even for long distances. I'm keeping the one on the right for the 2-up journeys and long distance business trips. <<<<I agree with most of your post but you need to be careful about generalizations based on personal preferences.>>>> True, but my preferences are tempered with , like you, a long history with two-wheelers. I only used you for an example because you seemed like you may actually accumulate enough miles to where the "fix it or not" dilemma might actually become a reality. Actually, it becomes more likely with scooters in the 300cc range and up, they are going to be the ones to accumulate serious mileage. Being liquid-cooled, their top-ends should last at least till 30K and their cranks could go to 60 to 80K. at that point, what with the motor work all else it would need, it could be a tough call. Japanese, given the higher resale value might get rebuilt, whereas, a Chinese scooter might not. At any rate, the thing I would like to convey about these scooters, is for general riding public here, to enjoy them and not be overly concerned about how long they might last.
|
|
|
Post by motomech on Aug 26, 2008 22:13:31 GMT -5
Not trying to single out any particular brand of scooter. I guess I should of said Chinese scooter because thats the majority on this site. But as far as what Ive read 30-40,000 miles on a scooter (in general) seems to be considered a lot of miles. Are you going to replace parts to get there? Of course same as any vehicle car or bike. But Im talking about before you have to overhaul/replace engine... still a running scooter. Engine wise, I don't place a whole lot of emphasis on Japanese or Chinese. Although the Chinese power plants have considerably more teething problems than the Japanese units, once they are over that, I haven't seen anything that would cause me to believe the Chinese stuff will be any shorter lived than their Japanese counterparts. I think a GY6 would last as long as a Yamaha Riva 125 or a Suzuki AN 125. Likewise I think a CF Moto 244 will as long as long as the Honda Elite/Helix motor. So, if I was hard pressed into throw out some numbers, I would say, that a certain percentage of GY6 scooters for example would have to have their engines replaced in the 40k to 60k range(after one rebuild). What percentage? Hard to say, maybe half. But that's the beauty of these things. That there is available replacement power units that are reasonable. It's enough too make to go out and run the wheels off of it to see if you can there. Replacement engines are not an option on the Japanese machinery, unless one owns an Elite 150/250/Helix and can throw a CF Moto engine into it(Now that's a thought!).
|
|
|
Post by slowscootin07 on Aug 26, 2008 22:18:44 GMT -5
1600 and rising in three months on the FireDrake. A long time ago Bitch, an 84 Aero 50 finally told me I was walking home at about 45K
|
|
|
Post by scootdoggydog on Aug 26, 2008 22:33:51 GMT -5
ive had my scooter for about 5 months and put on almost 8k miles a lot of weekends with about 250 miles driven mostly in the 40-55mph range stop and go with some decent stretches of 50-55 the biggest problem for me was trying to keep it from falling apart the air filter box broke loose and i didnt notice it wasnt attatched to the carb so i think that led to my pilot jet getting clogged causing idling problems so i replaced the pilot jet and mounted my air filter box on better tightening the connection to the carb my muffler straps broke then the exhaust pipe cracked the rivets on my muffler are loose and vibrating i replaced a couple of headlight and tail light bulbs i never had to do a valve adjustment im still using my original cvt belt
preventative maintenance can go a long way if you know what to do i learned a lot from my scooter and its been fun
i didnt want to or have the money to make it bullet proof it so i figured ill fix/replace things as needed
now im trying to figure out whats wrong with it though it bogs down hesitates stalls and dies my guess is a valve problem i will be trying to fix soon
a new engine is about 500+some change from partsforscooters which is about half of the price i paid for my scoot
|
|
|
Post by motomech on Aug 26, 2008 22:35:31 GMT -5
<<<<I've been motorcycling to the tune of 30K miles a year (average) for a lot of years and I'm ready to ramp down the cc's just because change feels good, and scooters are a rush.>>> I hear that, I crave a scooter in the 300 to 400cc range and although there are a million of them here, Costa )Rica is not right for me to ride a scooter. Bad roads, bad drivers and bad vendors, all keep me on my old Airhead BMW. It will last as long as I will be riding(I have two spare running engines) and in a sense, it's like a scooter, it's very minimalist, the seat is low and I can carry a lot. If only it got better mileage One of my favorite all time rides was a '86 Honda Elite CH150D, man I loved that scooter. But I didn't take any road trips on it. The Helix was just a little short winded on the hi-way, so my thinking is that, the 300 to 400cc range is perfect. Any bigger and they get complicated and they start to take on the issues of a bike. I guess motorcycles and scooters will blending together more and more in the near future.
|
|
|
Post by russjac2000 on Aug 26, 2008 22:43:18 GMT -5
I really could care less about the miles, If I get at least 12-18 months out of the bike I'm buying I couldn't care less if it melts into a smoking pile of slag. When you factor in the gas and insurance it's cheaper to own a scoot and the cost/benefit of them is such that you could replace yours every 12 months and still be better off than owning a car.
Scooter Honda Civic
Price 2000 16500 Monthly Payment 200 450 Gas/week ~$7 ~$30 Insurance $95/yr $140/month (comp &collision) Maintenence >$40year ~$250/yr
The values for the Honda are from 7 years ago when I last owned a car, so they would be even more today!! Obviously values would change based on your own personal details but the scooter saves me $4971 a year, so to get back to the point of this thread, I don't care how many miles I get, I consider it a disposable item.
|
|
|
Post by motomech on Aug 26, 2008 22:48:30 GMT -5
1600 and rising in three months on the FireDrake. A long time ago Bitch, an 84 Aero 50 finally told me I was walking home at about 45K A '84 Aero 50 ;D The one with the funky styling and the big trunk(for a scooter)on the side? Was it powder blue or faded red?. They were tough. The little engine was industrially tuned and built. Still, 45K is something. Perhaps you made an effort to good oil in it? In '85, Honda redesigned the Aero 50 and with it's totally new new engine, was way faster. They wouldn't go 45K though. One Honda that would, and more, was the '84 Aero 80, no doubt the most durable scooter ever built. Could not kill them. I had a beater with around 50K on the clock. The plastic was so mangled, I striped it off, mounted some dirt bike tires on it and used it as wife's dirt bike(bad Idea . We took it to her hometown in Mex., where the local kids hot-wired it and rode it night and day for the week we were there. When I left it there, it was still running.
|
|
|
Post by bravobravo on Aug 27, 2008 0:04:04 GMT -5
Yes motomech thats what Im asking lol.
What is a lot of miles?
|
|
|
Post by Bake is Back on Aug 27, 2008 8:47:29 GMT -5
The milage part is important, but the real question is how do you determine if you got a good deal. Just compare it to a car payment. If you have no current payment, then it is much easier to do. My last car payment was $400 for 6 years. Yes, some loss carryover from a previous loan and high interest rate due to bad credit, but that car is still kicking after 155,000 miles. Paid $4500(tax included) for my '03 Burgman 400. So if it last one solid year, then im even with the car. It is due for a full service, so that is an extra months car payment. But none the less, the gas and insurance savings help with the difference until the cost justification is back in my corner. After that,,, it is all gravy.... maybe some biscuits too.... I did see on Suzuki's website that I can order a new engine, but did not bother to look at the price. So at some point, I will have an overhaul done, then maybe a new engine. If they keep cutting the shipments to the US, I would bet I can drive it for another year and sell it for what I paid for it and put that towards a new one.
Whether or not you can really justify a scoot, find a calculation to determine how much fun I have zipping by the big trucks and hearing the cash register go off when they have to fill up with a weeks pay. This is the real question: "HOW GOOD DO YOU FEEL WHEN SOMEONE ASKS YOUR MILAGE, AT THE GAS STATION, WHEN THEY ARE GETTING RAPED TO FILL UP THEIR SUV, THEN TURN THEIR HEAD AND SEE HOW MUCH IT COST THEM TO LOOK GOOD AT 15MPG?" Just like VISA, it's priceless. "HOW GOOD DOES IT FEEL TO GET OUT EARLY IN THE MORNINGS AND GO GET A NEWSPAPER. "HOW GOOD DOES IT FEEL WHEN PEOPLES FACES SAY THEY WISH THEY HAD THE GUTS YOU HAVE TO GET ONE AND HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT. Your the leader and innovator, not the passive viewer always wishing they had done something sooner.
|
|
|
Post by scooterollie on Aug 27, 2008 9:40:05 GMT -5
I'm not so sure these scoots will end up being throwaways. We may not want to put any more time and $ into them and may not get much for them sold "As Is" but some enterprising person short on $ but long on ingenuity will take them off our hands for a few dollars, drop in a cheap new or used power train and put them back on the road. It's the American way! All you have to do is read posts on this forum to see that there is some of that enterprising spirit still alive in the U.S.
Bake, you have it right about the joy of riding. Priceless! If I can't get on the scoot for a few days I fell like something is missing in my life. I have always enjoyed driving but now I can ride the back roads just for enjoyment w/o spending a lot to do it!
A younger friend has a very nice Yamaha Vino 125 but does not know anything about vehicles. I am helping him learn how to service his machine and save bundles doing so. He loves to ride and has put 2K miles on it in a yr., using it to reduce his gas expenses. Now he can save even more by doing the service himself.
|
|
|
Post by Bake is Back on Aug 27, 2008 10:36:34 GMT -5
That is my next goal. Scooter Mechanic Extraordinare...... I figure if I can do a decent job, there will be plenty of work available. Not that all the scoots are cheap, but that people are too busy to do their own work. I just sold my Vino 125. Miss it like crazy, but I use mine for business too and need to use the highway. But I got my own CD for it on Ebay - $10 cuz the oil change alone was almost $50. That was my boiling point. They talked about how easy it would be to change it, but charge twice of that for a car..... I think the new mechanic board will really be helpful to all of us wanna-be mechanics. For all the naysayers, this site is sooo helpful for all scooter dooters like myself. There are some super duper mechanics and they should have their own garage. Just glad they don't charge me for free-loading on their hints, cuz they are some good hints if anyone pays attention.
|
|
|
Post by cheap0 on Aug 27, 2008 11:18:55 GMT -5
The poll question lacks real meaning, because the definition of "scooter" varies widely. A 50cc with 10k miles is high miles. I've seen a Burgman 650 with 11k called "low miles". And it is. If I was to answer for my own maxi scooter, I'd say that 40k miles is a lot. I've seen one with 45k, and it shows. That said, the 45k Burgman 400 I saw is still going strong, and will probably be on the road for years and tens of thousands of miles to come.
|
|
|
Post by bravobravo on Aug 27, 2008 16:36:53 GMT -5
150,000 to 200,00 is a lot for a car... I think. That seems to be peoples (general) opinion. Have I owned cars that have gotten more... Yes, But I think your over complacating it. Thats like saying well this brand of car generally puts on 100,00 miles before its done or this particular brand of car generally puts on 300,000 mile before its done. But I was meaning in general for scooters or average if you will. But I guess Ill just drive my scooter as long as possible and compare at that point. I know scooters have been around a while, figured over the years there would be a mark thats considered a lot, wish they had a used scooter sales lot, because I know when people shop for a used car they try to stay under 100,000 miles if they plan on driving it for a while. Or maybe there is no answer to my question?!?!? Yeah Im going to take it as theres no answer and just see how many I can put on the little booger before it grenades lol.
Take it easy.
|
|
|
Post by motomech on Aug 28, 2008 8:56:34 GMT -5
I just ran across a place selling GY6 125cc new engines for $299(link in "125 and up").
At that kind of price, one could just keep putting new engines in their scooters and they would last forever.
|
|
|
Post by jayhawk on Aug 28, 2008 16:05:40 GMT -5
Speaking of Honda Aeros - I had a 1986, and it would hit about 40 mph and I sold it in 2002. It needed new body panels and a new front drum brake...but it was one heck of a scoot. I honestly don't recall the milage, but I drove the heck out of it for 10 years.
Eric
|
|
|
Post by tastroman on Aug 28, 2008 16:24:04 GMT -5
I had an 87 Honda Elite 250 that I parted with at 46K that was running fine but needed new rings. I sold it and bought a Daelim S-2 250 with the hope of getting about 20k out of the S-2 before major problems. The problem is, with most non Jap scoots, they just have not been on the road long enough to gauge how long they will go before developing problems. It will be interesting 10 years from now to see which brands prove reliable.
|
|
|
Post by chaz12 on Oct 7, 2010 0:52:02 GMT -5
Well, I will be happy with 25,000 miles. But you have to remember, that these are very cheap Chinese scooters. Not talking a Jap, American, France, ect built. Chinese. It would be nice if someone got 40,000 miles out of a Chinese scooter, but I seriously doubt it big time. And if it goes bad, well remember, can always get another cheap scooter for a dime per dozen.
|
|
|
Post by erictheviking666 on Oct 7, 2010 1:14:37 GMT -5
I have 10,600 miles on my 50cc and the rings just went out. I no longer have enough compression to start it. I have only ever used Castrol Syntec in it after using regular oil the first 1,000 miles. I change the oil every thousands kms religiously. It runs at WOT 95% of time with no problems. I'm putting in a 72cc BBK & new head this weekend so hopefully it should be like a new engine. As long as the crank bearings hold up I should be able to get another 8,000 to 10,000 miles out of it. But I really believe that something like this that cost me less than $600 bucks new, is designed to be ridden a few years and replaced.
|
|
|
Post by Bluefront on Oct 7, 2010 6:32:47 GMT -5
The end for most scooters......it comes when the battery goes dead, the fuel system gets clogged up from sitting around over the winter, the scooter becomes increasingly difficult to start and keep running, and the owner simply loses interest in the entire scooter thing. Then the scoot is parked somewhere to slowly rot away......or be sold off in a non-running condition. So the life of a scooter usually cannot be estimated in total mileage.....but rather in time of ownership. This holds true for any scooter, regardless of brand or cost. Sad but true for most of our little toys......
|
|