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Post by karen on May 11, 2007 20:05:01 GMT -5
Today 2 different cars turned to cross the road in front of me. They had to hurry and I had to slow down so we didn't get too close for comfort.
I think drivers have trouble figuring how fast scooters are going. Scooters and motorcycles are smaller, maybe shinier. It could be, too, that drivers see a unique vehicle and they get distracted from their original intent to turn left - target fixation of a different sort! Or a little brag "I'm driving this high powered SUV and can make any fast turn quicker than that little scooter comes down the road."
So, it's not always a matter of drivers not seeing us, but also misjudging and underestimating two-wheeeled vehicles.
That was my revelation of the day. What was yours?
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Post by Dennis D on May 11, 2007 23:47:17 GMT -5
Anyone who you're unsure of who may pull out or turn in front of you..... flash your lights when approaching them. not just once... they could blink or be looking the other way, but several times at least. Makes em think twice about pulling out in front of you. If you're obviously warning against pulling out, then maybe they shouldn't.... works every time. But I hadge my bets! I am always at least off the gas when approaching "iffy" situations and have my fingers poised on the brake levers, if not actually braking.
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Post by johnml on May 12, 2007 10:18:14 GMT -5
People dont realize that scooters go as fast as motorcycles. I tell people that scooters are basicly automatic motorcycles. their confusing scoots with mopeds (which you really dont see anymore) My two cents worth...
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Post by termite on May 12, 2007 21:08:20 GMT -5
American drivers aren't as familiar with scooters as European and Asian drivers. But they do the same thing to motorcycles. I ride a Kawasaki ZR-7S, and teenage girls(especially with cell phones stuck in their ear!  ) and elderly drivers are who worry me the most. The teenage girls because they don't pay attention to their surroundings, and the elderly because they often simply don't see the smaller motorcycles/scooters. Even when they do, there's that eye/brain recognition thing. The elderly often have trouble judging closing speeds, which is why they sometimes pull out in front of other vehicles, even when they see them. So be careful, Karen. You don't want to end up as a hood ornament, or road pizza. |
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Post by demon on May 12, 2007 21:32:43 GMT -5
This is why i am seriously looking into HID lights... the HID Brights on my car are friggin blinding, when i flash them even the tree's light up..lol..
People misjudge a scoots verlocity b/c its a small object, but 50MPH is 50MPH no matter what the object is...
just like Dennis, if i am unsure of an impeding situation i am already off the throttle and got at least my left hand over the brake handle if not both brakes..
PS i just bought my helmet today, just in time too.. those FL lovebugs are everywhere, i had a dozon plastered to my shirt after my drive home
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Post by jspencer on May 13, 2007 21:40:06 GMT -5
Karen --
You make a good point. Drivers are used to judging distance by the apparent size of the vehicle and judging speed by how fast that apparent size is changing. A motor scooter (or motorcycle for that matter) is an unfamiliar size. And even if they are familiar with motorcycles, most scooters are smaller than motorcycles so you on your scooter may seem farther away than you really are.
Yes, I know there is such a thing as depth perception, but for most people depth perception works poorly beyond about 55 feet and they fall back on other distance judgments like apparent size relative to a "known" size.
This is probably why drivers often say they never saw the scooter after an accident -- to their subconscious, the scooter appeared far enough away that their brain classified it as "not a factor" and so they never "saw" it.
Flashing your lights or blowing your horn may make the other person take a second look, but there's no guarantee the second look will produce more accurate information than the first.
It's safest to assume that the other driver "sees" you further away than you are or may not even "see" you at all. Slow down, assume they will do something illogical and dangerous, and be ready to give way.
Jon
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Post by termite on May 13, 2007 22:24:34 GMT -5
PS i just bought my helmet today, just in time too.. those FL lovebugs are everywhere, i had a dozon plastered to my shirt after my drive home The lovebugs are bad here in Louisiana, too. And my car is white..........  |
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Post by demon on May 15, 2007 21:50:42 GMT -5
I was riding down a road yesterday and a car looked like it was about to pull out into my lane. as i watched i noticed the wheels started to roll, i flashed my brights and the car stopped and i passed by no problem... COOL!! 1/2 mile down the road, a car in on comming traffic wanted to make a left across my path of travel.... the dipsh!t stopped waited as i approached and then decided they were going to make the left.. i flashed my brights and they just went on with their turn like i was not even there... So, moral of the story is your brights dont always work, so dont rely on them  |
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Post by demon on May 25, 2007 21:51:50 GMT -5
Now that i am back on 2 wheels again i have noticed that i pay more attention to other 2 wheelers when in a cage.... Just the other day, i was about to make a right onto a raod when i noticed a bike approaching. I thought he had distance and was about to proceeed when i decided to take a second look..
I studied him for a split second more and realized that i had grossly misjudged his approach. I waited for him to pass and then proceeded, as i caught up behind him he was doing the speed limit! Did he slow down to the limit when he saw me about to enter the intersection??
Dunno, but i had followed him on route and noticed that he obeyed all rules of the road and used hand as well as foot signals when changing lanes along with blinkers.. My final deduction was that he probably was not speeding when he approached me but i could not effectivly judge his speed..
Its like some annomaly with bikes... one can easily judge an approaching car but a bike.. you need a little more time on the object to determine its verlocity and course..
Honestly, if i had not ridden bikes in the past or present i probably would not have double check him coming and went with my first guess of "I have enough time". So yeah i definitly agree that "Drivers don't know how fast scoots(or bikes) are"
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Post by swampsniper on May 26, 2007 0:11:35 GMT -5
Coming home yesterday I was behind a young lady in a car, and the light turned red. She stopped, but then proceeded to pound the steering wheel and do all kinds of cussing. She wasn't heading toward the hospital, so I don't reckon she had a baby coming. Thing is, some folks see anything in their path as a personal affront, they are just simply crazy as hell.
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Post by Jacine on May 28, 2007 11:46:07 GMT -5
Always assume that the car will pull out or turn in front of you. Expect the unexpected. I use a headlight modulator flasher. It seems to get their attention.
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2007 17:57:40 GMT -5
Jacine, I'm sure you don't have any trouble getting attention. ;D
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Post by Dennis D on May 29, 2007 18:06:59 GMT -5
Jacine, I'm sure you don't have any trouble getting attention. ;D I doubt any of us would recognize Jacine in body armor and a full face helmet, so I think the headlight modulator is a good idea. I blink my headlights a LOT going into situations where I'm not sure I'm being seen by someone who could pull out in front of me. |
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Post by demon on May 30, 2007 10:48:50 GMT -5
Jacine, I'm sure you don't have any trouble getting attention. ;D A shapely figure w/ long blond hair flowing out the back of a helmet will certainly get my attention  Props for Jacine.... You go girl!! |
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Post by Andi on Jul 14, 2007 16:32:59 GMT -5
Always assume that the car will pull out or turn in front of you. Expect the unexpected. I use a headlight modulator flasher. It seems to get their attention. What exactly is headlight modulator flasher? Andi |
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Post by scooterlizard on Jul 14, 2007 18:18:53 GMT -5
It makes your light look like it has a loose connection, it flickers on and off real fast and does get driver's attention(most of the time). There are some companies that make mini strobes that fit in the head light or on the headlight where it doesn't bother the rider. Ya just have to look around to see who sells them.
Scooterlizard
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Post by WarrenS on Jul 14, 2007 19:34:00 GMT -5
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Post by stewntexas on Jul 14, 2007 19:57:36 GMT -5
I agree that modulators increase your visibility to anyone that is paying any attention at all. Unfortunately, that is not everyone.
I use a modulator, flashing LED's tied to the brake lights, and sometimes think waving a flag might help.
Ride as if every cage out there is out to get you. Be aware, look ahead, anticipate, just don't be afraid.
I have taken a couple of motorcycle safety courses, one taught by city cycle policemen, one by state. One thing they both say is to ride with 'A High Profile'. Be aggressive in keeping out of anyones blind spot. If you are in the outside lane, a car in the inside lane seems to be slowing, speed up as quickly as your scoot can to get up at least to their front door. I have learned by experience that you will not get cited for this aggressive riding unless you over do it and place someone in danger. They usually give bikes/scooters a little more leeway on speed due our exposure. If you get stopped, explain respectively what and why you were riding the way you were. If your reason makes sense, and you don't act like an A Hole, you should be OK.
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Post by surfborg on Jul 17, 2007 12:28:20 GMT -5
Jacine, I'm sure you don't have any trouble getting attention. ;D A shapely figure w/ long blond hair flowing out the back of a helmet will certainly get my attention Props for Jacine.... You go girl!! I have this image of Jacine looking like that lady on those Esurance comercials. Quote, Buy, Print! Surf |
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Post by Dennis D on Jul 20, 2007 7:11:56 GMT -5
I use a modulator, flashing LED's tied to the brake lights, and sometimes think waving a flag might help. I have taken a couple of motorcycle safety courses, one taught by city cycle policemen, one by state. One thing they both say is to ride with 'A High Profile'. I've got a headlight modulator on the way. But riding with a high profile might be a bit difficult on a Helix!  How about one of those reflective triangles the farmers have on their equipment and amish around here have on their buggies? Alter it to say "Low Moving Vehicle" ;D. Oh well, probably not a good idea.... people would see it as "slow", instead of "low", because they see what they expect to see. Then I'd have a steady stream of traffic trying to pass me.  |
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Post by WarrenS on Jul 20, 2007 8:32:00 GMT -5
The Helix may be low but it is large. I even dice on the freeway with the trucks on my Morphous. I think it stands out because it is different.
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Post by AZscooter on Jul 22, 2007 18:15:42 GMT -5
I just put on a headlight modulator, and an air horn. But even with all this I expect that people will pull out in front of me. Being aware and willing to give way is still the best safty equipment.
Mike
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Post by gusset on Jul 24, 2007 17:26:35 GMT -5
I was reading back to the beginning of this thread, and something occurred to me.
Flashing high-beams is often supposed to be a courtesy, with the meaning that you are telling the other driver that they can safely proceed.
The most common example I see is at night on the freeway, when an 18-wheeler moves into the left lane to pass a another vehicle. The driver of the vehicle being passed will flash their brights to signal the passing big-rig that they are clear to move back into the right lane (since the driver of the 18-wheeler may not be able to tell if they have fully passed the other vehicle). Has anyone else here heard of this?
I think that it's possible that flashing high beams at another vehicle may be interpreted as "Go!", rather than the intended, "Hey, look! I'm here!"
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Post by scooterlizard on Jul 24, 2007 18:10:26 GMT -5
I was reading back to the beginning of this thread, and something occurred to me. Flashing high-beams is often supposed to be a courtesy, with the meaning that you are telling the other driver that they can safely proceed. The most common example I see is at night on the freeway, when an 18-wheeler moves into the left lane to pass a another vehicle. The driver of the vehicle being passed will flash their brights to signal the passing big-rig that they are clear to move back into the right lane (since the driver of the 18-wheeler may not be able to tell if they have fully passed the other vehicle). Has anyone else here heard of this? I think that it's possible that flashing high beams at another vehicle may be interpreted as "Go!", rather than the intended, "Hey, look! I'm here!" Gusset, I drive the big trucks and that is common practice among truckers. It's to let them know that they can tuck back into that lane safely. it's also done during the day. as for the scoot, that is to let some dumb cager know that you are there and even then they don't pay attention to that either. You just have drive for yourself and for the rest dumb @#%& as well. |
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Post by Dennis D on Jul 27, 2007 9:06:37 GMT -5
The way a headlight modulator works, I'm sure that wouldn't be interpreted as a "go " signal. I have heard of people pulling off the road to let motorcyclists with a headlight modulator go by, mistaking them for an emergency vehicle(emergency scooter??).
Flashing headlights manually while approaching a dicey situation, I have not yet had people take it as a "go" signal that I'm aware of, but have had creeping/rolling vehicles suddenly brake when they notice me. Also a couple that were about half out in front of me anyway, suddenly hit the gas and get out of the way quickly.
Either way, not a problem.... flashing the headlight is always an action undertaken simultaneously with slowing or even braking for me, as I prepare for the worst. Problem is I don't always do it when I probably should. I have a headlight modulator that will be installed this weekend on my high beam for during the day use. That will help remedy those times I forget. I still plan to ride as though no one sees. There are people driving while texting, who just plain aren't looking!!
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Post by earlwb on Jul 28, 2007 22:14:20 GMT -5
Personally in my experiences, nothing has really changed since 1966 when I first started riding motorcycles regularly. Drivers still have problems with motorcycles and scooters and bicycles. Although nowdays we have more drivers and a larger population, so more accidents are inevitable.
it has been the same thing for years and years.
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Post by "Big Guy" on Oct 22, 2007 0:26:24 GMT -5
I have to disagree with the flashing lights. Flashing your lights in most cases give permission for the other car to do... whatever. Flash em at a truck and it means it's okay to turn, pass, whatever.
I have been riding for over 40 years without incident, and I credit this to anticipating what the other vehicle MIGHT do. Be ready for anything and always have a plan around it and you'll ride safely.
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Post by AZscooter on Nov 12, 2007 8:51:55 GMT -5
I agree with jacine. I added a head light modulator about a month ago. Cagers now seem to be much more aware of me especially at intersections. The modulator is just a tool. It does not take the place of an alert scooter driver.
Mike
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Post by swampsniper on Nov 12, 2007 14:14:22 GMT -5
Many people don't actually see much of anything, as far as details go. They are the ones who step on rattlesnakes ;D
How many times have you been riding with friends, and someone points out a deer, or something, that no one else even noticed, in plain view? Their minds are preset to see only big things, and a scooter just doesn't register.
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Post by termite on Nov 12, 2007 15:05:22 GMT -5
Many people don't actually see much of anything, as far as details go. They are the ones who step on rattlesnakes ;D That's just Mother Nature thinning the herd thru natural selection.  |
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) and elderly drivers are who worry me the most. The teenage girls because they don't pay attention to their surroundings, and the elderly because they often simply don't see the smaller motorcycles/scooters. Even when they do, there's that eye/brain recognition thing. The elderly often have trouble judging closing speeds, which is why they sometimes pull out in front of other vehicles, even when they see them. 
How about one of those reflective triangles the farmers have on their equipment and amish around here have on their buggies? Alter it to say "Low Moving Vehicle" ;D.
