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Post by jackryan on Nov 25, 2006 2:58:48 GMT -5
Hi All,
I have been reading this forum for a while and have found it very informative. My wife currently has a Twist and Go Milano 150 but I seem to ride it more then she does. So I need to get my own scooter before it becomes an issue. I have been all over the map as for my decision process, but I have been looking seriously at the Bandit Motorsports UC-250z. I was wondering if anybody has any experience with either Bandit or more specifically the UC-250z. It seems that Bandit has a good reputation, but I am wondering about this bike and its potential problems or advantages. Any thoughts would be great.
Thanks,
Sean
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Post by Aaron on Nov 25, 2006 11:01:23 GMT -5
Sean I like the body style of that scoot.. as a Bandit it is most likely powered by a CF-Moto drivetrain which would be a good thing... Anyone know for sure? Go to Yahoo groups and see Jacine's Cf-Moto group and check to see if there is a Bandit Group there as well. Most of the less expensive 250's are experiencing "minor" issues that are easily addressed during set up. Depending on your level af mechanical aptitude you may want to buy one from a dealer. Look around in this board (200cc) for some ideas on what to expect from common 250's. The Tank Lee was sent was a Lemon but others with the Rocketa, Tank, etc models have had good luck. The Q-link that Dawg is currently reviewing seems to be of exceptional quality and is the same money. The styling is radically different than the one your looking at but performance is excellent. Lee reports top speed near 70 mph. If you can swing a little more money Daelim and Kymco are excellent choices as well. Bandit is a known brand but not necessarily any better or worse than the other scoots. With cheap scoots especially drop shipped ones your entering into a crap shoot...you just hope the dice land in your favor.
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Post by medman1952 on Nov 26, 2006 14:28:48 GMT -5
That is a nice looking scoot, I believe it uses a Linhai-Yamaha moter (not sure if that is spelled correctly) that dealer has a brick and motar dealership in Oregon someplace, he also sells in Ebay under the name of JJ's sports. That is about all I know about him, I can not comment on the reliability of the dealership.
I was just looking at the options available, the 150cc version has a performance upgrade option for $149.00. I wonder what they toss in for that. The 250cc has no performance upgrade option, but then it might not need it.
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Post by scooterollie on Nov 26, 2006 15:03:31 GMT -5
The 250 is a Linhai-Yamaha engine/drive train. Don't know about the 150. As I have said in other posts, this might be an excellent scoot but there just isn't much feedback about them. I communicated extensively last summer with one person who did have considerable trouble with his 250. Don't remember the body style and I don't believe it was a Bandit.
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Post by banditms on Nov 26, 2006 18:28:48 GMT -5
Sean, Not sure how many dawgs have one of our Bandit UC-250zs... besides me. I have plenty of them sold at this time. If I had to summarize, based on experience I'd say the biggest problem we have with them is electronics - specifically, the CDI unit. Most problems are troubleshot over the phone quickly - and if anything happens, in most cases it's usually something different with the exception of about 6-8 CDI failures. Our UC-250z model utilizes the Linhai 257cc drive train... and since the radiator is up front where it should be (behind the front wheel) we don't suffer the same mechanical failaures as all of the other brands that have similar models to the Tank Touring 250. Our SX-250 model is the same body style as the Tank Touring, and the radiator is actually behind the fuel tank which reduces air flow. If you have a fan failure for any reason, the system overheats. This is why Admin on the ScooterBBS doesn't like those models. I think since our SX-250z model utilizes the Linhai drive train as well, it has spared us the overheating anxieties that other brands have suffered. We try to stock all parts all the time, but it's difficult even with fewer models and colors than other importers would carry. We're pretty strong in parts for our 150cc models, but need some more time to get up a good stock of spare parts for our 250cc models. We do stock most of the body panels as well... we're working with jspencer right now trying to get him everything that he needs. But unfortunately, the nose panel is the front of the scooter and is the one that takes the damage when riding... so we are short on those. We try our best to make sure you are riding your scooter and not waiting on us for info or parts. We aint perfect by any means... we have customers who are waiting on body panels and other less common small parts. We start and test run every scooter before it ships, and check all functions as well so that we know when it left, it was working as it should. This procedure has reduced the number of DOA's to 1-2 per 100 units shipped. And those were easy to troubleshoot since we knew the scooter worked when it left. On the performance mods for the 150's, we put in a modified carb, aftermarket air-filter and open the exhaust. Fuel economy goes down but acceleration goes way up. We do not currently offer a performance upgrade on our 250 models but we have put one on my UC-250z - it turned it into a rocket. ( - ; Just as a side note, we've found that parts are the future of the chinese scooter market so we are shifitng focus slightly and becoming more of a parts house than just straight scooter sales. In order to do this, we will be posting all of the assembly drawings of the various models on our website and indicating availability there. Also, since I am a mechanical engineer with 15 years automotive experience, I'm in the process of developing some new (large) scooter engines - just for fun... ( - ; Let us know if you have specific questions... Thanks, Jim J... Bandit MotorSports www.bandit-motorsports.com |
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Post by Admin on Nov 26, 2006 21:32:51 GMT -5
Welcome to the pound banditms. Glad to see you here. Your post was excellent.
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Post by scooterollie on Nov 26, 2006 22:36:30 GMT -5
Jim;
Thanks for the detailed info about your products. Clears up some of the mystery about your scoots!
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Post by Aaron on Nov 26, 2006 23:11:08 GMT -5
Jim dittos on the welcome... straight up and honest post that's what we like to see. You sir a welcome addition to the board. Glad to see you focusing on the issues that plague the Chinese scoot market. Keep up the good work.
Aaron
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Post by medman1952 on Nov 27, 2006 2:15:36 GMT -5
Banditms, A couple questions.
on the 150, I'm asssuming it is a GY6, you say the acceleration goes way up after the performance mods. How many mph do you think you get out of the mods? Your page says the top end is 55 - 60 have any idea what that would go up to?
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Post by banditms on Nov 27, 2006 17:18:02 GMT -5
First of all, thank all of you for the kind welcome! We hope to be worth while contributors to the forum... Medman, yes, our 150's are GY6 clones to be sure. Our performance upgrade really only increases the torque output of the engine. Due to us not modifying anything in the transmission (veriator, clutch weights or gear box gears) the top speed is not really changed at all. I think it might be going faster sooner (ie, 65 mph top speed in 15 secs instead of 45 secs) but I don't think there is a measurable difference in true top speed. The acceleration is greatly increased though. I can pick up the front wheel from a standing start on our model equivalent to a Tank Sporty (very light bike)... and we've done drag races between modified and unmodified bikes as well to gauge the differences. For the 250cc bikes that we currently offer, we have only done the performance mods on my UC-250z. It even sounds alot different both at an idle and then at speed... ( - ; Let us know if you have other questions... Thanks, Jim J... Bandit MotorSports www.bandit-motorsports.com |
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Post by jackryan on Nov 27, 2006 22:58:27 GMT -5
Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your message. I spoke today with Kari and she was very helpful, even if I was a blathering idiot on the phone with her. I must say Im becoming more and more entranced with your scooter as well as your business. You seem very upfront with the strengths and weakness of the scooter. Do you have any performance specs for this bike. Like top speed? My plan is to do some long distance rides on it as well as it being my daily driver. I really want a scooter that will do 75-80mph so I can get on the freeway here in Phoenix and not fear for my life. I am glad that you have changed to the radiator in front of the fuel cell versus the tanks way of doing things. Has anybody done any really long trips on one yet?
Thanks,
Sean
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Post by banditms on Nov 29, 2006 0:10:31 GMT -5
Sean, Sorry to say that I've not done any freeway riding on my UC-250z as of yet. The fastest I have gone is about 70 mph on our state hghways just for the purpose of seeing what it was like. And the furthest I've gone is maybe 150 miles round trip. It did fine for that ride. Unfortunately, I don't really hear back at all from customers if everything is OK with their scooter. I only hear from them when something is not OK. ( - ; I do have a new local customer who just bought a UC-250z and he's planning some longer rides and even some freeway runs... but only when it warms up again. I'll be able to monitor him locally but it will be some time before we can get some detailed feedback for your questions... sorry. Let us know if you have other questions... Thanks, Jim J... Bandit MotorSports www.bandit-motorsports.com |
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Post by jspencer on Dec 11, 2006 22:02:01 GMT -5
Just want to add my 2 cents here -- I bought two scoots from Bandit in November.
They were both 150s, not 250s, but I have to say I've been very impressed by Bandit's support. We had some minor damage from the shipping on one scooter, and I caused some damage myself by being stupid. Bandit has been very responsive to my requests for support and except for the minor shipping damage, the scooters arrived in excellent condition.
One reason I chose Bandit was that I kept reading recommendations in many forums to upgrade the carburetor, the battery, etc. to get a scooter that would be reliable, but when I looked at the details on the Bandit site their scoots already had the upgraded components. So I figured that even if it cost me a little more I was ahead because I would otherwise be buying and installing those components.
If/when I'm ready to move up to a 250 it will almost certainly be a Bandit.
Jon
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Post by flashback on Dec 20, 2006 19:05:05 GMT -5
Just received my new UC-250z from Bandit a few days ago. No damage in shipment. Had a few minor problems but Bandit has an excellent staff and was very helpfull. I plan to stay local until all the bugs are worked out before any long trips. Would like to add a thanks to the support at Bandit, thanks Jim and Ed. i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/flashback_photos/scoot-250.jpgDave |
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Post by Dennis D on Dec 20, 2006 19:44:18 GMT -5
That's one very nice looking scooter. I'm partial to scoots with a floor in front of the seat. Nice for carrying certain large things like case of water or pop, but that one I like well enough I could give up the floor space!
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Post by Admin on Dec 21, 2006 8:26:27 GMT -5
It seems like Bandit MS continues to get good feedback.
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Post by banditms on Dec 21, 2006 20:24:22 GMT -5
Lee, We honestly try hard for our custoers... it only makes sense to me as a consumer that if I buy something online, I want it to work right and be reliable when I get it. That may not be the case every time right out of the box... but we do work with our customers to get them to that point... But I'm the first one to admit that we aren't perfect. We have customers who have been waiting a while for body panels... or small parts on the 250's (which we haven't built up enough parts base for yet) ... or we get a request but we have difficulty answering quickly - and it falls thru the cracks in our system... We genuinely want our customers to be happy with their Bandit scooter, and when they are not, it affects us negatively. We do have a few customers (2-3) out there that would probably not give us favorable feedback... but it's not from a lack of trying on our part. Alot of our hurdles to being faster at parts and tech is our supplier. Most of the Chinese factories aren't interested in being parts houses... they want to build and sell products. And it's a mind set that our supplier has been working to change. He has been air-freighting parts to us regularly as we put small orders together... but the bulk of our parts orders come with the scooters themselves - if we get the right ones... ( - ; Anyways... just my thoughts on that... Jim J... Bandito MotorSports www.bandit-motorsports.com |
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Post by Aaron on Dec 21, 2006 21:25:50 GMT -5
Jim have a Karma on me. As an importer your honest and insightful look at the other side of the industry is appreciated.
Aaron
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Post by Admin on Dec 21, 2006 22:28:42 GMT -5
Jim J, I have a question, or maybe more of a comment, for you. I was nosing around through your website and see that you have an option available for $149 of setting up the scooter before delivery. I'm curious if that includes starting the scooter and giving her a little test ride. I think that 90% of the problems that have given internet sales such a bad reputation is that so many folks just don't have the skills to solve the little problems that can come with setting up a new scooter. If I were selling scooters on the internet, I would really push this. I would probably even price the scooter higher and make it standard but offer a discount if the buyer agreed that they had the skills and wouldn't whine about it if they had problems.
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Post by jspencer on Dec 22, 2006 9:20:55 GMT -5
Dawg, I think I'm qualified to comment on that because I had Bandit set up both my scooters. I considered the $149 a bargain for setup. At least one other online scooter seller offers the service on some scooters for $199, which I consider a fair price, especially since it includes running it, making sure everything works and is tight, and then re-crating it for delivery.
My scooters arrived fully assembled and even had a little gas in the tank. They required only one step by me -- reconnecting the battery cables -- and then were ready to ride right out of the box.
I think I see where you are going with your suggestion and I agree with you -- the Internet sales concept has to migrate toward delivering a complete scooter ready to ride. The mechanically inclined customer who is willing to do his or her own setup can be offered a discount with the caveat that they understand what they are taking on and won't complain about the results.
But if Chinese scooters are going to penetrate the market beyond the mechanically-inclined, they are going to have to arrive at their destination assembled, with everything tightened down, and ready to scoot.
Jon
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Post by Admin on Dec 22, 2006 9:54:43 GMT -5
You are right on track, Jon. I grew up in the day when you pulled into a gas station and a guy came out and pumped your gas, checked your oil and washed the windshield. They even checked the air in the tires and put air in them (free). You could call the phone company and actually speak to a live human without pushing buttons for 25 minutes. We think we live in such a great era now with all the tech advances but I don't think it's really all that much better.
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Post by banditms on Dec 22, 2006 20:52:31 GMT -5
Dawg, I hear what you are saying about ready-to-ride scooters over the internet. We've had this discussion and many others before here at the shop. We don't suffer from a lack of ideas to improve our services or how we deliver our scooters to customers. The main road block comes down to a dollar figure... There are some customers like Jon S who research a whole bunch before they make a purchase - and Jon found several posts by me on the scooterBBS where he appreciated my blunt honest approach. I have several customers who've done the same... But the greatest percentage of customers shopping on-line look at the photo's of the scooters, decide that they are all the same (and every seller is just re-badging the same bike) and they go with the cheapest price they can find. Very rarely does the customer read any of the available info on the sellers website... in fact, most on-line sellers make it a point NOT to provide any details about their products or services. And if they do, it's some fine print about voiding the warranty tucked away somewhere hidden... so most buyers never even know about it - until they call for some help... But Jon S is still a good example of consumers who are doing research. And while some may think that $1200-1500 spent on a scooter isn't too big of a deal, a large number of consumers do. I think as time goes on, more consumers start to understand that there is a difference (however minute or great) between each of the brands even though everything pretty much comes out of China any more... All of our scooters are test started, ran and checked before shipping - even units that go out in the factory crate. This procedure has cut DOA's down to almost nothing (we still get about 2-3 per year). We check everything that we can in the factory crate before recovering and banding it for shipment. Any scooter that is sold with the complete assy and custom crating for $149 is not only started and ran, but also test ridden to check brakes, fluids, tire pressure, bolts on the exhaust mount.. and is ready-to-ride right out of the crate. You and Jon are correct, there would be several non-mechanicals that would go for this scenario if the price was right... and some mechanicals who would want a discount of some kind. I think offering it as a service for now is about the best scenario. Those who want it will pay for it, and those who want the 'kit' type of scooter sale, won't take the option... But I will be considering your ideas at length just the same. The industry is getting very competitive and there has to be something to make a particular seller stand out in the crowd... ( - ; Thanks, Jim J... Bandit MotorSports www.bandit-motorsports.com |
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Post by cruseman on Dec 23, 2006 7:37:32 GMT -5
Hello Jim, I do like your products, how about a "very competitive" a scootdawg discount?
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Post by Admin on Dec 23, 2006 15:32:59 GMT -5
Good discussion. Jim, obviously you have to run your business in a way that works. I think the up-front approach you use is a better long term strategy for building a business. Customers appreciate it and you will get the referals and return business. I've been moderating scooter forums for a long time and I see time after time the folks who buy the cheapest and find the forum for advice after they get a lemon and no support. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to the wall but I've said it over and over. Support, parts in stock, warranties....they cost $$. Buying the cheapest guarantees that you get no support. Paying for dealer prep is well worth it in my book. I've prepped several scooters myself and it can be painful, even if you've got some experience.
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Post by lee82 on Dec 23, 2006 15:42:19 GMT -5
Speaking of painful, I missed what happened to the Tank 250.
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Post by Admin on Dec 23, 2006 16:36:44 GMT -5
The Tank 250 was a disaster. Part of it was my health at the time but the major part of it was that it is not a worthy machine. I never could get spark. Holes for wiring look like they were punched out with a hammer. Simply put, they sent me a scooter that didn't run. I know that there are a lot of happy Tank owners out there but why would a company send a scooter for review that they hadn't at least checked to see if it would run? I cannot give it the ScootDawg Seal of Approval. I also give them a F for communication. You know, when I was doing the rx150i and the Pegasus, those guys were great to work with. Upcoming is the ItalJet Dragster and hopefully something from Daelim.
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Post by flhtri on Dec 23, 2006 16:52:05 GMT -5
I cant agree more with what has been said on this board recently.If you buy cheap from a nobody you WILL regret it.I have been undecided about wether I should buy a TNG or a SYM scooter next. As I have been reading the posts by Banditms my list appears to be down to his Lowboy clone or jumping to his UC250Z.He is on the right track with his honesty and the support it sounds like he provides.It may take a while but in time the scooter enthusiast will know who where and what to buy,and it sounds to me like Bandit will be way up on that list.
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Post by banditms on Dec 26, 2006 16:09:05 GMT -5
Thank you to everyone for your kind words and support. We'll try hard not to disappoint anyone... ( - ;
Cruseman, in regards to your request for a competitive discount for fellow dawgs, I think that's something I could do in the summer season like have winter pricing for fellow dawgs or somethin. Or you could take advantage of our current special...
I have discussed the proposal that ScootDawg made with my staff and we are willing to try it for a while to see what happens. Basically, we are offering our Complete Assy and Custom Crating service for free for now. What this provides is a scooter ready to ride straight out of the box. We will not only start, run and check all of the scooter functions before shipping, we will also test ride, check brakes and fluids, and make changes as needed before shipping. And we won't send out any bikes with cheesey spark plugs either. ( - ;
It is a good suggestion from ScootDawg and others... and we want to do something more to stand out as more of a full-support importer and not just anothe drop-shipper (which we aren't)...
ScootDawgs problem with the Tank 250 not having spark from the start would not be a common problem if they checked their bikes prior to shipment like we do. We have one customer right now who is in the same situation with our retro model... but I'm pretty sure it's a wire harness that came loose in shipping...
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Post by Aaron on Dec 26, 2006 16:16:15 GMT -5
Jim I'm the last guy to reject a discount but make sure your still around at the end of next year. People will pay more for premium service and quality products. You are out to make a living too. Don't give away the store so to speak. Great response to consumer suggestions Jim. Keep it up.
Aaron
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Post by Admin on Dec 26, 2006 16:21:02 GMT -5
;D
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