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Post by clyffcarlock on Feb 24, 2013 9:52:56 GMT -5
Can a 250cc engine be placed in a 150cc scooter? Is it safe... in that, can the frame handle the power of a 250cc engine? What modifications would be needed to make the swap? Thank you.
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Post by inuyasha on Feb 24, 2013 10:11:39 GMT -5
Hi
Welcome aboard
Pleased to meet you
Any thing is possible
And people swap, mix and match engines and frames all the time
You would have to have excellent mechanical, metal fabrication, and welding skills to do it though
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank
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Post by boamedt on Feb 24, 2013 11:24:35 GMT -5
I've seen it done, and I'm planning to do it eventually to the green Melanie
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Post by Scooter Elements on Feb 24, 2013 11:36:02 GMT -5
Its been done plenty of times. A few people here in Puerto Rico have done it. Just requires a torch, Welder and time  |
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Post by clyffcarlock on Feb 24, 2013 13:21:31 GMT -5
Is there a thread on the forum detailing any information about what is involved...what after markets parts are needed and what mods or cuts or welds are required. So everyone is saying, that the 150cc frame is strong enough for the weight and torque for a 250cc engine. Am i understanding the few recent post right? Are there any additional extra supports needed to be welded to the frame to support the extra weight and torque of the larger engine? Thanks again.
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Post by Terri "Bunny" Lee on Feb 24, 2013 13:28:31 GMT -5
im just a dumb ol' woman
but i dont think , unless u re-strengthen it alot,
do all kinds of welding mods etcjust my 2
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Post by inuyasha on Feb 24, 2013 13:48:49 GMT -5
Is there a thread on the forum detailing any information about what is involved...what after markets parts are needed and what mods or cuts or welds are required. So everyone is saying, that the 150cc frame is strong enough for the weight and torque for a 250cc engine. Am i understanding the few recent post right? Are there any additional extra supports needed to be welded to the frame to support the extra weight and torque of the larger engine? Thanks again. Hi It all depends on the scoot you plan to use and the engine Theres really no set instructions you will have to engineer design and modify on the fly That's where having excellent skills in fabrication , welding and all around mechanical aptitude come to play Take care and ride safely Yours Hank |
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Post by skuttadawg on Feb 24, 2013 14:26:27 GMT -5
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Post by jeepsteve92xj on Feb 24, 2013 22:36:48 GMT -5
Hell yea! That is exactly the same style as mine - a Xingyue ITA 150 - same body, wheels, dash..... Now I want that YY300T-8, Engine type:4 stroke, Single cylinder, water cool Maximum Power: 12.0kw/6500r/min That would be super sweet. I can't even find a BBK over that 156(?)cc that scrappydogscooters.com/plus the scrappydog 4V head, and EFI, and a home modified exhaust so Id still be only up to 10 or 12 whole horsepower. oooo Now if anyone knows where I can get a complete jonway 300 engine ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by prodigit on Feb 24, 2013 23:13:06 GMT -5
if you're asking if it's hot-swappable (like unmount one engine, mount the other), it is not.
Custom welding is necessary.
Also, not all scoots are as strong as the others. For instance, my impression is that the TaoTao EVO150 is a lot stronger than the PowerMax150; not only because it's heavier curb weight, but also wider design...
Problems would start with scooters once you're going at high speeds.
150cc scooters usually go no faster than 65MPH.
With a 250cc engine, you could potentially go 75, and when turning at those speeds, put a lot of torque on the frame.
I once overclocked my moped which seemed to run fine on 23MPH, to 30MPH, and the frame torqued as if turning at those speeds could possibly pop the bars!
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Post by rickmain on Feb 24, 2013 23:21:22 GMT -5
I put a CF250 watercooled in a 50cc TNG scooter frame a couple of years ago. Took a fair amount of skilled welding, making mount underneath for the radiator, modified the charging and ignition systems, added a second shock mount, but it worked. The isolation bar was left out so it would fit, so the vibration was so excessive it broke all the tail light mounts and rear plastic posts, but had fun with it in the meantime. The pic of it has been on the website at this link: www.scrappydogscooters.com/Performance.htmlBTW, we carry both the CF250 and the VOG300 complete engine, which you refer to as a Jonway 300, regardless, it's not a hot swap job like what was mentioned before. To be honest, my TGB 150 that had our 59mm Ruima big bore, our big valve head, performance cdi, coil, variator, and iridium plug, with 30mm CVK carb, could outrun it in top speed. The 150 would do nearly 80mph and I'd ride it on the freeway. The 250 would pop wheelies uncontrollably, but was also sketchy because it had 10" wheels. The old adage " no replacement for displacement" is often the easy way to more torque, but a properly built smaller, higher reving, better tuned engine will outrun much bigger engines. Another example is I own a Triumph Rocket III, which is 2300cc, but my 1000cc MV Agusta F4 can put the stomp on that much bigger bike. Both have been modified quite a bit. I can't leave things alone |
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Post by skuttadawg on Feb 25, 2013 0:13:42 GMT -5
Hahha a heavier scooter is stronger  ?? If you looked at the link I posted that model of scooter has a 125 a 150 and 250 and 300 engine option . That scooter handles better than my Echarm as I had one and a buddy has one and its almost 100 lbs lighter but I still dust him |
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Post by medman1952 on Feb 25, 2013 0:25:16 GMT -5
Back to the OP question, I have seen people post that they have put a 250 into a 150 frame.
Motor mounts are very similar but not the same, welding and fabrication though is not as extensive as putting a 150 into a 50cc frame.
You obviously have more trouble though because you will need to put a cooling system in and the wiring will not be the same.
Unfortunately I do not think we have a post from somebody that has done it with the steps they did.
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Post by jeepsteve92xj on Feb 25, 2013 9:42:58 GMT -5
But is that the engine for the 16" wheeled YY300T-8 With rear disc brake? I have the GY6-B or BN157QMJ oddball, so performance options are few, and swapping a motor and using a much smaller wheel would seem a bit against the reason for taller wheels in the first place. |
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Post by leftwayleft2 on Feb 25, 2013 9:52:02 GMT -5
When I was shopping around for my scooter I seen 150cc and 250cc scooters on identical frames.
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Post by rickmain on Feb 25, 2013 9:55:54 GMT -5
No, the CF250's are short case and accomodate 10" wheels always as far as I know. The VOG300's have 12 or 13" wheels. I'm familiar with the rarity of BN parts as I believe we are one of the few, if not the only sanctioned BN parts importers in the US. They just recently denied us some new parts I wanted to add because "US too small of a market". I would think a 16" wheeled 300cc would be even more rare and therefore the parts and engine would command more money to acquire, but can't tell you for sure. The chinese factories use very similar "looking" chassis's, from the outside. Upon closer inspection you will see that the frames have different mounts, different electrical and different ignitions, and more, but on the outside they look exactly alike. 150's are air cooled, and 250 are water cooled, making for even more modifications.
Unless you're able to do all of the work yourself in fabrication and modification, and are doing it just for the fun and challenge of it, I believe it is more sensible just to buy the larger scoot complete, but then again, why stop there, I just hopped up a Piaggio X9 which is a 500cc and it's got all the power one could need around town, and more. Will do 105-110 on the freeway and is relatively stable with 14" wheels at that speed. Personally, when you start getting into really large engines and big diameter wheels the advantages of having a scooter seem to diminish, and it seems more like a motorcycle (CVT not considered)
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Post by prodigit on Feb 25, 2013 12:47:38 GMT -5
Hahha a heavier scooter is stronger ?? If you looked at the link I posted that model of scooter has a 125 a 150 and 250 and 300 engine option . That scooter handles better than my Echarm as I had one and a buddy has one and its almost 100 lbs lighter but I still dust him Sometimes increased weight can indicate more steel in the frame. And a wider design will by default be stronger than a similar but narrow scooter, because what torques the frame is lateral forces. If there where very little lateral forces, most scooters would have been made after bicycles, one bar in width. But one thing I don't quite get, is that most motorcycles and scooters, all are centered around the handle bar mount/column. There's a piece of less than 5 inch in size, that prevents torque on the whole bike. In that piece, the forces are strongest. The whole bike can be double tubular steel pipes, but if that small piece's mounting points are weak, it'll just bend and flex all the time. |
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Post by skuttadawg on Feb 25, 2013 22:07:57 GMT -5
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Post by dyoung1167 on Feb 25, 2013 23:13:28 GMT -5
christ, 2 grand for just the motor while relying on that generic-ass page? i've bought toenail clippers that come with more info. |
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Post by prodigit on Feb 25, 2013 23:54:15 GMT -5
christ, 2 grand for just the motor while relying on that generic-ass page? i've bought toenail clippers that come with more info. LOL! Hadn't seen the price! Turns out half of the items they mention are Optional too! Then again, it does have a ceramic cylinder |
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Post by rickmain on Feb 26, 2013 2:15:28 GMT -5
What exactly does ceramic cylinder mean anyways? Our cylinders come with the label "ceramic cylinder" but they are aluminum with a steel insert and nikasil coating. I would think if it was actually ceramic that it would be very brittle and would not conduct heat and would wear the piston and rings down very quickly. I've only seen that designation on chinese product as if they don't really know what it means, just sound cool
Maybe someone here knows something I don't?
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Post by inuyasha on Feb 26, 2013 2:54:58 GMT -5
What exactly does ceramic cylinder mean anyways? Our cylinders come with the label "ceramic cylinder" but they are aluminum with a steel insert and nikasil coating. I would think if it was actually ceramic that it would be very brittle and would not conduct heat and would wear the piston and rings down very quickly. I've only seen that designation on chinese product as if they don't really know what it means, just sound cool Maybe someone here knows something I don't? Hi Rick This may help explain it www.sym.com.tw/eng/tech/engine.phpTake care and ride safely dear friend Yours Hank |
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Post by rickmain on Feb 26, 2013 4:27:02 GMT -5
Thanks Hank. I wonder why they are the only one doing ceramic. The japanese and European bikes all use Nikasil though.
I can say I got a few thousand miles out of my TGB 150 with our ceramic cylinder, and those were hard miles, but is 3000 miles alot? is for chinese/taiwanese scooters I guess. My Beemer though is about to clock 100k and never been rebuilt, and still starts cold instantly, and it uses Nikasil cylinders.
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Post by prodigit on Feb 26, 2013 13:47:38 GMT -5
Thanks to your link Hank, I've noticed the company created a wonderful motorcycle! www.sym.com.tw/eng/showroom/index.php?mode=brand&tid=2&bid=37According to the specs, it only consumes 1.3L/100km! Converted, that would mean it runs 630-720 miles, on it's 4,3GAL tank (tank said to have 13 or 14 liters, a bit conflicting data)! Though I presume I can take these numbers with a grain of salt. According to Google, that'd mean this bike does 180MPG, which is hard to imagine. If that where true, I wished they would release these type of bikes in USA already! Wished I could buy it, just for the fun of it! Though probably it'll be more than just $1000. Since it's a concept model, I think they realize even with running very lean that getting anything above 125MPG is very hard to do. 180 probably would be in best conditions, at a constant speed of 35MPH or so. |
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Post by jeepsteve92xj on Feb 27, 2013 10:42:34 GMT -5
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Post by inuyasha on Feb 27, 2013 11:54:40 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2013 18:15:54 GMT -5
They do get well in excess of 100mpg so long we don't take wind resistance into consideration.
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Post by jeepsteve92xj on Mar 2, 2013 10:49:25 GMT -5
I have no experience on any other scooters than my Xingyue and my Znen.
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