|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 5, 2012 14:00:51 GMT -5
Greetings all! I had major surgery Sept. 9, 2012 so I put some Seafoam in my tank (barely 1 gal in it) and let the trike way for me to be ready to ride again - trike has been great, I've done my oil changes, keep the battery on a tender, etc.. Well last weekend I tried to start my boy up - no dice. I sprayed carb cleaner down him, added more gas, nada. Several times very close to starting, but then nothing. When I was putting him back in the garage, lo and behold a wire made itself visible. I cannot tell what it goes to at all. I asked a friend of mine from work to see what he thought but he gave me a lot of hooie about my gas not being good for sitting in the tank for 5+ weeks despite the Seafoam... we checked the spark plug, spark was good. But no gas on the spark plug, gas is going to the carb... but I am still thinking a lot of this goes back to the mysterious wire. The wire comes from under the engine to the read and by distance looked like it should be attached to.... something. Anyway, electrical wise, all lights, radio, etc. are working - when I attempt to start a short hic (not even a hiccup) from him. Any ideas? Am I correct in thinking that the wire has an important job to do with the ignition system? All help appreciated - THANKS IN ADVANCE!!! -- Beejcctx ----------------------------- 2010 IceBear Magnum Trike, 2250 miles Breast Cancer Survivor Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by crossbolt on Nov 5, 2012 16:04:02 GMT -5
Big, fat wire? Like heavy copper, big lug on the end? What's on the end of this loose wire?
Karl
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 5, 2012 17:39:41 GMT -5
Karl - not a big lug - but small connector. Not super fat either since there is rubber around it (I presume to protect from heat of engine). Wire does feel somewhat heavy though. Nothing is on the end of the wire - it is like it disconnected from.... something (possibly even it's connector is broken as well)... I wish I knew what! I does come from underneath the engine on the right hand side, when I spotted it, it was on the left hand side of the motor when I went to ground to look for ideas as to why my boy wouldn't start.
|
|
|
Post by jazzman on Nov 5, 2012 20:01:40 GMT -5
The question is WHAT DOES THE OTHER END CONNECT TO? that will tell all and then your question can be answered, whether that wire stops it from starting or not. It could be a ground wire either from the battery to the frame or frame to motor. If that is a Frame to motor ground you would NOT GET SPARK, but you say you are getting spark.
So find what the other end of the wire is connected to and let us know then we can tell you where it should be connected.
|
|
|
Post by crossbolt on Nov 6, 2012 16:27:04 GMT -5
Jazzman has the right idea.
Karl
|
|
|
Post by jlee on Nov 6, 2012 16:44:05 GMT -5
Ummm, may seem like a dumb question - but are you sure it's a WIRE and not a HOSE?
First you say it has a small connector, then you say there is nothing on the end of it, hence the question.
Also, when you put the seafoam in back in September, did you let the engine run for 5 minutes or more? If not, the gas in the carburetor would not have been treated and gone stale.
|
|
|
Post by Parker2100 on Nov 6, 2012 18:06:21 GMT -5
Good point Jlee. I thought it was a dumb question also so I didn't ask although it came to my mind.
When you look at the end of the "wire" do you see copper or something metallic? Or is it hollow? If it is hollow, that is ether a vacuum hose or a vent hose. Sounds like the engine is trying to turn over. If so and what your describing could be a vacuum hose and that could be your problem. The engine needs vacuum to start.
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 7, 2012 11:30:52 GMT -5
Jlee - no I did not know I was supposed to run the engine for 5 minutes, so I need to drain the tank then and refill - yes?
As for the wire, yep it has a metallic "nub" that I cannot determine where it came from - here is the picture from the underside right side of engine showing the start of the wire.
Again, all help appreciated!!!!
THANKS!
-- Beejcctx
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 7, 2012 11:31:29 GMT -5
Here is pic Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by jlee on Nov 7, 2012 15:58:38 GMT -5
Jlee - no I did not know I was supposed to run the engine for 5 minutes, so I need to drain the tank then and refill - yes? No, not the gas tank. You should drain the carburetor. There should be a drain screw on the side at the very bottom.
|
|
|
Post by jlee on Nov 7, 2012 16:05:39 GMT -5
About the wire - looks like it might be a sensor of some sort. Do you have oil and/or water temperature guages on the dash? Or even just idiot lights for oil or water?
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 7, 2012 20:27:57 GMT -5
Ah, it is the Temperature gauge I guess. So hopefully Friday afternoon I will have time to drain the gas out and try again with fresh gas - will keep you updated THANKS ALL!
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 18, 2012 10:49:58 GMT -5
OK, FINALLY got enough time off from work and had friend over - completely drained gas out (even though he declared the gas ok) - removed the carb and he completely cleaned and checked all of it to ensure things were flowing throughout. I also removed and cleaned the air filter assembly.
Refilled tank with fresh gas, checked spark plug - good spark - all seemed ok - but still not turning over. Not even with starter fluid pushed into the carb.
So again, anybody got any ideas about that dang wire? My friend thinks it comes from the transmission/CVT and may well need to be connected so the engine will turn over. I wonder if it connects to the safety switch on the right handle....?
We also tested to see that the safety items (ensuring left brake is activated prior to attempting to start bike) were in place.
So.... help please....
MUCH THANKS!
-- Beejcctx
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 18, 2012 14:40:26 GMT -5
I was thinking that also, but I do not know how to disable... any ideas appreciated! THANKS!
|
|
|
Post by jazzman on Nov 18, 2012 14:53:16 GMT -5
If the Spark Plug is fireing which you tested the KILLSWITCH is not the problem. That is what the KILLSWITCH does it grounds the CDI and you will NOT GET a Spark.
Also let me ask this when you tested for SPARK did you hold the SPARK PLUG AGAINST the motor or FRAME. It may spark on the frame but not the motor and if it doesn't spark on the motor that wire MIGHT JUST BE the GROUND WIRE from the motor to the frame.
As it sits crank the sucker over a few times and then take the plug out and see if it is WET or DRY. That will tell you what the problem may be NO fuel is actually being sucked into the intake or To much and its flooding.
On the carb turn the Fuel Ratio Screw clockwise until it stops closeing it, Then turn it out counter clockwise 2 1/2 turns that is enough for it to start and idle and run pretty good if it is getting fuel.
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 18, 2012 14:55:52 GMT -5
Jazzman,
Sorry I am not very mechanically inclined and my friend who is ain't available today. IF the wire is supposed to be the ground wire - where should I put it?
The plug was damp.... not super wet, but once I know what to do with the wire, I can try the fuel ratio screw after that.... yes?
AGAIN ALL HELP APPRECIATED!
|
|
|
Post by jazzman on Nov 18, 2012 15:08:16 GMT -5
Beejcctx, The thing that is important at this point is When testing for SPARK was the PLUG HELD on the motor or was it held on the FRAME. Like I said it will fire on the frame because the Battery and other electricals are grounded to the frame. But on all scoots there HAS TO BE A GROUND WIRE from the frame and attached to the motor, otherwise the SPARK PLUG will NOT FIRE when it is in the motor.
So just for chuckles since the other end of the wire is on the motor Bolt the other end of the wire to the frame and see if it fires.
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 18, 2012 15:42:33 GMT -5
I will do that the instant I can get out of work.... I want my boy working!!! I've been saying from the beginning that I thought that durn wire was important -- when I retire I am taking a small motor class so I can learn more about my bike!!!! THANKS!
|
|
|
Post by jlee on Nov 18, 2012 16:13:38 GMT -5
If the Spark Plug is fireing which you tested the KILLSWITCH is not the problem. That is what the KILLSWITCH does it grounds the CDI and you will NOT GET a Spark. Yup, of course. I must have had a brain fart when suggesting that. Duh. Never post before your first cup of coffee!
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 21, 2012 6:37:09 GMT -5
OK, today's update: tried the wire on the frame, no joy again. Dang wire HAS to be attached to something within 12" of where is located....so I continue my hunt. Is it possible it actually closes the loop for the killswitch so the system would turn over...? I dunno....
Again all assistance appreciated!
|
|
|
Post by rapidjim on Nov 21, 2012 16:44:52 GMT -5
Beejcctx, I got your PM and will answer here instead so all get the benefit. That wire is for the neutral light. Has nothing to do with the trike starting or running. Now as far as the "wire: on the left hand side of the motor in your other pic. If it has a "barrel" connection on the end, it is most likely the wire for the temp sensor. The temp sensor is located on the right side of the motor on the head. A brass round sensor. Once again this being disconnected will not effect the motor running. Now for the no start condition. Lets start completely at square one and see if we can figure out what is missing. Your trike basically needs 4 things in order to run, Spark, Air, Fuel and Compression. Once we determine what is missing we can troubleshoot further to find out why. With all that has been done, I think the best place to start is spark. First off, remove the spark plug. Look at it to see if it is wet or if the end is black. If you have either one or both conditions, get a new plug before checking spark. Then put the spark plug wire on the plug, place the thread end of the plug on the engine case and engage the starter. While the motor is cranking look at the end of the plug to make sure you have spark. If so, that eliminates a spark issue. Install the plug and make sure the plug wire is installed tightly on the plug. Again, attempt to start the trike. If it does not start then we have a different issue. If you do not have good spark, then we have to troubleshoot the ignition system. If good spark is present, from above, we can move on to the fuel system. First, look over the carb area and make sure all vacuum lines are connected. Then remove the air filter from the carb, and using carb cleaner, squirt a small amount directly into the carb throat. The use of carb cleaner is better than starting fluid. Using to much starting fluid can cause engine damage. Again, attempt to start. If it trys to start, then we have a fuel related problem. Let us know. Jim/Owner Rapid Repair
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 25, 2012 18:08:58 GMT -5
Ok gang - replaced the spark plug yesterday afternoon and he came back to life - revving pretty high (no tach but really going) in neutral, once I put him in forward he settled down a bit so I let him idle for 10 minutes then rode him for an hour including stopping to gas up. (I also added a tweak of K&N oil to the air filter). This morning I am looking forward to ride and only a spurt of trying to turn over on first attempt/s to start him, then back to how he was before - I doublechecked the plug all looked good -- tried several times no joy - first crank it tries to start then nothing. Now I am wondering if the battery might be the issue - it is the original one, kept on battery tender when not being ridden. I've checked hoses and wires - all in place....just frustrating.
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 25, 2012 19:59:41 GMT -5
BTW if you guys think it's the battery, post what size I need so I can go straight to Interstate and get one.... *sigh*
|
|
|
Post by jazzman on Nov 25, 2012 23:17:12 GMT -5
All you need to do is measure the battery storage area, Width, Length and Height, then find a 12V battery at Least 9AMP with the most CCAs(COLD CRANKING AMPS) in the high 100s..ie 180 190 etc.. if you find one over 200 CCAs get that one. Check your battery and see what what the AMPS are it may be just a 7amp battery. They do not put the best batteries in them.
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Nov 26, 2012 6:54:28 GMT -5
Thanks Jazzman - another teardown for me to get in there - but I'm thinking battery as well. Since the cranking ain't happening....
|
|
|
Post by rapidjim on Nov 27, 2012 11:00:36 GMT -5
Interstate Battery number CYTX9-BS.
Jim
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Dec 2, 2012 10:31:35 GMT -5
Ack, saw your message after I had already bought the battery - ended up with this one
FAYTX12 Cycle-Tron Plus - 10 AH
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Dec 2, 2012 10:34:25 GMT -5
Either way still having same issue - ALMOST starts on first crank - sputters and then nothing.... if I wait 10-15 minutes same result.... Gonna try and figure out where the fuel filter is next....
|
|
|
Post by jazzman on Dec 2, 2012 21:19:14 GMT -5
When your trying to start it Hold the throttle a little open and see if it starts if it starts give the throttle a couple of little twists as it is going to burn off any excess gas on the plug.
It also may be time to adjust the valves.
|
|
|
Post by beejcctx on Dec 9, 2012 20:35:49 GMT -5
Finally resolved!!! 1) New battery was not "necessary" but I am glad I did put a USA made battery in. Anyway - the main problem all along was that my friend who rebuilt and cleaned the carbs put the throttle linkage on wrong - that fix took about half a hour today - all settled now and idle is adjusted . Got my auxiliary electronic devices installed....he ran awesome . I'm back riding my boy! Thank you everyone for your guidance and encouragement!
|
|