|
Post by mainepeace on Sept 24, 2012 21:06:01 GMT -5
I see where you got your conclusions from. Being "cash poor" is a problem with small to medium size businesses. Not having enough cash on hand for a specific purpose is not necessarily the same thing as not having that much cash in the bank. Credit card deposits are delayed from 2-4 days and Amazon delays payments up to 14 days. Payroll is typically paid by check which theoretically can be removed from the bank that day. Also, having tens of thousands (or more) tied up in inventory depletes the "cash on hand" yet still allows for a positive bottom line.
Selling parts online I have roughly a 5-8% margin. Giving a 5% Scootdawg discount means many times I make nothing on sales. Why do it then? Bad business practice? My intent is to give back to the community and provide jobs. Personally I am not out to make money beyond what I need to pay bills. I provide jobs for locals and pay them more than I take home myself. Anyway, this has nothing to do with unscrupulous customers who think its morally fine to buy a product, use a product, then return for a full refund.
Greg
|
|
|
Post by macktheknife on Sept 25, 2012 5:33:00 GMT -5
Anyway, this has nothing to do with unscrupulous customers who think its morally fine to buy a product, use a product, then return for a full refund.I totally agree but you were the one who said this puts you in such a bad situation and people might not be paid and such. What you said about the way the buyers can do with a credit card is wrong so it would seem that the credit card system is no better than paypal at this point, only time will tell if you get your money back and are treated fairly. As far as cash poor been there and ways of working around that too in business so the next time this happens it won't create so much drama for you.
|
|
|
Post by Carolina Fun Machines on Sept 25, 2012 14:53:21 GMT -5
God, this is such a fun business... no wonder everyone wants to be in it. Need some money to get into the scooter business, ask your parents for a loan. Ha Ha
|
|
|
Post by rapidjim on Sept 26, 2012 10:34:05 GMT -5
Anyway, this has nothing to do with unscrupulous customers who think its morally fine to buy a product, use a product, then return for a full refund.I totally agree but you were the one who said this puts you in such a bad situation and people might not be paid and such. What you said about the way the buyers can do with a credit card is wrong so it would seem that the credit card system is no better than paypal at this point, only time will tell if you get your money back and are treated fairly. As far as cash poor been there and ways of working around that too in business so the next time this happens it won't create so much drama for you. I said it before and will say it again, Paypal is 100% for the consumer and NO recourse for the seller, even when the consumer is 150% WRONG!!!!!! Had a customer file a dispute over an Item I sold, the description on the item was 100% correct. I answered the complaint with my side and within minutes I got an answer saying they were siding with the consumer. They didn't even check it out! Also the 21 day wait is utter crap! I had a paypal account from 1994 until 2011 and only had one dispute in all that time. At least with credit card dispute you have a fighting chance if all your ducks are in a row and have proof the consumer is attempting "friendly fraud". I have seen it work for the business and against the consumer. Also, at least with a credit card I have my money in the bank within 48 hours, normally within 24. Banks can a check for 3 business days. No system is perfect but, Paypal is on the bottom of the list and I will not use them. If I loose a customer because I refuse to use Paypal, then so be it. With small businesses, cash flow can be an issue, esp if you have a lot of credit card sales and/or waiting for customers to pick up and pay for a machine that is fixed and you have your money tied up in parts. Just the nature of the beast. I guess one way to work around cash flow problems would be to have $100,000 in the bank just sitting there. LOL Jim
|
|
|
Post by Scooter Elements on Sept 26, 2012 12:39:56 GMT -5
yup the whole wait thing on paypal sucks. i think it was about a month ago where we had i think almost $4,000 in a pending balance because of the 21 day wait. But last week paypal removed it and now we have our funds ASAP but i am sure it will come back. I bought an item from a ebayer and in his packing slip read what it says. I guess paypal does this to alot of people and its not fair.
|
|
|
Post by jcz775 on Sept 26, 2012 14:35:13 GMT -5
Sorry about your loss my friend. I started to transfer funds once they came threw into a separate account, just for this reason. It always helps when people are out to get you. Hopefully this Cannuck will send your parts back.
|
|
|
Post by ericrockstar on Sept 26, 2012 17:06:13 GMT -5
I recently sold an old camera on eBay for like $300. By the time eBay and PayPal got their cut I was left with $260.
I've bought many things on eBay, but this was my first sale. I guess it still worked better than the scammers and lowballers on CL but it was a little disappointing that everyone got a cut of my old camera. I got my money right away, but I guess you vendors are somewhat different. IDK how they could hold it for 21 days?
Sent from my iPhone 5 using ProBoards
|
|
|
Post by prizmm on Sept 26, 2012 17:35:35 GMT -5
So for all the banner vendors on here which is your PREFERED way of payment from us the buyer, ? Am happy to go either debit or paypal
|
|
|
Post by macktheknife on Sept 26, 2012 19:56:45 GMT -5
Anyway, this has nothing to do with unscrupulous customers who think its morally fine to buy a product, use a product, then return for a full refund.I totally agree but you were the one who said this puts you in such a bad situation and people might not be paid and such. What you said about the way the buyers can do with a credit card is wrong so it would seem that the credit card system is no better than paypal at this point, only time will tell if you get your money back and are treated fairly. As far as cash poor been there and ways of working around that too in business so the next time this happens it won't create so much drama for you. I said it before and will say it again, Paypal is 100% for the consumer and NO recourse for the seller, even when the consumer is 150% WRONG!!!!!! Had a customer file a dispute over an Item I sold, the description on the item was 100% correct. I answered the complaint with my side and within minutes I got an answer saying they were siding with the consumer. They didn't even check it out! Also the 21 day wait is utter crap! I had a paypal account from 1994 until 2011 and only had one dispute in all that time. At least with credit card dispute you have a fighting chance if all your ducks are in a row and have proof the consumer is attempting "friendly fraud". I have seen it work for the business and against the consumer. Also, at least with a credit card I have my money in the bank within 48 hours, normally within 24. Banks can a check for 3 business days. No system is perfect but, Paypal is on the bottom of the list and I will not use them. If I loose a customer because I refuse to use Paypal, then so be it. With small businesses, cash flow can be an issue, esp if you have a lot of credit card sales and/or waiting for customers to pick up and pay for a machine that is fixed and you have your money tied up in parts. Just the nature of the beast. I guess one way to work around cash flow problems would be to have $100,000 in the bank just sitting there. LOL Jim As I stated no perfect system but again on my side of the fence I've never had the FBI knock on my door using paypal and the world is full of credit card scams. Also one has to be careful with the credit cards too if you're a seller, just as many of them side with only the buyer. When you think of it in most cases on all claims good or bad it's on a basis of he say, they say which in a court of law is your word against theirs, doesn't matter if you have emails and such because in most cases emails aren't even permissable evidence in court. On the cash flow thing there are ways of working that out too. Was in business for years doing shutdown workd for large companies all over the country and the minimum pay time was 90 days from a approved invoice which in some cases could be 2 weeks before you had sign off signatures but all the time my vendors had to be paid in 30 days net and payroll didn't stop just because I hadn't been paid. I sold signed invoices to my financial institution for a 1% fee and got my money on a weekly basis and after a couple of years was able to have enough back to stand the 90 days and such, like I said ways around it.
|
|
s3nfo
Junior Dawg
Posts: 5
|
Post by s3nfo on Sept 26, 2012 21:35:30 GMT -5
You do realize that March is half a year away, right? Means he's got to make enough income in the 6 months he sells scoots to pay the fixed bills for a whole year. Sounds like he's making a good go of it to me.......
|
|
|
Post by macktheknife on Sept 29, 2012 7:19:34 GMT -5
yup the whole wait thing on paypal sucks. i think it was about a month ago where we had i think almost $4,000 in a pending balance because of the 21 day wait. But last week paypal removed it and now we have our funds ASAP but i am sure it will come back. I bought an item from a ebayer and in his packing slip read what it says. I guess paypal does this to alot of people and its not fair. You left out ebay. The slip read paypal/ebay. paypal sucksThe last time I checked you have the right just like Mainely Scooters to not use them? So if you're using a system you don't like and sucks, who is to blame?
|
|
|
Post by macktheknife on Sept 29, 2012 7:39:58 GMT -5
You do realize that March is half a year away, right? Means he's got to make enough income in the 6 months he sells scoots to pay the fixed bills for a whole year. Sounds like he's making a good go of it to me....... The whole thread is confusing? Starts as bad customer and the prefered method he chooses to use in a credit card use now taking $500 from his account and employees maybe missing their paycheck. Then saying he's far from being out of business and it's just a cash flow thing and refusing to use paypal because of the long wait for his money and their unfair always take the side of the customer policies. Now if I understand correctly he is now in a dispute trying to get his money back and the customer either still has the products sold or has returned them used and has asks for his money back and left him the seller out on a limb. I don't have a clue as to how long this dispute will take when I had to prove I hadn't made charges on my credit card in Mexico and it finally got cleared up it was over 7 months later and in all that time they had my card frozen for something I didn't do. So paypal's policies is 21 days? To me that's small potatoes compared to 7 months. Like I said before no perfect system even if you decided to accept personal checks or cashiers checks a customer has the right to just call their bank, dispute the products recieved and stop payment or get a refund until the seller if they can show them wrong. Regretfully you'll find that most institutions lean toward the buyer and the reason is simple, it's their money to start with and it's one of the things that will never go away for another reason. You are buying/selling over a computer and not dealing in a way of walking into a store, looking at the product, making sure it is correct for your needs and then paying to a person from hand to hand and both being satisfied that all is well. Also this is just one of the evils of being in busioness sometimes and in this case right or wrong this seller chose this method of payment and now he's got to deal with this problem and hopefully he'll recieve justice and get his money back. If not it'll still be a tax deduction.
|
|
|
Post by hardd1 on Sept 29, 2012 8:44:58 GMT -5
maybe Greg will be forced to raise his prices to offset the loss....
|
|
|
Post by Scooter Elements on Sept 29, 2012 8:48:38 GMT -5
yup the whole wait thing on paypal sucks. i think it was about a month ago where we had i think almost $4,000 in a pending balance because of the 21 day wait. But last week paypal removed it and now we have our funds ASAP but i am sure it will come back. I bought an item from a ebayer and in his packing slip read what it says. I guess paypal does this to alot of people and its not fair. You left out ebay. The slip read paypal/ebay. paypal sucksThe last time I checked you have the right just like Mainely Scooters to not use them? So if you're using a system you don't like and sucks, who is to blame? My site only accepts either Paypal or google checkout. no way around it
|
|
|
Post by mainepeace on Sept 29, 2012 14:14:51 GMT -5
This thread is getting a bit off topic.
It was about the customer who is trying to squeeze me out of another $500+ after he already has my product.
If he never received the refund I sent him 3 months ago he should take it up with his bank. I have indisputable proof that I sent him the refund. Case closed.
All too often I hear about people saying they need to borrow something from someone. What comes up is the suggestion to go to Best Buy or Walmart or wherever and buy a new one, use it, and return it for a full refund. While that may be "legal" in the strict sense of the law, to me it is very immoral. Buying something with the intent to return it should be illegal but it isn't.
My point is that it takes a very similar mindset to submit a false claim of credit card abuse 2 1/2 months after it supposedly occurred when the window is 90 days. All this AFTER many phone calls and emails back and forth with the customer about the product, our return policies, and confirmation that the product was received as well as the refund, and an email THANKING me for the customer service above and beyond.
The customer found a few parts of the dozens in the extensive kit didn't fit his non-standard scooter. I replied we don't accept returns, ESPECIALLY after it has been installed or attempted. He said it was no problem and that he'd just sell the non-fitting parts locally. This to me just SCREAMS of fraud on his part trying to get something for nothing.
On another note, I did get a provisional credit for the other credit card fraud on our corporate credit card. We did get a great outpouring of support from Scootdawg members since this has happened. I'm closing our rental/repair shop for the season and am happy to report that all employees got paid in full (except me).
Greg
|
|
|
Post by Scooter Elements on Sept 29, 2012 14:46:35 GMT -5
hopefully you get that money back. I am glad tho that you were able to pay your employees.
|
|
|
Post by macktheknife on Sept 29, 2012 19:45:33 GMT -5
I hope you also come out with the credit card company too and also agree with the thing about taking things back to Walmart isn't right either but rest assured all of the Walmart employees will get paid and I'm also glad to see that your employees got paid too and are happy campers.
Also I think the thread isn't off subject IMO because a lot of points come out from both sides and what I see is again no matter what form of payment you use someone is going to try to not do the right thing and people get burned on both sides of the fence and it isn't right no matter which one it is.
|
|
|
Post by mainepeace on Oct 7, 2012 19:01:30 GMT -5
Latest update.
Chargeback was reversed and I got my money back. Of course, in true credit card fashion they just deposited the money (retroactively dated) to the third but it didn't show up until yesterday. And of course I have not received any notification from the credit card company yet.
So good prevailed after all. Bad customer got what he was due, basically nothing.
Greg
|
|
|
Post by inuyasha on Oct 7, 2012 19:08:31 GMT -5
Latest update. Chargeback was reversed and I got my money back. Of course, in true credit card fashion they just deposited the money (retroactively dated) to the third but it didn't show up until yesterday. And of course I have not received any notification from the credit card company yet. So good prevailed after all. Bad customer got what he was due, basically nothing. Greg Hi Greg Glad it all worked out in the end. Take care and ride safely dear friend Yours Hank
|
|
|
Post by rapidjim on Oct 8, 2012 11:40:45 GMT -5
Good for you Greg!
Jim
|
|
|
Post by hardd1 on Oct 8, 2012 14:18:31 GMT -5
great news!!
|
|
|
Post by naseqp on Oct 20, 2012 12:22:39 GMT -5
We've been in the outdoor power business since 1995 and only one chargeback on a repair that was authorized by the customer who then went on to file it without any further communication to say he was disatisfied. Since our workorder stated the problem with the chainsaw and listed repairs and parts.....the customer "lost" his claim. Took about a month and way more time than it was worth. Guess thats what these fools count on.
Also,we take "Paypal" since before eBay bought them and also use them on our website (non-scooter right now). No problems on either so far.
We did take an $1,800 check from a guy from Georgia couple years ago, who turns out was a very slick check artist, warrant is out on him now and I'm waiting for the day he comes back to Florida.
I can understand your anger and frustration though. Is there anyway he was filing on the duplication? Not taking his side but, have you communicated at all? If he's clearly screwing you over...I would't hesitate to publicize and try to get him banned from the boards.
Its sad but when you open a business....you become a "target" for these yo-yo's. Karma has a way of squaring things up though.
|
|