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Post by carasdad on Aug 31, 2012 23:03:34 GMT -5
I want to know why you would buy an expensive scoot? For the cost of a Chinese made Kymco...SYM or Vespa.(made from Chinese parts)...I bought 4 Chinese scoots for the family( I already had one so that makes 5)..so we can go on family rides...outings..cruise the lake sides around us....and have fun. paying a dealership $75 per hour just to change a spark plug...belt...or oil change is ludicrous. We do it for free. All it takes is a $30 Stanley tool kit...a $5.00 shoplight and hand degreaser....to keep 'cheap' Chinese scoots running. With the help of the forum here...any problem you have can be fixed...they even explain it and show diagrams and links to 'step by step' guides with pictures and videos. The only problems we have had in 3 years...are the batteries after a long cold Michigan winter...1 broken belt and 2 CDI's (which are just 'plug and play' in that even a 5 yo could do it. Most folks run into problems..and post them here...when they try to 'super mod' the scooter into a NASCAR contender....with lots of high performance parts...seeking 60+ mph from a tiny engine. I have a repair/parts shop...and the most problems I see when folks bring them in...is that they take them apart..to see how it works and can't get it back together and running. They do the same thing with Honda's...Kymco...Sym...Buddy..Vespa etc...that they bring in. I like my scoots...I think tinkering with them and doing your own work shows pride...teaches you things....and is also therapeutic... But that is just me I guess...
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Post by larrym on Aug 31, 2012 23:25:04 GMT -5
I like spending time on the road riding , not in my garage tinkering , but thats just me
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Post by SylvreKat on Aug 31, 2012 23:55:35 GMT -5
My Harley friend told me to. He said one day Chinese-made will be the same quality as anything else, but it's not there yet. And since I possess zero mechanical skills whatsoever I needed a scooter that didn't pretty much require the owner to tinker on it.
'dad, you find pride in doing your own work on your own scooters. Me, I find pride in helping a customer get what they wanted, in mastering that difficult piano solo, in donating a painting that got a $130 bid for the Humane Society. You find pride in using your talents and skills and interests well, not in the actual thing itself.
>'Kat
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Post by petrol42 on Sept 1, 2012 0:05:04 GMT -5
I'd eventually want to buy a premium scooter when I could afford it.
I like my Chinese scoot but it sucks when I don't feel comfortable going on long rides without carrying tools, an extra belt and an impact wrench. I want to carry a can of Tire Sealant but those tools I carry occupy the whole underseat storage area and there isn't room for the Sealant.
I'd also like a reliable liquid cooling system so I could take extended rides on a hot day without fearing that something bad is going to happen to my motor and the premium scoots are the only ones with this.
And some modern amenities would be nice such as Fuel Injection and a 12 volt accessory socket.
Buying a cheap chinese scooter is the same situation as buying a cheap car. You buy a cheap car because that's all you could afford at the time and unless you're one of those people who are content with living a bare minimum lifestyle, then a nicer car is the way to go. You know, nicer cars have more amenities such as heated seats, Sirius/XM radio, GPS, the list goes on.
carasdad, you can't knock people for wanting nice things. If I weren't so poor, I'd have a bunch of nice things around me.
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Post by spandi on Sept 1, 2012 0:35:18 GMT -5
Touche, CD!
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Post by skuttadawg on Sept 1, 2012 0:38:50 GMT -5
Well I had a Honda Spree and only replaced the front forks since it was bought wrecked and replaced the tires . I never once had a single issue with 12,000 miles on it . The previous owner had it hot rodded and it smoke my Honda Elie by far . Premium brands are made with better quality of parts but parts cost so much more than the China ones . Its always better to just gas and service a scooter than have to do repairs like so many lemons out there . I had a TaoTao man it was a POS . I now have a CFmoto Echarm as I decided to spend a lil extra upfront to get a better scooter than have to buy parts to make it reliable . I also have a Jonway Magnum and Rock Thunder and they really good despite having read where some have had problems with their Jonways . If you do not have tools or knowledge then its better to get a Kymco etc . Working on scooters is not that hard once you learn theory and get some wrench time in . I have been wrenching since I was 9 as my oldest brother had hot rod cars like Chevelles and Corvettes and he gave me the bug . I had almost 30 diff moped , scooter and motorcycles before I was 20 and did my own work . I suggest getting the Haynes Chinese Scooter repair manual to have useful info to help you eshop.mainelyscooters.com/product-category/cat-accessories/cat-books/ its the red one . I bought the Echarm to be a daily driver and with just over 10,000 miles I only adjusted the valves once and changed the oil every 1,000 miles and never had to push it . I bought the 2t 49CC Magnum to be my big boy toy and play around with , but love it so much I prefer to drive it around unless I need to go far or on fast highways . China metal is way too soft and I have replaced some of the bolts with better ones but wondered if ARPs would damage the threads . I would replace the fuel and vacuum lines with automotive fuel line from any auto part store . Some have a cheap belt so replace with a Kevlar Gates or Bando brand belt . Use a NGK iridium or standard as its way better than the Torch brand some come with . I love how my Echarm was only 1,600 where a Honda 150 had a 4,500 MSRP a limited 1 year warranty and rear drum brakes , where the Echarm has unlimited mile 2 year full warranty even all electronics , discs F&R , large 16 wheels . 4,500 thats a car or street bike price or at least a 500cc scooter price range . I have small metric socket sets and multi tools in all of my scooters since the tools kits are junk . Harbor Freight has many decent tools for cheap and many of us love to shop there . Tools you almost never need its ok to go cheap , but if you use tools to make a living I prefer Craftsmans . You can NEVER have too many tools I always try to get new stuff when I can . Big Lots and Dollar Tree you can find some tools that are not too bad but the super cheap is not as good as higher priced stuff . I also like Lowes Kobalt brand of tools since they are blue like my scooters . The PDI , break in and preventive maintenance will have a huge factor on how it performs and will last . If you do not abuse the scooters you should get lots of enjoyment riding like I do on mine . I found that a magnetic bowl is awesome to put bolts in screws in to prevent " Where did it go " or a strip of duct tape with sticky side up you can prevent screws from rolling away . A magnetic pick up tool is handy too . I really like the Western Safety mechanic gloves at HF , ratcheting box end wrenches and always love to get multitools . Many here like to use an electric impact wrench for the variator and clutch nut removal . A band wrench comes in handy for those too . Its also to see what kind of light buls your use and go ahead and buy some to have for later use when needed . My rear tail light went out , and uses an 1157 like many cars do , but I used an 1157 LED instead since they last forever and use less power . I had a tail light go out on a moped and I did not know it and a car almost hit me from behind . I could see and smell the tire smoke , it was skeery ( yes I know its spelled wrong but I like slang at times ) . Auto parts stores sell oil catching pans to allow the old engine to be captured in to avoid a mess . Any oil change shop by law has to accept your used oil after all the sell it to be refined into machine oil . A small LED flashlight is another item to have along with a rag and tape . When you do not have it , you will surely need it sometime and be glad you were prepared
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Post by spandi on Sept 1, 2012 0:53:50 GMT -5
Skuttadawg, rather than a led flashlight get an led headband light, that way you leave both hands free when you need them the most. (got 3 for something like $15 a The Home Despot)
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Post by carasdad on Sept 1, 2012 7:17:52 GMT -5
Skuttadawg, rather than a led flashlight get an led headband light, that way you leave both hands free when you need them the most. (got 3 for something like $15 a The Home Despot) spandi...Got one of the headband lights...indispensable! Also have a box one with 24 LED's and magnet on the back and hook on top....about the size of a pack of smokes. Love it. Also a telescoping magnet is great for when a fastener falls inside the engine(ever notice they do that when ya got 1/2 an acre yard for them to fall in..yet they fall in the engine instead?) skuttadawg....same here as for wrenching since about age 8 or so. We were very poor hog farmers and could not afford to pay a person to fix any of our motors..gas or electric for tractors and grain elevators..bulldozer..or dump bed truck. We welded our own plow bottoms on and anything else that need welding. Rebuilt our car and pickup truck engines and trannnies. I was always dirty and greasy from that stuff...irritated me to see the neighbors have a repair man do their stuff. Once I was 18 and in the Military..it dawned on me..that I had learned a valuable skill...whereas others in my unit did not. I rebuilt the engine on my Mustang 5.0 HO..put in a t-6 tranny and 3.11 rear gears...as they stood there in awe...cause they just paid a shop big money to have a tie rod replaced and other simple things... THEN...it hit me...I was given an opportunity they never had. All that grumbling about wrenching...had actually taught me something.. Also...probably similar to you..I try to avoid Harbor Freight..cause I go in for a pack of Zip ties...and come out with a shopping cart filled with kewl unique tools( like my set of Crow Foot sockets..perfect for hard to reach places on scoots) and stuff to tinker with. Bottom line...love my Chinese scoots. Even if I was rich...vice living off my retired Military pension as I do...I would stick with my 'cheap' scoots. Cause farm living taught me one valuable thing...material stuff does not make a man.... Who he is and what he is does....
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Post by derbi on Sept 1, 2012 8:13:46 GMT -5
I bought a Honda PCX as ive owned many hondas in the past. My other bike is a Honda Shadow. I just like and trust the brand.
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Post by spandi on Sept 1, 2012 8:51:40 GMT -5
Well CD with all that equipment, as Hank Sr. said: "I saw the Light" and with all your farm experience, as Hank Jr. said: "A Country Boy can Survive"
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Post by larry001964 on Sept 1, 2012 9:27:25 GMT -5
I like spending time on the road riding , not in my garage tinkering , but thats just me Hummm really? I guess the 10,000 i have on Fawkes were all in a garage. Yes he was rebuilt once, using parts from tiawan, and yes he is in the expermental catorgory, so some bugs are to be expected. But 10,000 is 10,000, and 99 % of the time he always brought me home, the few times he didnt were because of the expermental nature of the stroker, or me being to stupid to look at the gas gauge.
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Post by WarrenS on Sept 1, 2012 10:05:42 GMT -5
I wasn't aware of them when I bought the Morphous. After I learned of them I came here and decided I was better off with what I had. When I bought the electric knowing it was Chinese I kept my fingers crossed and hoped for the best. Being electric meant it had no CVT, carburetor, spark plugs and stuff like that. I hoped that more attention was paid to the electrical system than the normal Chinese scooter. So far, so good.
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Post by yoshidawg on Sept 1, 2012 10:07:49 GMT -5
I've got both kinds...86 Honda Aero 50... And 2004 TNG ls49. While I like the Honda more than the TNG I spend the same amount of time and money on both. Never had anything break on the TNG so far, but the front springs in the shock tubes are worn out. Both rides got new tires this summer 200$. The Honda's torque spring wore out last month.29$, and I dropped it whille checking the front tire pressure 15$ new left side brake lever. Replaced both front blinker lenses 27$ and broke both of them within two weeks! Glue is a wonderful thing! What's cool about Chinese scoots is the interchangeable parts and the cost and availability of such parts. I have 9800 miles on the Honda. The Chinometer on my TNG stopped at 2170 kilometers so it's a mystery how many miles is on it, but it would probably be off by 20-30% anyway. The time and money I've spent on the TNG was strictly upgrades When I first brought it home 25mph was tops! now I'm cruising 35, 40 top out. Wow that was a hell of a ramble I just woke up!!!
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Post by massscoot on Sept 1, 2012 11:02:18 GMT -5
Carasdad: I must admit your thread here is a complete response to my "I want to know why you buy a Chinese Scoot" I'll bite. A couple of things I would like to clear-up right from the get-go, is Taiwan is NOT China! Taiwan has been manufacuring quality products when the Chinese were still using an OX to bring their rice to market (as they still do in many cases today) Also...Education. The Taiwanese are far more educated (@ this point) then their Chinese counterparts as a whole. Please remember that China was really a unproductive society 25 years ago. Are they getting better? Yes...They are, just look @ Puma scooters (which I think are the best China has to offer @ the moment. And they will continue too be. But what happens when they do they do become "that good" You'll see the price of a Chinese scooter rise in price BIGTIME! Then it will be Vietnam turn as the low-prices Chinese scoot.
Also...Many parts for my Kymco are made in China, but not all by a country mile. Still many parts are made in Taiwan. Also....There are cheap parts made in China (i.e. most Chinese scoots) & there are parts made in China under SYM, PGO, Kymco, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki etc. specifications (Big Difference) my friend! They do not get "cheap" becuse these manufacturers simply won't stand for it!
Bottom line is if you had the money....Why not purchase a scoot that you is damn-near the best of the best? I would & I do! I'm simply too busy to worry if my scoot is going to breakdown on a 50-70 mile joyride! Also...Thats what a scoot is for me, a joyride, nothing more!
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Post by jwalz1 on Sept 1, 2012 11:18:52 GMT -5
Quality? Horespower, longevity. Better looking. Better performing. Safer. (seriously, the amount of lighting coming off the front end of a Downtown gets noticed) My real toy is a sports car that I put a supercharger kit into a couple years ago, and when you do that it needs tinkering occasionally. It has downtime sorting out small issues. It gets on my nerves, and I did not want to deal with that in another vehicle. I wanted a two wheeled Toyota reliability wise.
I also wanted some thrills when riding. I see $2300 Chinese fuel injected scooters claiming 18 horsepower. I paid $4400 for 29. The Kymco is not a crotch rocket, but will do over 90 with me on it, and I don't worry about something coming loose if I am doing 80. I read a lot of "It loses power in the hills" . I live on top of a very steep river bluff, and if I give it throttle on the hills, it pulls very well. The one Reflex clone I rode a couple weeks ago when I let a guy try mine was not close to the acceleration. Most people don't care. I did.
I have mechanical ability and tons of tools, but I don't WANT to be fixing anything, I want to just ride. I am sure there are plenty of people who have ridden many safe miles on a Chinese scoot, but go into the 250 section and read the "I wiped out because my valve stem blew out", "Look at my bad motor mount" "My scoot is down again", and then look at the threads about a Sym Citicom and how great everybody thinks it is.
When a person says when you get your Chinese scoot, replace this, replace that, swap out the valve stems, carry an extra CDI, the "ABS" bleed valve is dangerous, get rid of the coolant, change the brake fluid, etc etc, and then says "the quality is just as good" is kidding themselves. Yes it may be a good value, and can be a great scoot in the right hands, but it is not the same quality.
I am not looking down on the Chinese scoots, but there is no denying the extra money buys more quality. It is not a question of being a baller, I just did not want to regret a purchase that had lots of potential problems built in and most importantly did not want any of those problems to potentially impact my personal safety at seventy miles an hour.
I think sometimes people think those that paid extra for a scooter are trying to rub it in or something and act like millionaires. We are talking about scooters here, not Mercedes. But from the limited number of scooters I have seen, my opinion is the extra money is worth it. The more broken in my Kymco gets the more it impresses the crap out of me.
I have run into more and more people that have Chinese scoots and love them, but when they go for a ride on mine, they generally say "Holy crap, that is a nice machine!" They are not going out and buying one, because for their use, the money they spent and the scooter they have meets their wants and needs, and they are happy. And there are still machines better than mine I'd like to have, like a Tmax. A Chinese 150 for under $1000 is one hell of a fun-for-your-money home run. But it won't do what I want it to do.
I rave about the scooter because it is really a nice machine, and if someone who really likes scooters and wants to spend the money, I want to recommend a great product. For someone that wants a good scooter and buys Chinese because the are a good value, I don't think they are crazy, I shopped them myself. But for people who think you are crazy for spending extra on a Kymco, Honda, Sym, Yamaha, etc, it just aint so. I recently slapped in a set of Dr Pulley sliders and the machine now does 60 in about seven and a half seconds. No, it is no Busa, but it is fun. And no Chinese scoot will do that.
I really like the Reflex clones and think for the money they are awesome, but if someone gave me the choice, money as no object, which would you rather have, I'd take the Kymco every time. So now when it comes to putting my hard earned money into something, I have to go with the one that is my personal obvious choice, even if that means it puts a bigger dent in my checkbook. It does not make me Warren Buffet, its a freaking scooter.
I buy expensive shirts for work, but wear cheap dress shoes. I won't buy a watch that costs over $30 at Target. People spend the extra on things they value, and for me it was a scooter.
I did not LIKE the fact that it cost more, I put up with it. If I add a scooter it will be a used Tmax, Silverwing, or PCX 150 or Sym. There are plenty of more expensive scooters that are far better than mine, I just personally did not value them enough to spend more than I did.
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Post by larrym on Sept 1, 2012 12:16:28 GMT -5
I like spending time on the road riding , not in my garage tinkering , but thats just me Hummm really? I guess the 10,000 i have on Fawkes were all in a garage. Yes he was rebuilt once, using parts from tiawan, and yes he is in the expermental catorgory, so some bugs are to be expected. But 10,000 is 10,000, and 99 % of the time he always brought me home, the few times he didnt were because of the expermental nature of the stroker, or me being to stupid to look at the gas gauge. so all those parts u list just put themselves in , i just wanna gas and go
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Post by larry001964 on Sept 1, 2012 14:53:38 GMT -5
Hummm really? I guess the 10,000 i have on Fawkes were all in a garage. Yes he was rebuilt once, using parts from tiawan, and yes he is in the expermental catorgory, so some bugs are to be expected. But 10,000 is 10,000, and 99 % of the time he always brought me home, the few times he didnt were because of the expermental nature of the stroker, or me being to stupid to look at the gas gauge. so all those parts u list just put themselves in , i just wanna gas and go Of course i put the parts in, im the cause of the failure. I pushed that machine well beyond its design limits. I knew i was doing it at the time. But i needed a job, and fawkes did deliver. I dont blame the failure on the machine, i knew it was a risk.
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Post by carasdad on Sept 1, 2012 15:26:49 GMT -5
Carasdad: I must admit your thread here is a complete response to my "I want to know why you buy a Chinese Scoot" I'll bite. A couple of things I would like to clear-up right from the get-go, is Taiwan is NOT China! Taiwan has been manufacuring quality products when the Chinese were still using an OX to bring their rice to market (as they still do in many cases today) Also...Education. The Taiwanese are far more educated (@ this point) then their Chinese counterparts as a whole. Please remember that China was really a unproductive society 25 years ago. Are they getting better? Yes...They are, just look @ Puma scooters (which I think are the best China has to offer @ the moment. And they will continue too be. But what happens when they do they do become "that good" You'll see the price of a Chinese scooter rise in price BIGTIME! Then it will be Vietnam turn as the low-prices Chinese scoot. Also...Many parts for my Kymco are made in China, but not all by a country mile. Still many parts are made in Taiwan. Also....There are cheap parts made in China (i.e. most Chinese scoots) & there are parts made in China under SYM, PGO, Kymco, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki etc. specifications (Big Difference) my friend! They do not get "cheap" becuse these manufacturers simply won't stand for it! Bottom line is if you had the money....Why not purchase a scoot that you is damn-near the best of the best? I would & I do! I'm simply too busy to worry if my scoot is going to breakdown on a 50-70 mile joyride! Also...Thats what a scoot is for me, a joyride, nothing more! Agreed...Taiwan is not China...it ROC....Republic of China..which makes it part of China.. Countries that are 'Republics' of another larger country..have a Governing body...but it must meet the approval of the country it belongs to. Just as the U.S. has countries that are Republics of us. Many which are in the Pacific islands and they are be sanctioned by us...and told which countries they may trade with and have relations with. In essence we own and Govern them... Now explain to me..why it is called 'Taiwan, Republic of China' if they are not part of China..why do they include China in their name?
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Post by massscoot on Sept 1, 2012 15:59:18 GMT -5
Carasdad: I must admit your thread here is a complete response to my "I want to know why you buy a Chinese Scoot" I'll bite. A couple of things I would like to clear-up right from the get-go, is Taiwan is NOT China! Taiwan has been manufacuring quality products when the Chinese were still using an OX to bring their rice to market (as they still do in many cases today) Also...Education. The Taiwanese are far more educated (@ this point) then their Chinese counterparts as a whole. Please remember that China was really a unproductive society 25 years ago. Are they getting better? Yes...They are, just look @ Puma scooters (which I think are the best China has to offer @ the moment. And they will continue too be. But what happens when they do they do become "that good" You'll see the price of a Chinese scooter rise in price BIGTIME! Then it will be Vietnam turn as the low-prices Chinese scoot. Also...Many parts for my Kymco are made in China, but not all by a country mile. Still many parts are made in Taiwan. Also....There are cheap parts made in China (i.e. most Chinese scoots) & there are parts made in China under SYM, PGO, Kymco, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki etc. specifications (Big Difference) my friend! They do not get "cheap" becuse these manufacturers simply won't stand for it! Bottom line is if you had the money....Why not purchase a scoot that you is damn-near the best of the best? I would & I do! I'm simply too busy to worry if my scoot is going to breakdown on a 50-70 mile joyride! Also...Thats what a scoot is for me, a joyride, nothing more! Agreed...Taiwan is not China...it ROC....Republic of China..which makes it part of China.. Countries that are 'Republics' of another larger country..have a Governing body...but it must meet the approval of the country it belongs to. Just as the U.S. has countries that are Republics of us. Many which are in the Pacific islands and they are be sanctioned by us...and told which countries they may trade with and have relations with. In essence we own and Govern them... Now explain to me..why it is called 'Taiwan, Republic of China' if they are not part of China..why do they include China in their name? Carasdad: I "had" some repsect for you because you & I are ex-military. But...My god man, don't you understand your history? Please checkout this Wikipedia link here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaiwanTaiwan governs itself! ROC has NOTHING to do with the "People's Republic of China" See line two & now you should be a bit embarrassed with your comment! The USA has been "pumping-in" techonolgy for the past 20+ years in Taiwan, just to keep Mainland China on their toes my friend! China "claims" it's their terriory, but Chiang-Kai-shek (again history...They were called Chinese Nationalists) had something to say abou that! Ok...Now that I cleared that up for you, are you going to respond & say that "you are completley wrong about Taiwan?" Dude...You are, so just do the right thing & post it here! Take your medicine like a man!
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Post by derbi on Sept 1, 2012 16:19:37 GMT -5
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Post by massscoot on Sept 1, 2012 16:26:19 GMT -5
Pony-Up Carasdad....Or are you not going to not respond to this thread?
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Post by carasdad on Sept 1, 2012 16:27:04 GMT -5
Agreed...Taiwan is not China...it ROC....Republic of China..which makes it part of China.. Countries that are 'Republics' of another larger country..have a Governing body...but it must meet the approval of the country it belongs to. Just as the U.S. has countries that are Republics of us. Many which are in the Pacific islands and they are be sanctioned by us...and told which countries they may trade with and have relations with. In essence we own and Govern them... Now explain to me..why it is called 'Taiwan, Republic of China' if they are not part of China..why do they include China in their name? Carasdad: I "had" some repsect for you because you & I are ex-military. But...My god man, don't you understand your history? Please checkout this Wikipedia link here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaiwanTaiwan governs itself! ROC has NOTHING to do with the "People's Republic of China" See line two & now you should be a bit embarrassed with your comment! The USA has been "pumping-in" techonolgy for the past 20+ years in Taiwan, just to keep Mainland China on their toes my friend! China "claims" it's their terriory, but Chiang-Kai-shek (again history...They were called Chinese Nationalists) had something to say abou that! Ok...Now that I cleared that up for you, are you going to respond & say that "you are completley wrong about Taiwan?" Dude...You are, so just do the right thing & post it here! Take your medicine like a man! Ok read it...your wikipedia link...and line 2 says.. Taiwan (Listeni/ˌtaɪˈwɑːn/ TY-WAHN; Chinese: 臺灣 or 台灣; pinyin: Táiwān; see below), officially the Republic of China (ROC; Chinese: 中華民國; pinyin: Zhōnghuá Mínguó), is a state in East Asia. Originally based in mainland China, the Republic of China now governs the island of Taiwan (formerly known as Formosa), which makes up over 99% of its current territory,[f] as well as Penghu, Kinmen, Matsu, and other minor islands. The rest of the article goes into more detail..and I did not even bother to paste it here. Therefore I cannot admit I was wrong as you requested I do. Saying you used to have respect for me and now don't..well it is your choice...bothers me none. You say I am wrong then send me the link above which shows that China claims them and Governs them. Also if we are sending them so much money and technology...why was it at the end of Fiscal year 2011...we were in debt to China 14.1 Billion dollars?...it is even more now. I must ask this question.....what does any and all of the above have to do with scoots..and why we choose what we chose? Answer is none. However the fact that you MUST be right..is very apparent. No longer going to reply any posts you make on this..or in the forum. Best wishes...scoot safely...and make today great... Semper Fidelis...
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Post by massscoot on Sept 1, 2012 17:17:15 GMT -5
Carasdad: I "had" some repsect for you because you & I are ex-military. But...My god man, don't you understand your history? Please checkout this Wikipedia link here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaiwanTaiwan governs itself! ROC has NOTHING to do with the "People's Republic of China" See line two & now you should be a bit embarrassed with your comment! The USA has been "pumping-in" techonolgy for the past 20+ years in Taiwan, just to keep Mainland China on their toes my friend! China "claims" it's their terriory, but Chiang-Kai-shek (again history...They were called Chinese Nationalists) had something to say abou that! Ok...Now that I cleared that up for you, are you going to respond & say that "you are completley wrong about Taiwan?" Dude...You are, so just do the right thing & post it here! Take your medicine like a man! Ok read it...your wikipedia link...and line 2 says.. Taiwan (Listeni/ˌtaɪˈwɑːn/ TY-WAHN; Chinese: 臺灣 or 台灣; pinyin: Táiwān; see below), officially the Republic of China (ROC; Chinese: 中華民國; pinyin: Zhōnghuá Mínguó), is a state in East Asia. Originally based in mainland China, the Republic of China now governs the island of Taiwan (formerly known as Formosa), which makes up over 99% of its current territory,[f] as well as Penghu, Kinmen, Matsu, and other minor islands. The rest of the article goes into more detail..and I did not even bother to paste it here. Therefore I cannot admit I was wrong as you requested I do. Saying you used to have respect for me and now don't..well it is your choice...bothers me none. You say I am wrong then send me the link above which shows that China claims them and Governs them. Also if we are sending them so much money and technology...why was it at the end of Fiscal year 2011...we were in debt to China 14.1 Billion dollars?...it is even more now. I must ask this question.....what does any and all of the above have to do with scoots..and why we choose what we chose? Answer is none. However the fact that you MUST be right..is very apparent. No longer going to reply any posts you make on this..or in the forum. Best wishes...scoot safely...and make today great... Semper Fidelis...[/quot Carasdad: I have a feeling when I posted my last thread, you wouldn't come-clean. I sensed it...It's in your nature. You didn't read the link in full did you? If you really knew your history...You wouldn't never have posted your nonsense about Mainland China having authority over Taiwan. Yes..."The People's Republic of China" (that makes your inexpensive scoots) has ZERO authority over Taiwan, It has nothing to do with our deficient with others countries (including China) Don't try & give me a "14+ Trillion dollar" smoke-screen! Bottom line.....You threw-out manufacturing nonsense & you didn't have clue! You thought you did...but you simply got "busted" You were not "man" enough to accept it! "No longer going to reply on this thread you say" I know why now! You simply ae not man enough to admit your mistake! I'm so glad You were not in "my" platoon!
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Post by larrym on Sept 1, 2012 19:09:51 GMT -5
Bottom line is the scoots produced by Taiwanese companies are way better built then the ones thrown together by Chinese companies .
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Post by carasdad on Sept 1, 2012 19:29:41 GMT -5
I am amused by angry trolls folks....sorry. Most all of you know a 14.1 billion dollar deficit owed to China was not a smoke screen. It is common knowledge and freely disclosed by our Government. China is angry with us and I do not blame them. Also we could have employed many people...and built awesome American made scoots and products with that money. For a typed post in a forum...to anger a person so badly they attack anothers character certainly speaks volumes of themselves. Even mainepeace was given rude remarks..and Greg does not have a mean bone in his body. But such is life...not everyone sees eye to eye..nor are we all compatible....which makes us unique. We may think what we want...say what we want....but keep in mind.....every second we waste judging others...is a second where we are truly judged ourselves....
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Post by larry001964 on Sept 1, 2012 19:44:16 GMT -5
Bottom line is the scoots produced by Taiwanese companies are way better built then the ones thrown together by Chinese companies . I just get tired of the Chinese bashing, Fawkes was very reliable till i pushed him as hard as i did, his failure was because of me and I admit it. But right up until his failure he was a very reliable machine. When you push any machine beyond it's design limits your asking for trouble.. Much of the problems i see people have is due to lack of maintenance or an incomplete PDI.. When you buy and expensive scoot the PDI is done by the dealer, It's referred to as "Dealer Prep". Often people buy these Chinese scooters without the PDI being done, this makes them cheaper. But also relies on the customer knowing what they are to doing to some degree.. Also often I have seen customers that bought these scooter try and cheat on the PDI, Again this is a recipe for disaster, the scooter gets the blame because the owner tried to save a few dollars. Or didn't think the valves should be adjusted, or didn't do the valves because it was something they were not comfortable in doing... Then the problems arise and the scooter gets the blame.. I don't care what machine it is, if it's not given proper setup, routine maintenance, or if you push a machine beyond it's design limits your going to have problems..
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Post by carasdad on Sept 1, 2012 20:22:34 GMT -5
Bottom line is the scoots produced by Taiwanese companies are way better built then the ones thrown together by Chinese companies . I just get tired of the Chinese bashing, Fawkes was very reliable till i pushed him as hard as i did, his failure was because of me and I admit it. But right up until his failure he was a very reliable machine. When you push any machine beyond it's design limits your asking for trouble.. Much of the problems i see people have is due to lack of maintenance or an incomplete PDI.. When you buy and expensive scoot the PDI is done by the dealer, It's referred to as "Dealer Prep". Often people buy these Chinese scooters without the PDI being done, this makes them cheaper. But also relies on the customer knowing what they are to doing to some degree.. Also often I have seen customers that bought these scooter try and cheat on the PDI, Again this is a recipe for disaster, the scooter gets the blame because the owner tried to save a few dollars. Or didn't think the valves should be adjusted, or didn't do the valves because it was something they were not comfortable in doing... Then the problems arise and the scooter gets the blame.. I don't care what machine it is, if it's not given proper setup, routine maintenance, or if you push a machine beyond it's design limits your going to have problems.. AGREED 100%...our personal PDI..is called 'Dealer Prep'....many take delivery and never do it!! As a teen I worked at Wilson's Harley Davidson in Grand Rapids Michigan...I worked parts dept...but also did uncrate and setup....where I had to write down any discrepancies and give them to the mechanics to double check and fix.Even those 'Manly Mens' bikes came with problems. larry001964....look on the bright side...you now have beast of a scoot...that many of us envy...I would give my first born to test ride it..
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Post by pearlygates on Sept 1, 2012 20:28:44 GMT -5
Bottom line...love my Chinese scoots. Even if I was rich...vice living off my retired Military pension as I do...I would stick with my 'cheap' scoots. Cause farm living taught me one valuable thing...material stuff does not make a man.... Who he is and what he is does.... I'm with you here.. I am buying my second China scoot next spring!
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Post by quest4fire on Sept 2, 2012 6:42:25 GMT -5
All the scooters need to be tinkered with. Some will hurt your hands, some will break, some will present all kinds of aggravation. I have a fine old machine that is made to be worked on. The newer and cheaper the bike, it seems the more painful and annoying the experience can be. The cowl comes off and the parts are thoughtfully laid out. The metal is sound.
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Post by massscoot on Sept 2, 2012 8:35:30 GMT -5
I am amused by angry trolls folks....sorry. Most all of you know a 14.1 billion dollar deficit owed to China was not a smoke screen. It is common knowledge and freely disclosed by our Government. China is angry with us and I do not blame them. Also we could have employed many people...and built awesome American made scoots and products with that money. For a typed post in a forum...to anger a person so badly they attack anothers character certainly speaks volumes of themselves. Even mainepeace was given rude remarks..and Greg does not have a mean bone in his body. But such is life...not everyone sees eye to eye..nor are we all compatible....which makes us unique. We may think what we want...say what we want....but keep in mind.....every second we waste judging others...is a second where we are truly judged ourselves.... Well...This will be my last post as well. I notice that when I ask question(s), you reply to just one & even then, it's only half-way. You clearly don't have a handle on countries & their manufacuring history (Yeah...I'm talking about Taiwan) Also...I think you need a lesson in our country's borrowing of money. We wouldn't take borrowed money to produce a subsidy for producing American-made scooters? Come on that's just silly. Our 14+ "Trillion" dollar deficit (not billion), isn't completely based on money! Nor...is all of that owed to China. Plus...That had nothing to do with my claims that you should do the right thing & own-up to your insane & clearly without knowledge statement about Taiwan. You created a "smoke-screen" to bypass the question @ hand. I loved how you thought you knew what you were talking about in regards to "Republics" That was simply priceless! I had to laugh @ that one. Below is a copy & paste (from Wikipedia) of the word Republic: "Countries like China and Vietnam are meant to be governed for and by the people, but with no direct elections. The term People's Republic is used to differentiate themselves from the earlier republic of their countries before the people's revolution, like Republic of China and Republic of Korea"
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