just got expansionchamber for stock bike.hlp!!!!!

[spewya]

hi . i just got a 50cc expansion chamber pipe for my 2005 vento trition r4
,the guy i got it from said it is a tegnagas pipe.. i put it on just to see how it worked .. i took of down the street and when i got goung about 40mph it started to make a poping voice along with the noise of the motor running

i know i was running a little rich because when i took the pipe off the manifold/flange on the pipe was alitle wet

i was told i will need to lighten the roller weights in my variator to get my power band up

also i was told i need to upjet my carb ,,,but idk what size to go to

im asking for some advise

thanks

[h3nry]

If its ditch going from the original pipe the that one you are being restricted (not saying it is for sure a bad thing but....) if you upjet you will just be flooding it and wasting gas. Try going down about 3 jet sizes (If you have 85 go down to 82) then do a plug chop to make sure its closer

[OverReved]

Putting a tuned pipe on your bike limits power in a large range of operation on a 2 stroke for the most part. That crazy shape looks cool but it's not going to be cool till you start using what you put it on there for. The suggestion about lighter variator weights is a good one. The pipe will work best at higher RPM it is designed for and changing your weights to a lighter set will allow the engine to operate closer to the tune of the pipe as it accelerates.
The wetness inside the pipe could be from the bike it was previously installed on. You didn't indicate if it was completely brand new never installed or not. Read your plug and determine from there if a jetting would make any sense.

[spewya]

well it is a 50cc pipe ..that was used
i dont really understand how to read my plug and determine how to jet accordingly

[spewya]

also i put it on for a min to see how it was and at top speed it was kinda making a hollow spit pop noise secondary to the motor running

[OverReved]

For a basic plug check you'd just pull the plug from the bike and look at it. Black and sooty is rich, toilet bowl white is lean lean. You want a brown color ideally. To achieve the brown or tan color would involve modifications such as changing jets.
There are more in depth ways to check this, even for each particular fuel circuit in the bike, maybe someone will step up with a link you can follow or pop in and tell you a diagnosis of you bike based on noises.

[wile]

Jul 28, 2012 13:28:55 GMT -5 h3nry said:

If its ditch going from the original pipe the that one you are being restricted (not saying it is for sure a bad thing but....) if you upjet you will just be flooding it and wasting gas. Try going down about 3 jet sizes (If you have 85 go down to 82) then do a plug chop to make sure its closer

H3nry is right on,
If it is popping execelerating it is to RICH.
Wile

[spewya]

so by that noise it is running rich .. will i be able to fix that with the fuel air mixture screw or will i have to do like H3NRY said and down jet 3 sizes??

also does any one know my stock weight in my vari and what should i put in there
and i also plan to put yellow springs in my clutch (i believe they are 2000rpm)

[OverReved]

Installing 2000prm springs in the clutch will just delay the point where the bike catches gear from a stop light or stop sign when you are not moving by 2000 rpm (rev higher before it starts moving). This can make the bike difficult to handle in low speed driving accelerate clutch lining wear and increase heat at the clutch. Up to you to decide if you like that.
You would be on the right track with variator weights if you plan to put lighter ones there. I do not know the stock weight of your variator rollers, perhaps you can remove one and weigh it on a gram scale.
You can compensate for a rich condition but *only slightly* with an air/fuel mix screw adjustment. The type of adjustment H3nry is suggesting is better done with jetting changes.Turning the screw in would cause a leaner mixture but can cause the bike to not run right at idle. If this pipe is still on your bike then it makes sense to tune everything to it. I'd still pull the spark-plug to verify how the bike is running instead of doing so by ear.

[D-cat]

Check the damned plug!

I'm sorry, but assuming that popping and gas moisture means rich is a very dangerous call. Too lean will also cause misfire, unburnt gas entering the pipe, and popping/backfire. When you go with a free flow, odds are you lean out, not enrich. Testing by going even further lean is a good way to melt your engine. The worst that happens going rich is dealing with some carbon deposit. Always err rich.

8:1 very rich; typical idle.
12:1 Goal for mid throttle; most power efficient.
14.7:1 Stoichiometric ratio. Good for open throttle (most fuel efficient).
17:1 Too lean: most thermal efficient (meaning burns hottest, most efficient to melt your engine with).

Below 7:1 or higher than 18:1 the engine will typically sputter or miss (resulting in occasional backfire), or stall.
---
As for the pipe itself, yes, there is a narrow power band where the engine will get a turbo-like power boost (wiki has a nice animation how this works). You need to find what rpm you hit the pipe and tune your CVT (torque spring and weights) so you accelerate at this rpm.

[spewya]

i only put the pipe on for a quick test ride . i didnt want to keep it on for long untill i figure out all the precautions and stuff needed to go along with it .. how would i know fuel air ratio ..also how would i know when at what rpm my power band kicks in??

thanks

[gregw]

D-Cat is right on. When I installed my techigas (replacing my stock exhaust) I had to upjet +10 to get it right, then I had to lower my needle to get the mid throttle right. Too lean can cause pre-ignition (detonation/backfire), and pit (melt) your piston crown, or swell the piston and create scoring. I would put the pipe on, install a new plug, install a main jet +5 bigger, then ride it for 5 minutes at WOT, shut it off quick, then pull the plug. Cardboard brown is perfect, anything lighter is bad, anything darker isn't bad, but not perfect. Lighter rollars for sure (4 or 5 gram, or a mix of both). You probably have 7 gram now. Also, a stiffer torque spring will be needed to keep your motor in it's power band while accelerating and decelerating during variation (gear changes). Also, stiffer clutch springs is highly recommended (stiffest). Don't worry about wearing out your clutch. I've got over 3,000 miles and 45+ hours of run time, and no problems besides flat spots on the rollars (common). If you don't know where your jetting is, like D-Cat said, err on the side of richness... Good luck!

[spewya]

some people are saying that i need to up jet and some are saing to down jet .. im confused..
also i heard if i go to the stiffest clutch springs it will shread my belt

also what is torsion control

[gregw]

Jetting is confusing if you're unwilling to pull your spark plug and check it's burn color... Stiffest Clutch springs will not shred your belt. I have been using a standard non-kavlar belt for over 3000 miles with no problems.
Torsion "control" is the seperating of the twist action of your torque spring against your driven pulley (in back, where your torque spring is). It just allows, in part, a smoother and more predictable variation when encountering hills, decelerating while at WOT and downshifting. Without the torsion control (plastic bushing), the spring can grab slightly the pulley and influence it's spring's twist against the movement of the driven pulley. The CVT is a bit complicated if you're new to this, but well worth learning about if you're gonna start hopping it up. First learn how to make your motor run it's best, then worry about the transmission.

[kixome]

10 times please check the plug to know if you need to upjet or downjet . I am guaranteeing you need to upjet with a freer exhaust.

CHECK THE PLUG PLEASE.

[spewya]

Ok .. so should I go both to the stiffest center ,and grab springs? Or one stiffer than other
Also what will happen if I go to light on my roller weights

Does any body have a good link of were to get rollers and springs?

[kixome]

Just wondering: are you gonna check that plug?

[dude]

Aug 4, 2012 20:19:00 GMT -5 kixome said:

Just wondering: are you gonna check that plug?

check the plug

[gregw]

Aug 4, 2012 20:19:00 GMT -5 kixome said:

Just wondering: are you gonna check that plug?

Get the motor right, then worry about the tranny

[OverReved]

LOL @ everyone. I only mentioned it three times myself and it's never been acknowledged yet.

[spewya]

i was wanting to put it all on at once .. new plug with pipe, belt,rollers,springs ,but i need to know what to order

[OverReved]

Engine first.
When you get that working worry about the trans.

[spewya]

my bike has just over 1000 miles
when i first got the bike(had 500 miles) i could go solid 45-50 now i cant go much past 45 at wot it seems like the motor or my drive system is acting up it will feal like it is slightly disengaging then catching back up and ingauging again it will alternate inguaging and disengaging
the sound of the motor doesn't change but i can feal it.. as of rite now i have all of that off clutch belt and vary ..trieng to determine what the problem could be .. i found out that my rollers are 4gram .. im thinking that while i have it off i should just put a set of springs in it .. iknow you guys are saing motor that tranny but why take it al of twice if un needed

so can i really go wrong buying some springs putting it back together then putting the pipe on with a new plug to determine my jetting???

i thank you all for all the great help

[kixome]

You probably won't hurt it. but you should determine how it is running right now clean/rich/lean and get it dialed in there then you should adjust weights to make it pull better.

If you do this your chances of it rocking are a whole deal better.

[wile]

There is a BIG difference from POPPING SOUND and BACKFIRE. Popping is just that it is a POPPING SOUND backfire is just that sounds like a shotgun.

If it is Backfireing it is LEAN.
If it is POPPING as you accelerate is it RICH.
If it is POPPING as you De-accelerate is it LEAN
Wile

[spewya]

so if i want to make my clutch in gauge at the same time as my powerband kicks in how will i determine at what rpm my powerband kicks in ,, say it kicks in at 2000 rpm and my clutch has 3000rpm springs im not using all of the accelerating power
i just dont know how to determine my rpm to decide on what springs to get... or should i just go with the stiffest???

also how good is that mollasi Kevlar belt ?? does it stand up to the stiff clutch springs well ??
and how many miles do they last

[spewya]

[gregw]

Aug 6, 2012 20:23:28 GMT -5 spewya said:

my bike has just over 1000 miles
when i first got the bike(had 500 miles) i could go solid 45-50 now i cant go much past 45 at wot it seems like the motor or my drive system is acting up it will feal like it is slightly disengaging then catching back up and ingauging again it will alternate inguaging and disengaging
the sound of the motor doesn't change but i can feal it..

so can i really go wrong buying some springs putting it back together then putting the pipe on with a new plug to determine my jetting???

Your symptoms, explained here indicate lean-ness. The sounds of lean-ness (not to the extreme of seizure, or detonation) is like wheezing. The motor barely has enough fuel to fire and the subtle changes in terain, slope can make it wheeze/surge (starve for gas). If your motor is running rich, it will literally sound like it's drowning and not able to attain high rpm's.

Also, with stock rollar weights and a new pipe, it will not run well either because the motor isn't able to hit a high enough rpm(during variation because the rollar weights are too heavy and shifting at a lower rpm) to get the motor into it's new, highpower band. When I put on my technigas, I had to upjet the main, and lighten the rollars by 2 grams each.

Did you check the burn color yet?

[carasdad]

Jul 29, 2012 20:05:17 GMT -5 D-cat said:

Check the damned plug!

I'm sorry, but assuming that popping and gas moisture means rich is a very dangerous call. Too lean will also cause misfire, unburnt gas entering the pipe, and popping/backfire. When you go with a free flow, odds are you lean out, not enrich. Testing by going even further lean is a good way to melt your engine. The worst that happens going rich is dealing with some carbon deposit. Always err rich.

8:1 very rich; typical idle.
12:1 Goal for mid throttle; most power efficient.
14.7:1 Stoichiometric ratio. Good for open throttle (most fuel efficient).
17:1 Too lean: most thermal efficient (meaning burns hottest, most efficient to melt your engine with).

Below 7:1 or higher than 18:1 the engine will typically sputter or miss (resulting in occasional backfire), or stall.
---
As for the pipe itself, yes, there is a narrow power band where the engine will get a turbo-like power boost (wiki has a nice animation how this works). You need to find what rpm you hit the pipe and tune your CVT (torque spring and weights) so you accelerate at this rpm.

Agreed! A 2 stroke with a tuned pipe can be a beotch to get right...took me many tries. Also as you said the power band is narrow with a tuned pipe. With mine and all it's hyper crap on it...0-30 mph is like any other scoot..nothing impressive....once it hits 30 mph....30-51mph(GPS) is almost instantaneous!!! Like sitting on a missile.... This make it nearly as street-able as a Rail Dragster or Funny Car....i.e. Nice for long back roads....but a bear in city traffic. Did not know 14.7:1 was the Stoichiometric ratio...not even sure how a person could tune to that without a Dyno and exhaust gas 'Sniffer' as they call them in Virginia. I run on the rich side after soft seizing a brand new Hoca BBK 3 times...then hard seizing it the next day. All because I did not upjet with the tuned pipe....I went down instead....

[spewya]

my rollers are 4 grams each