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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 18, 2012 20:51:56 GMT -5
I just recently replaced my contra spring and 3 clutch springs. My 50cc 4 stroke GY6 scooter had almost 8000 miles on it and was having problems with hills and acceleration. I thought upgrading a little bit would help me out. So I went from 6.5g weights to 7g. I also installed a 1.5k contra spring and clutch springs. I was hearing a slight clinging noise after my electric starter would kicked back, after starting the scooter. Thought something was up, but didn't have time to look at it. Well I was right, my drive belt broke today  After removing the cover I also found my drive pulley fan fell off and was all melted. My question is, Was I wrong to put a harder contra spring and clutch springs in? Is this what caused my belt to break? I just don't want to purchase another belt and break it again. |
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Post by inkyben on Jul 18, 2012 20:57:55 GMT -5
did you clean everything and give it a new thin coat of grease after the install?
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Post by millsc on Jul 18, 2012 20:59:28 GMT -5
8000 miles for a china belt if thats what was on it you did good it needed replaced
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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 18, 2012 21:04:53 GMT -5
Nope. no grease. I read that you shouldn't put grease around the belt n that it could spin out with high rpm's and get on it.
The belt was just replaced a couple years ago. The new belt maybe had 2000 miles on it
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Post by inkyben on Jul 18, 2012 21:47:04 GMT -5
not the belt itself but the pulley, trying to see why your drive face fan melted. What brand was the new belt?
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Post by skuttadawg on Jul 18, 2012 22:14:35 GMT -5
From my research Bando Kevlar is the best belt to use
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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 19, 2012 9:56:43 GMT -5
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Post by skuttadawg on Jul 19, 2012 12:35:17 GMT -5
Yikes !! I do not know why the belts do not last long as my friend who has a Harley that is belt driven told me his is good for 20,000 miles but then its a HD not a scooter
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Post by inkyben on Jul 19, 2012 12:48:17 GMT -5
I wish I had enough creativity to switch from a belt to a chain driven cvt.
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Post by skuttadawg on Jul 19, 2012 12:50:15 GMT -5
Belt stretches where a chain will not . Its the expansion of the belt that makes it like having gears
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Post by inkyben on Jul 19, 2012 12:56:58 GMT -5
it never hurts to dream haha
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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 19, 2012 12:57:29 GMT -5
Well my question is did this happen because of the stiffer contra spring and clutch springs? When I purchased them I knew they weren't stock rating. I was told that stock is only 1k.
Also I'm guessing the fan was annihilated from the broken belt flopping around inside the cover.
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Post by inkyben on Jul 19, 2012 13:01:21 GMT -5
judging by the damage in each it almost seems like the fan came off first and thats what chopped your belt up. Are you using the stock variator and drive face?
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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 19, 2012 13:41:26 GMT -5
Yup. The variator is all stock, with the exception of heavier weights. 6.5 to 7g
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Post by viral on Jul 19, 2012 14:13:53 GMT -5
Based on the damage it looks to me like you installed something wrong, left something loose or overtightened, something like that. That kind of damage is definitely not normal and simply changing weights/springs wouldn't cause something like that.
On a side note, why did you move up in weights? You'll get better pull with lower weights.
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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 19, 2012 14:23:30 GMT -5
When re-assembling the variator and clutch assembly I used an impact and tightened them with a couple pulls. I did forget to mark where it before disassembling it so I wasn't really able to see where it should have been tightened back to.
I upgraded to a slightly heavier weight to get more top end out of my scooter. She was doing about 45. When I put the new contra and clutch springs in, I did notice I lost 5mph. The old variator weights also had numerous flat spots on them, not allowing them to roll out when I would take off.
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Post by viral on Jul 19, 2012 14:34:29 GMT -5
Any chance you thought you were removing a restriction washer and actually took off the piece the belt is supposed to ride on? The belt looks chewed up. This is a puzzling problem. I guess it's possible if the variator was installed incorrectly the belt could have ridden up too high and jumped off the pulley, never heard of that happening though. Beats me. I would just take it all apart and put it back together with a new belt and see what happens... Might want to wait and see if someone more experienced has any advice to offer though.
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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 19, 2012 15:18:28 GMT -5
I had looked for the restriction washer previously. My scoot never had one. I know what your talking about though, it's about 2-3" long and slides over the drive shaft after the variator is installed. Some sort of bushing. Everything was put back the way it came off.
I kinda want to agree with inkyben, it looks like the fan cam loose first, then destroyed the belt. No clue why though? I wonder what the clanging noise was when the starter would kick back in? It only did it for like a day and then everything blew apart. I just never had the time to stop and see what was making that noise in the starter.
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Post by gatekeeper on Jul 19, 2012 16:07:29 GMT -5
In your picture it looks like your variator nut came loose. That would explain the noise you heard while running. As it loosened the fan came off and shredded the belt.
I do three, one second pulls on a finger tight nut with my electric impact when installing the variator and clutch nuts and so far I haven't had any problem.
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Post by viral on Jul 19, 2012 16:50:04 GMT -5
I finger tighten the nuts then do 2 two-second pulls on my compressed air impact wrench. Last time I put it together though I did that plus an extra 1 second pull just to make sure it's nice and tight because my clutch nut got loose recently. In general I just get the nut flush with the end of the bolt then give it another quick burst or two.
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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 19, 2012 20:52:02 GMT -5
Well here's another kicker for ya guys. The nuts are still intact and tight. I'll have to borrow my friends impact again to remove them. Tried to turn it with a wrench and the motor just turns over.
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Post by larry001964 on Jul 19, 2012 21:03:00 GMT -5
I had looked for the restriction washer previously. My scoot never had one. I know what your talking about though, it's about 2-3" long and slides over the drive shaft after the variator is installed. Some sort of bushing. Everything was put back the way it came off. I kinda want to agree with inkyben, it looks like the fan cam loose first, then destroyed the belt. No clue why though? I wonder what the clanging noise was when the starter would kick back in? It only did it for like a day and then everything blew apart. I just never had the time to stop and see what was making that noise in the starter. It was the heat, the heat melted the fan, once the fan melted off it left the drive face loose because of the space the plastic took up between the drive face and the three pronged spacer was now gone.. That darn stroker has really made me an expert on this heat related failure in the CTV. Have had the exact same failure twice now, the last was just two days ago.. Whats needed is to replace that darn plastic with a metal fan. |
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Post by wile on Jul 19, 2012 21:14:45 GMT -5
Well here is another possibility, since he put in heavier weights the belt now traveled up higher on the Variator and was hitting the Bendix, that has happened before and the belt broke and wiped out the fan on the Face pulley.
Wile
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Post by larry001964 on Jul 19, 2012 21:20:31 GMT -5
I cant agree with that wile,
I can see the heat damage to the plastic fan in his post, and unfortunately I have two of them sitting on my desk right now that look exactly like his... Most of the time i would agree with you but i can't this time, the failure your describing would have left a groove on one side of the belt hitting the bendix. ( I have experienced that failure too ) .. It's heat related, I'm sure of it.
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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 19, 2012 21:38:21 GMT -5
Tomorrow I will replace the cover, though I don't have a belt yet, and see if I still hear the starter make that clanging noise when it kicks back. If so, then I think maybe it is the weights. But not understanding how 6.5 to 7g weights did that. I've seen up to 9g 16x13 weights on for sale online, and I think they make even heavier ones but I'm not certain. Man I'm confused :/
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Post by skuttadawg on Jul 19, 2012 21:41:12 GMT -5
I have seen covers with slits cut into them to improve air flow
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Post by dharvey27 on Jul 19, 2012 21:50:14 GMT -5
The fan looks like it broke. Have you checked to make sure the 3 clips that go on the variator are still there if they didn't get put in or wore out that will cause the variator to not spin right which in turn generates heat. I have had this problem with melted and broken fans and replaced the variator completely and went with Gates belts and ha vent had anymore trouble. The weights having flat spots is a sign the variator is not rotating correctly though and I would probably go back to the same gram weight you had or lighter
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Post by wile on Jul 19, 2012 22:03:44 GMT -5
Here is another possibility, due to the 1.5 contra springs and the heavier weights will put a lot of pressure on the belt which heated up the Variator enough to start melting the plastic fan and it finally gave way. And I believe I see a FIN missing and some plastic parts around the inner circle of the fan. Then those went flying and probably fly inbetween the teeth of the belt and caused it to break.
How about that Possibility Larry more feasble Since we are guessing at the sh!t.
Wile
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Post by timmyfreak on Jul 19, 2012 22:33:26 GMT -5
Ok guys, heres some more pics to help out with this clueless situation. Here is the vent to the casing  Here is where the vent tube goes, I don't understand why it goes into the frame?  Here is a closer look at that fan  Fan from the side, it definitely got hot  And heres some more pics of the belt    |
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Post by wile on Jul 19, 2012 22:51:55 GMT -5
Yea, it got hotter than sh!t and seperate, I think it was all caused by heat.
Now the Air box tube going into the frame, Is that frame hollow and maybe the air coming in is also being directed to say the carb or something. It could just be a piece welded onto the frame to hold the tubeing in place. The front of the tube I am sure is routed to where it can get some air in.
Wile
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After removing the cover I also found my drive pulley fan fell off and was all melted. 
