No Spark for YY250T

[sinister008]

Greetings, Dawgs!

I purchased a Roketa MC-54 250B from SuperiorPowerSports, and received the Jonway YY250T.
I took everything apart (whittled on the badly stamped plastics), checked and used loctite (or silicone) on all the bolts, screws, connectors and gang plugs.
I then replaced the main fuse (glass) with a good blade fuse, and zip tied all loose wires and hoses to the frame (leaving slack where necessary).
I then thought I was ready to change the fluids, and finish up my PDI...

But I have no spark.

I know it was started (by SPS?), because the plug indicated as much.
So, it sparked at one time, but I am having no luck with it at all...

I double checked all the connectors, and the only one not connected is a 2-wire plug on top of the gas tank (and the front lights).
I connected the rest, because the starter wouldn't function without the accessory fuses and security system plugged up.

There is juice going into the CDI (one black wire), but nothing coming out and getting to the coil.
Is that my problem?

I really need help to troubleshoot this.
I am nearly at my wits end, since this is now my only vehicle and I have yet to even hear it run for the first time.

My apologies for lurking until I ran into a problem, and I hope that someone can help me out.
I tried searching, but it seems as thought the search function is a bit crippled for some reason.

Even the Google search turned up nothing useful.

Please help me, Dawgs.

[WarrenS]

Make sure the emergency switch is on, the side stand is up, and you are holding the brake. Make sure the brake light is lighting up when you squeeze the brake.

[sinister008]

Done, done and done...
Then double and triple checked. ;D

The starter is firing and turning the engine over, it's the spark that I'm not getting.

I used a tester and found "juice" on that one black wire going into the CDI, but nothing coming out.

Do you mean that I should hold the brake while I check the CDI with the tester?

[firefighter617]

Ok i am at a loss. I have no spark. I put a new CDI on and it will crank and crank but no spark. I cleaned up all the grounds and checked all my connections. Anyone had any trouble like this or could tell me something maybe i have overlooked. I have been testing everything with a bulb tester that shows me when i have a ground and power. I am not showing anything from the CDI and no power at the coil. should it not be 12 volts there? THE BLACK/WHITE wire isnt showing 12 volts. Any ideas?

[wile]

Does it have a remote start? If so it may be OFF on the remote and it will not start unless you start it with the remote and shut if off with the remote. With a remote you have to follow a certain procedure otherwise the damn things will not let you start them. One other thing you can do si Pull the KILL SWITCH wire OFF the CDI and see if you then get a SPARK.
Wile

[wile]

When using the remote you have to push lightning bolt twice to start the scoot. 1 Push of the button turns the ignition on, 2nd push of the button starts the scoot.

If you start the scoot without a key you have to use the "alarm unlock" to shut it off sometimes it may take 2 times then you can use key again.

Wile

[sinister008]

I hate to sound to like such a dummy, but which one is the KILL SWITCH wire?
My CDI has two gang connectors, not individual wires.

I'm brand new to scoots, but I'm not a stranger to wrenching and troubleshooting.

I'm pretty sure it isn't the remote start thing, but I'm heading to the garage to give it a try.

Wish me luck...

[leo]

Jun 23, 2012 20:26:17 GMT -5 sinister008 said:

I'm brand new to scoots, but I'm not a stranger to wrenching and troubleshooting.

you will probably need a service manual for your engine type.
this will give you vital info for your engine.
be advised that a name brand manual will not match your scoot, but most of it is useful.

the wiring on my ride was a rats nest.
it was the cause of about 95% of my no starts.
i had enough and simply rewired the thing, doing away with everything i could in the process.

[sinister008]

UPDATE - No dice.

I tried starting with the remote starter, and it turned over but wouldn't start.
Then, I repeated the process while testing the wires going into the coil.
Still no power going into the coil, so (I hate to, but I'm assuming) still no spark.
Then I pulled the 4-wire gang connector out of the CDI, and tried the same process.

Nothing.

[sinister008]

leo, I have a service manual for the same engine you have.
The 244cc CFMoto-type - it's my engine too.

I also have one for the Honda Reflex, since the YY250T is a "Reflex clone".

The problem seems (to me) to be that there is no juice (fire, power whatever you call it) getting to the coil.
It goes into the CDI, but it doesn't come out and travel to the coil, so the coil can't fire the spark plug.

Am I thinking incorrectly?

Anyway, my wiring didn't seem bad at all...
Certainly not bad enough to justify the fact that I still have yet to hear my scooter run.
Ever. Not once.

[wile]

If your CDI looks like this then you can try pulling the KILL SWITCH WIRE off and see if it fires.
Wile

[sinister008]

wile - I was afraid of that. My garage is next door, in the heat...

This wire goes to the kill switch on the handlebars?
Because that switch seems to work perfectly fine.

If in the "kill switch on" position, the starter won't function.

[wile]

That does not make a difference on mine if I flip the kill switch to NO RUN it will crank all day long but the CDI WILL NOT send the juice to the COIL. what it does it grounds it out.
Wile

[waterjunk]

The vog motor will use a different cdi configuration. I'm having a similar issue and am unfamiliar with the cdi.
absolutelyscooterparts.net/catalog/images/linhai260cdi.jpg [/img]
Unfortunately what I don't know is if this cdi works the same way as a g y 6 cdi does. It's possible there is no master kill wire. When I get back to the shop monday hopefully I'll have an answer if you haven't figured it out by then
absolutelyscooterparts.net/catalog/images/linhai260cdi.jpg

[sinister008]

Well wile, what you describe certainly sounds like a possibility.
I'll check that now.

I may be wrong about the kill switch stopping the starter.
If so, I apologize.

I'm just hot, and frustrated.

Thanks to all who have tried to help so far.

waterjunk - No, wile's pic looks like my CDI.
Just a simple back rectangular block with two female plugs.
But thanks nonetheless.

UPDATE - wile... No sir, that changed nothing.

But I did take the time to confirm that, if using the key to start the scoot: The KILL SWITCH "kills" the starter.

[wile]

I believe on yours the GREEN AND WHITE wire on the CDI is the Kill switch. But take a picture of your CDI that would help a lot.
Wile

[wile]

BUMMER!! Well it was a good shot, OH by the way look by your sidestand and see if you see any wires going to it. Some of the 250s have a sidestand Kill Switch as well and work like a float up it lets the juice flow down it doesn't.
Wile

[geometro]

Sounds like the stator and exciter coil, my friend just picked up a new Roketa 50cc and the blue wire on the exciter coil was cut by a bolt under the flywheel, exact symptoms you have, his had 0 miles.
Replaced stator and exciter coil and fired right up.
also check the wiring from the stator and make sure its plugged in 2 wires and a small connector www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_dzpvXuqeo&feature=youtu.be

[leo]

Jun 23, 2012 21:20:37 GMT -5 sinister008 said:

leo, I have a service manual for the same engine you have.
The 244cc CFMoto-type - it's my engine too.

like i mentioned before, a name brand manual will not cover such things as brakes and electrical.
also be aware that you have yourself one of the finest engines to come out of china, they are sturdy and reliable, made of quality parts.
i've only had 2 mechanical issues with my 244 in 9000 miles.

The problem seems (to me) to be that there is no juice (fire, power whatever you call it) getting to the coil.
It goes into the CDI, but it doesn't come out and travel to the coil, so the coil can't fire the spark plug.

Am I thinking incorrectly?

could be a number of things:
1. pulse pickup not working (located inside the engine).
2. CDI not working.
3. wiring issues that is preventing the CDI and/or pickup from working.
4. wiring issues that is preventing the signal from getting to the coil.
ALL of the above is electrical, not mechanical.
your service manual should give you the numbers and procedures for testing the pickup.
the only way i know of to test the CDI is to replace it with a known working one, i always keep a spare and test it once in a while to make sure it works by swapping it out on my bike.

Anyway, my wiring didn't seem bad at all...

mine didn't either . . . when i first got the bike.
but i soon come to realize that the electrical system on my bike was absolute trash, the switches and connectors were especially bad.

Certainly not bad enough to justify the fact that I still have yet to hear my scooter run.
Ever. Not once.

what you are dealing with now is an electrical issue, not a mechanical one.

BTW, a defective ignition switch will cause your symptoms.
shorts between wires will also cause your problems.

[hunter7jl]

You might also have a bad kill switch . I wired so my kill switch is always on on . I know naughty but it gets my scooter working once I replace my bad cdi .

[leo]

Jun 25, 2012 0:05:40 GMT -5 hunter7jl said:

You might also have a bad kill switch . I wired so my kill switch is always on on . I know naughty but it gets my scooter working once I replace my bad cdi .

as an added measure remove the sidestand spring.
this will force you to use the centerstand.

i only use my sidestand to change my oil.
also, you should get into the habit of easing the centerstand up with your foot instead of letting it slam into the frame.
my bikes stands are made to allow me to do that.

[sinister008]

Hello again, dawgs.
I took a few days off of working on the problem, but I'm glad I did.

I have a short, somewhere in the wiring that is preventing the coil from getting juice.
I know this because after I splayed out the wires going to the CDI and the accessory fuses to snap a few pictures, the engine started.
Unfortunately, after only about thirty minutes (and before I could track down the short) the connection was broken and now I'm back to the coil not firing and the spark not sparking...
But at least I'm now armed with the knowledge that it is indeed a short, or a bad wire.

I know it varies alot from bike to bike, but does anyone know where to get a diagram for the wiring on this beast?

The engine sounds good by the way, but the exhaust might get an upgrade.
After I sort out my wiring problem, of course.

Any suggestions on locating my short?
I have a voltmeter, so right now I'm just trying to check for broken connections... but I'm kinda new to electrical issues.

[wile]

Well since you were farting around with the wires go back in there where you were and as your cranking move the wires around and maybe you will get lucky and move the wire that will allow it to start.
Wile

[sinister008]

Ha, ha!!! ;D
That's exactly what I've been trying ever since it cut off.
I guess great minds think alike.

I'm going to start by going after all the gang (and slip) connectors.
But I would swear that I've already done that. (Twice!)

Then I guess I'll try to trace the wiring routes checking ohms, and look for a bad (or nearly cut) wire.
But if someone could point me to a wiring diagram, particularly one for the ignition...
I would have a better idea of where to concentrate.

Because, (and no offense wile) just wiggling wires around hoping to re-create a connection
that I don't know the location of is ultimately pointless.
I need to find it, so it can be fixed.
Location, location, location!

[leo]

Jun 27, 2012 18:52:38 GMT -5 sinister008 said:

I know it varies alot from bike to bike, but does anyone know where to get a diagram for the wiring on this beast?

i've looked and looked and looked for a schematic for my bike and couldn't find any that matched it although some came close.
i finally stopped looking for one and drew my own.
it only covers the barest of essentials, lights, ignition, and charging circuits.

i hate to say it but it's likely you will have many, many, problems with the wiring, switches, and connectors.
i know i did.

[sinister008]

Jun 27, 2012 20:04:33 GMT -5 @leo said:

i finally stopped looking for one and drew my own

I wouldn't know where to begin...

[macktheknife]

There is a wiring diagram for this scooter down to the letter, if you want it PM me. It was engineered by a couple of people who own this scooter.

[wile]

Because, (and no offense wile) just wiggling wires around hoping to re-create a connection
that I don't know the location of is ultimately pointless.
I need to find it, so it can be fixed.
Location, location, location!

HAHA, NO OFFENSE TAKEN MY FRIEND just that if I moved wires around and it started I would probably wiggle and tickle them and pinpoint which set of wires being moved would allow it to start and then trace them back to their origin.
But hey we have a guy that has the exact diagram for your scoot Good Old Macktheknife so I will bet you will have a running scoot in no time.
Wile